# Pro bono bullshit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 9, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132 "2010-09-09T02:43:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/801 "2010-09-22T20:00:59Z")
SFG: I’ve already covered your argument 100 times in this thread. The preamble to the rules (ie, the part you quoted) does not impose a responsibilitý to do pro bono. It just recites the existence of that responsibility. And the onlý place it exists is in the ether of a “moral obligation.” I did not take on that responsibility by agreeing to abide by the rules because the rules don’t impose that responsibility. The language you quoted is just some flowery bullshit language that’s just supposed to remind lawyers of some amorphous ethereal bullshit “moral responsibility” Þhat doesn’t actually exist in the real world. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/802 "2010-09-22T20:07:36Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > A lawyer who quickly reneges his debt > To give his daughter a poor example > I am to this day glad I have not met > Since his face I may feel forced to trample > For one who says “I will” but then does not > A mote of forgiveness is too ample > Confront him and his pants he’ll surely wet > His cowardice displayed by this sample > > If only \*\*Rand \*\*could grow a pair of balls > We could at least respect him as an ass > But no, he merely shames us, one and all > By his protestations that he has gall > Instead he’d rather show he has no class > Indulging in a textual pratfall > > I went with the earlier \*abab abab \*for the octave, a la Giacomo da Lentini, versus the later traditional _abba abba_–I hope you don’t mind. My dear lady, I am in complete awe. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bith_Shuffle)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/803 "2010-09-22T20:07:37Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > SFG: I’ve already covered your argument 100 times in this thread. The preamble to the rules (ie, the part you quoted) does not impose a responsibilitý to do pro bono. It just recites the existence of that responsibility. And the onlý place it exists is in the ether of a “moral obligation.” I did not take on that responsibility by agreeing to abide by the rules because the rules don’t impose that responsibility. > > The language you quoted is just some flowery bullshit language that’s just supposed to remind lawyers of some amorphous ethereal bullshit “moral responsibility” Þhat doesn’t actually exist in the real world. **SFG** : this is too easy! You must reply with two villanelles separated by a WCW-style enjambing poem of about fifteen lines or so. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/804 "2010-09-22T20:50:10Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > SFG: I’ve already covered your argument 100 times in this thread. The preamble to the rules (ie, the part you quoted) does not impose a responsibilitý to do pro bono. It just recites the existence of that responsibility. And the onlý place it exists is in the ether of a “moral obligation.” I did not take on that responsibility by agreeing to abide by the rules because the rules don’t impose that responsibility. > > The language you quoted is just some flowery bullshit language that’s just supposed to remind lawyers of some amorphous ethereal bullshit “moral responsibility” Þhat doesn’t actually exist in the real world. > [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](#): > > **SFG** : this is too easy! You must reply with two villanelles separated by a WCW-style enjambing poem of about fifteen lines or so. Fucking hell. Do you know I had to go \*look up \*what a god damned villanelle is? Okay, fine, here we go: \*\*Rand \*\*is a fucking tard To anyone that’s clear Being human is hard His mind a tub of lard Logic is nowhere near \*\*Rand \*\*is a fucking tard At those been dealt a card Of poverty he jeers Being human is hard His recollection scarred By chugging Everclear \*\*Rand \*\*is a fucking tard He could defend a ward Of state, his daughter’s peer Being human is hard He’d rather do the yard And cower home in fear \*\*Rand \*\*is a fucking tard Being human is hard What may seem to us to be self-evident– to those granted great power responsibility is also given– somehow elude this thing. (I shall not name him man for that implies a level of maturity that he has not attained.) We might wish to offer pity, but that would be neglectful of his own neglect of his own oaths, freely given. The benefit without the payment; A hoarder of justice. Obligations denied He claims it doesn’t count We can all see he lied Relentless as the tide \*\*Rand \*\*runs off at the mouth Obligations denied With any shyster tied In equivocation’s amount We can all see he lied Excuses, they have vied To overtop the mount Obligations denied How long can we abide The way we’re being wound? We can all see he lied His vows he’ll override With a juvenile pout Obligations denied We can all see he lied ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/805 "2010-09-22T20:54:42Z")
Christ on a pneumatic crutch, woman. Don’t you have work to do? ---
**Author:** ![otternell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecc23a/32.png) [@otternell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/otternell)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/806 "2010-09-22T20:56:24Z")
Absolutely beautiful SFG! [standing ovation] ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/807 "2010-09-22T21:00:27Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Christ on a pneumatic crutch, woman. Don’t you have work to do? I did that first. That’s why there was such a gap between **TBS** ’s post and mine–the poem didn’t take \*that \*long to write. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/808 "2010-09-22T21:06:10Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > > [@Bosstone](#): > > > > Christ on a pneumatic crutch, woman. Don’t you have work to do? > > I did that first. That’s why there was such a gap between **TBS** ’s post and mine–the poem didn’t take \*that \*long to write. True, the sonnet looked tougher. I’d say nice work, but you’ve got a big enough head as it is. So I’ll just say it’s about what I’d expect from you. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/809 "2010-09-22T21:35:40Z")
I guess if you are going to completely fail, you may as well do it in verse. For the record, you sÞill haven’t shown where I promised to do pro bono. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/810 "2010-09-22T21:59:55Z")
You’ve already shown that you are impervious to argument. We are simply enjoying a bit of good clean fun, mockery, derision, that sort of thing. You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/811 "2010-09-22T22:15:26Z")
I find it interesting that many of you have called me childish for not living up to “my” responsibility. However, your repeated insistence of “BUT YOU PROMISED” sounds much more childish to me. Adults can read rules and understand what each party to a transaction is obligated to do. Children stamp their feet and shout “BUT YOU PROMISED” when they misunderstand daddy and don’t get their way. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/812 "2010-09-22T22:16:34Z")
Well, as long as we’re going for mockery: There once was a man, Rand Rover Who threw _pro bono_ clients over Learning much to his dismay Sanction was a prison stay Soon was called Hey you, Ben Dover ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/813 "2010-09-22T22:25:43Z")
> [@descamisado](#): > > a man, Rand Rover cite? ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/814 "2010-09-22T22:30:11Z")
I tried but missed the edit window on that one. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bith_Shuffle)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/815 "2010-09-22T22:33:19Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I find it interesting that many of you have called me childish for not living up to “my” responsibility. However, your repeated insistence of “BUT YOU PROMISED” sounds much more childish to me. > > Adults can read rules and understand what each party to a transaction is obligated to do. Children stamp their feet and shout “BUT YOU PROMISED” when they misunderstand daddy and don’t get their way. Adults vary widely in their ability to understand obligations, to confront their own biases, and to just, y’know, _think_. Some adults are paragons of mature behavior and understanding. Others are not. Everyone, including extremely smart people like **SFG** , should be prepared for the event of a person with far less knowledge and experience than they possess displaying greater wisdom and understanding than they have in a particular area [edit: not sure I managed to render this sentence grammatical]. I’m twenty-one. There are surely eleven-year-olds in the world who regularly display greater wisdom and maturity than I do in certain areas of life. Children will stamp their feet and say “but you promised!” when the adults didn’t promise anything. But adults will also promise something but change their minds because they, just, like, did. Adults try to avoid responsibility all the time. It’s part of being human. It’s a _big_ part of being **Rand Rover**. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/816 "2010-09-22T23:00:29Z")
Luci, I’m not impervious to argument. You guys are just on the losing side of this one. Another funny thing about this whole discussion–I’d bet many of the participants haven’t given a single thought in all their lives about whether lawyers were actually required to do pro bono or just had some vague moral obligation to do so. But I mention that I don’t do pro bono and all of a sudden everyone’s an expert on the IL rules and the exact nature of the oath, and they’ve concluded that YOU PROMISED!! ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/817 "2010-09-22T23:40:54Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > … and all of a sudden everyone’s an expert … Yes, including the lawyers. I ask again, have you presented the arguments you’ve been using in this thread to your firm? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/818 "2010-09-22T23:56:20Z")
… and can you point to anyone, on this board of off it, anyone at all, who agrees you’ve “won” even one point in this highly entertaining monkey-howl of a thread? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/819 "2010-09-23T00:08:51Z")
All you’ve done is state baldly that since there is no associated punishment for non-compliance, this renders any professional obligations you might have void. This would included professional obligations that have been explicitly written down by members of your profession. But because they do not treat you like a 2 year old, and do not explicitly state that you’ll get a spanking if you don’t meet your obligations, you conclude that they don’t exist. Now it is time to point and laugh at you. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/820 "2010-09-23T00:22:17Z")
Frank, why would I? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132.md?page=42)