# Pro bono bullshit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 9, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132 "2010-09-09T02:43:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 52
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1021 "2010-09-28T19:02:12Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Sure is takibg you a while to come up with an actual argument there, bub. Perhaps you are incapable of doing so. Post 1014, kid. Scroll up. Is there \*anyone \*who thinks \*\*Randy \*\*will actually try to explain his tipping problem? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1022 "2010-09-28T19:02:54Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > the penalty connection is that an action is not a requirement of a set of rules unless there is some consequence to not doing te action. That explains why it’s not a _requirement_, **you fucking incestuous child rapist**. **Which no one is saying.** We’re saying it’s an **obligation/responsibility**. And an obligation or a responsibility \*does not \*require a concrete penalty for noncompliance. > [@](#): > > I have no actual obligation to tip, but I do it anyway, not because I think I have some moral/ethical obligation to do so, but simply because I think it’s the right thing to do. You don’t think you have an obligation to do the right thing? There’s a fucking shock. > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I share the basic understandings of right and wrong that people in our society have generally internalized. Cite? > [@](#): > > I think it’s because that’s just how that transaction is designed to work–ie, the bulk of a waiter’s income comes from tips, and the tip is just part of what a customer pays to eat at a full-service restaurant. I guess I see some unfairness to violating a waiter’s expectation based on the design of the transaction. And yet, the U.S. justice system is designed to work around pro bono work. Everyone is subject to the justice system, yet many people cannot afford representation. The way our country has chosen to deal with this is to \*obligate \*those licensed to practice law to provide some amount of service every year, or enable others to provide said services, by making it \*explicit \*that they have a \*responsibility \*to do so. Tipping is a broken system, just like pro bono representation is a broken system. But that’s what we’ve got right now. So why do you tip but not provide pro bono work? > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > your use of “obligation” is sloppy The irony–it burrrrrrns. Confidential to **Damuri** : please read that last in a Sindragosa voice. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1023 "2010-09-28T19:30:46Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I share the basic understandings of right and wrong that people in our society have generally internalized. This thread, and many others you have participated in, is pretty strong evidence that you do not. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1024 "2010-09-28T19:52:57Z")
… which, by the way, is a reasonable definition of a sociopath. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1025 "2010-09-28T22:01:49Z")
EL, post 1014 doesn’t contain an argument, it contains an assertion. SFG has come to your defense and posted an argument, which I will respond to later. SFG, I think you would understand what I’m saying if you would look at the difference between what I’m calling an “actual obligation” and a “moral/ethical obligation.” You agree that a restaurant customer is not required by law to tip and has not promised to tip, right? But he should tip, right? So, I would say that you would say that he has no actual obligation to tip but has a moral obligation to do so. Similarly, I have not promised to do pro bono, so I have no actual obligation to do so. so you are just saying I have a moral obligation to do so, right? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1026 "2010-09-28T22:18:18Z")
Colibri–for example? ---
**Author:** ![HowardRoark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6a8cbe/32.png) [@HowardRoark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HowardRoark)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1027 "2010-09-28T23:17:03Z")
RR, you are such a hater! How dare you not want to contribute your labor to our socialistic society! It should not matter that you payed all your hard earned money and devoted years of study to get were you are today! You owe it to the little people who decided to slide thru life on the coattails of producers instead of wanting to better themselves. It’s not their fault! For shame for shame! ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1028 "2010-09-28T23:21:58Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Colibri–for example? To start off with, you differ from most people here in your interpretation of the words “obligation,” “responsibility,” “moral,” and “ethical.” ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1029 "2010-09-29T00:17:21Z")
Colibri, how would you feel if I told you that you have a moral obligation to post nudie pics or send me $50,000? Well, that’s how I feel when people tell me I have a moral obligation to do anything. I very simply recognize that other people’s opinions of what I have a moral responsibility to do means absolutel jack shit. If that makes me different than the majority of people in the society to which I belong, then so be it. HR, thank god you came along. I can tell we will be fast friends. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1030 "2010-09-29T00:36:20Z")
Buh-bye Randi. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1031 "2010-09-29T01:22:21Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Colibri, how would you feel if I told you that you have a moral obligation to post nudie pics or send me $50,000? Well, that’s how I feel when people tell me I have a moral obligation to do anything. I very simply recognize that other people’s opinions of what I have a moral responsibility to do means absolutel jack shit. If that makes me different than the majority of people in the society to which I belong, then so be it. Also, I don’t think any of this shows that I have failed to internalize society’s norms for right and wrong. So, your original claim is bunk. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1032 "2010-09-29T01:23:32Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Buh-bye Randi. Please just sit back and let **me** make fun of **you**. It’s no fun when you step up and fail all over yourself. ---
**Author:** ![pikey\_pete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pikey\_pete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pikey_pete)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1033 "2010-09-29T01:26:12Z")
> [@HowardRoark](#): > > RR, you are such a hater! How dare you not want to contribute your labor to our socialistic society! It should not matter that you payed all your hard earned money and devoted years of study to get were you are today! You owe it to the little people who decided to slide thru life on the coattails of producers instead of wanting to better themselves. It’s not their fault! For shame for shame! yeah HR…what about people like me who cant get hired anymore because of medical conditions? Funny how most people who are on welfare are only there for three years, and most of us non-producers want to work, but the jobs aren’t there or we cant get them for legitimate reasons. get your head out of the lucky and over privileged ass you have it in. You try being a combat photojournalist with a brain tumor and see how well you do financially. fucktard. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1034 "2010-09-29T01:29:07Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I very simply recognize that other people’s opinions of what I have a moral responsibility to do means absolutel jack shit. If that makes me different than the majority of people in the society to which I belong, then so be it. > [@Colibri](#): > > > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > > I share the basic understandings of right and wrong that people in our society have generally internalized. > > This thread, and many others you have participated in, is pretty strong evidence that you do not. Thanks for confirming my statement. You do not share the basic understandings of right and wrong of most people in our society. ---
**Author:** ![HowardRoark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6a8cbe/32.png) [@HowardRoark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HowardRoark)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1035 "2010-09-29T01:30:47Z")
Thanks RR, Your posts helped me to decide if I was even going to join this group. I read so many bigoted posts by people proclaiming tolerance, but only when it fit their own views. And if it can’t, motive quickly trumps fact, and the personal attacks follow. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1036 "2010-09-29T01:33:24Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > > > Buh-bye Randi. > > Please just sit back and let **me** make fun of **you**. No teeth, please. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1037 "2010-09-29T01:34:43Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > > I very simply recognize that other people’s opinions of what I have a moral responsibility to do means absolutel jack shit. If that makes me different than the majority of people in the society to which I belong, then so be it. > > > [@Colibri](#): > > > > This thread, and many others you have participated in, is pretty strong evidence that you do not. > > Thanks for confirming my statement. You do not share the basic understandings of right and wrong of most people in our society. OK, Colibri, I’ve decided you have a moral obligation to send me $50,000. Cash only please. As I’m sure you are aware, you have a responsibility as a member of society to fulfill your moral obligations. If you don’t send me 50 grand, then you obviously don’t understand the meaning of the word “obligation” or “responsibility” and have failed to internalize our society’s norms for right and wrong. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bith_Shuffle)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1038 "2010-09-29T01:37:06Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > [@Colibri](#): > > > > Thanks for confirming my statement. You do not share the basic understandings of right and wrong of most people in our society. > > OK, Colibri, I’ve decided you have a moral obligation to send me $50,000. Cash only please. As I’m sure you are aware, you have a responsibility as a member of society to fulfill your moral obligations. > > If you don’t send me 50 grand, then you obviously don’t understand the meaning of the word “obligation” or “responsibility” and have failed to internalize our society’s norms for right and wrong. Our society has no such norm. There is no misunderstanding on the part of **Colibri**. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1039 "2010-09-29T01:38:06Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > > Please just sit back and let **me** make fun of **you**. > > No teeth, please. Speaking of teeth, 9 out of 10 dentists approve the use of your peener as a tooth flossing device. Good thing your mom’s a dentist or it’d be unanimous. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1040 "2010-09-29T01:39:23Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > > > No teeth, please. > > Speaking of teeth, 9 out of 10 dentists approve the use of your peener as a tooth flossing device. Good thing your mom’s a dentist or it’d be unanimous. Less talk. More tongue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132.md?page=51) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132.md?page=53)