# Pro bono bullshit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 9, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132 "2010-09-09T02:43:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 53
**Author:** ![HowardRoark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6a8cbe/32.png) [@HowardRoark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HowardRoark)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1041 "2010-09-29T01:43:17Z")
Hey PP, sounds like you had a cool career, should have paid well, should have had medical and disability insurance as well. So since you are having bad luck, you feel you have the right go spread it on to me by sticking making me you indentured servant? I’m having a hard enough time making ends meet. I make less than 70k a year, but I’m doing on my own. It took me 47 years to get to this point, but I see every step along my path in life as a choice. Some good, some bad. I pay the price and reap the rewards. That’s what the principals of the country I live in where founded on. The right to pursue happiness, not the right to demand others give it to me at their expense. And I said all this with out attacking you on a personal level. How about you doing the same. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1042 "2010-09-29T01:45:47Z")
> [@HowardRoark](#): > > And I said all this with out attacking you on a personal level. How about you doing the same. This is the Pit. Fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1043 "2010-09-29T01:47:11Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > OK, Colibri, I’ve decided you have a moral obligation to send me $50,000. Cash only please. As I’m sure you are aware, you have a responsibility as a member of society to fulfill your moral obligations. > > If you don’t send me 50 grand, then you obviously don’t understand the meaning of the word “obligation” or “responsibility” and have failed to internalize our society’s norms for right and wrong. Heck, you don’t even understand the meaning of “society.” ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1044 "2010-09-29T01:55:07Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > > OK, Colibri, I’ve decided you have a moral obligation to send me $50,000. Cash only please. As I’m sure you are aware, you have a responsibility as a member of society to fulfill your moral obligations. > > > > If you don’t send me 50 grand, then you obviously don’t understand the meaning of the word “obligation” or “responsibility” and have failed to internalize our society’s norms for right and wrong. > > Heck, you don’t even understand the meaning of “society.” You don’t even understand the meaning of “drive-by poster.” If you have a point to make, please make it. I would have thought that these little drive-by BS comments would be beyond you (that’s more EL and FI’s style), but I guess not. Please explain what you are saying or fucko off already (in the parlance of our times). ---
**Author:** ![HowardRoark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6a8cbe/32.png) [@HowardRoark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HowardRoark)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1045 "2010-09-29T01:58:54Z")
Hey basstone, does Liberal thinking = can’t sound intelligent discussing the facts, then commence name calling and personal attacks? O you protectors of the moral high road! I submit to you overpowering witticism. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1046 "2010-09-29T01:59:10Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > … which, by the way, is a reasonable definition of a sociopath. Some Randians are sociopaths. Others are shirkers. Then again, those 2 characterizations are hardly mutually exclusive. **HowardRoark** : The federal government is basically a large pension plan that happens to have an army. This idea of the Feds being basically a handout operation is fantasy: it has no backing in fact, only excuses. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1047 "2010-09-29T01:59:22Z")
> [@HowardRoark](#): > > I pay the price and reap the rewards. That’s what the principals of the country I live in where founded on. The right to pursue happiness, not the right to demand others give it to me at their expense. This is the mythology libertarians like to spread, when the truth is, the Founders never intended that you would get to keep every damn dollar you are paid: > [@](#): > > “The remissness of our people in paying taxes is highly blameable; the unwillingness to pay them is still more so. I see in some resolutions of town meetings a remonstrance against giving Congress a power to take, as they call it, the people’s money out of their pockets, though only to pay the interest and principal of debts duly contracted. They seem to mistake the point. Money justly due from the people is their creditor’s money and no longer the money of the people, who, if they withhold it, should be compelled to pay by some law.” > > [Benjamin Franklin, 1783](http://books.google.com/books?id=eAIOAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA187&dq=The+remissness+of+our+people+in+paying+taxes+is+highly+blameable&hl=en&ei=KdmSTMLbKsTflgf6o7imCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CFoQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&) ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1048 "2010-09-29T02:00:34Z")
Greetings Howard: > [@HowardRoark](#): > > Liberal thinking = can’t sound intelligent discussing the facts, then commence name calling and personal attacks? O you protectors of the moral high road! I submit to you overpowering witticism. You’re in the Pit, which is the forum for insults. If you want political argument, direct your browser to Great Debates (GD). ETA: Note that direct insults are not permitted in GD: you may attack the argument, but not the person. Furthermore unsubstantiated argument is frowned upon there. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1049 "2010-09-29T02:18:08Z")
> [@HowardRoark](#): > > Hey basstone, does Liberal thinking = can’t sound intelligent discussing the facts, then commence name calling and personal attacks? O you protectors of the moral high road! I submit to you overpowering witticism. I’m truly sorry for you that you need to politicize everything. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1050 "2010-09-29T02:31:02Z")
[quote=“Rand\_Rover, post:1031, topic:553132”] > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Also, I don’t think any of this shows that I have failed to internalize society’s norms for right and wrong. So, your original claim is bunk. Our society has norms for professionalism as well as tipping. We have a Judeo Christian tradition that says, “Why yes indeedy you _are_ in fact your brother’s keeper”. Now it’s understood that obligations to the poor are not boundless and that there are years and situations where it is not prudent for a lawyer to do _pro bono_ work. Adults typically cut each other some slack. But it’s bad form to diss the very idea of morality, which is what **Rand Rover** has done. The Pit is the forum dedicated to gratuitous insult. But part of the human condition is that it can be perfectly logical to be wholly selfish and lacking in empathy. So one can’t attack the _rationality_ of (say) a Moriarty: in practice the only tools society has to address such members are force, law and public censor. Believers have traditionally been wary of atheism, because they feared that all hell would break loose if men were freed of divine punishment. Empirically speaking, those fears were overblown. But I think Randianism is a fair representation of what happens when traditional mores are simply tossed out the window. As I said: it’s an intellectual edifice for shirkers. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1051 "2010-09-29T02:36:53Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > > Our society has norms for professionalism as well as tipping. Is that right? Please name any other profession where people believe the professional is morally obligated to provide free labor to poor people. Thanking you in advance. ---
**Author:** ![HowardRoark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6a8cbe/32.png) [@HowardRoark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HowardRoark)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1052 "2010-09-29T02:38:13Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > > [@HowardRoark](#): > > > > Hey basstone, does Liberal thinking = can’t sound intelligent discussing the facts, then commence name calling and personal attacks? O you protectors of the moral high road! I submit to you overpowering witticism. > > I’m truly sorry for you that you need to politicize everything. I’m truly sorry your a brain dead moronic fuckwad, but there is nothing short of a self-respect transplant that will fix that. ---
**Author:** ![HowardRoark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6a8cbe/32.png) [@HowardRoark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HowardRoark)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1053 "2010-09-29T02:40:28Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > > > Is that right? Please name any other profession where people believe the professional is morally obligated to provide free labor to poor people. Thanking you in advance. Doctors, but we are on our way with Obamacare into forcing them to give up practice. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1054 "2010-09-29T02:42:15Z")
> [@HowardRoark](#): > > > [@Bosstone](#): > > > > I’m truly sorry for you that you need to politicize everything. > > I’m truly sorry your a brain dead moronic fuckwad… Good. Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bith_Shuffle)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1055 "2010-09-29T02:43:12Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > > > Is that right? Please name any other profession where people believe the professional is morally obligated to provide free labor to poor people. Thanking you in advance. Does it even matter if there is any other such profession? If there isn’t, and you’re a lawyer, too bad. If you don’t like it, you can just stay out of law school in your next life. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1056 "2010-09-29T02:43:48Z")
> [@HowardRoark](#): > > > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > > Is that right? Please name any other profession where people believe the professional is morally obligated to provide free labor to poor people. Thanking you in advance. > > Doctors I don’t believe that’s the case. I’ve never heard anyone say boo about doctors being morally obligated to provide health care to poor people. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1057 "2010-09-29T02:44:55Z")
> [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](#): > > > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > > Is that right? Please name any other profession where people believe the professional is morally obligated to provide free labor to poor people. Thanking you in advance. > > Does it even matter if there is any other such profession? If there isn’t, and you’re a lawyer, too bad. If you don’t like it, you can just stay out of law school in your next life. And if you don’t want to send me $50,000, you can just commit suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1058 "2010-09-29T02:46:23Z")
> [@HowardRoark](#): > > > [@Bosstone](#): > > > > I’m truly sorry for you that you need to politicize everything. > > I’m truly sorry your a brain dead moronic fuckwad, but there is nothing short of a self-respect transplant that will fix that. Honestly, if you’re going to insult intelligence, you best not let anything hurt your own credibility. Dumbass. ---
**Author:** ![HowardRoark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6a8cbe/32.png) [@HowardRoark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HowardRoark)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1059 "2010-09-29T02:55:15Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > [@HowardRoark](#): > > > > Doctors > > I don’t believe that’s the case. I’ve never heard anyone say boo about doctors being morally obligated to provide health care to poor people. It’s called Medicare, not paying doctors completely for their labor. And Obamacare will put how many more on the rolls? I’m not saying either is right, just noticing the similarities. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bith_Shuffle)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1060 "2010-09-29T02:57:57Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](#): > > > > Does it even matter if there is any other such profession? If there isn’t, and you’re a lawyer, too bad. If you don’t like it, you can just stay out of law school in your next life. > > And if you don’t want to send me $50,000, you can just commit suicide. Whine, whine. Not all obligations are created equal. The world around me believes I have a moral responsibility not to rape girls that I’m attracted to. I believe the girls around me have a moral obligation to climb into my bunk and ride my meatstick, and to even enjoy doing so. Do you think equally of my own views and the views of our surrounding Western society? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132.md?page=52) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132.md?page=54)