# Pro bono bullshit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 9, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132 "2010-09-09T02:43:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 66
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1301 "2010-10-07T01:48:35Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You think that it means something when you say someone has a moral obligation to do something. And you believe it means nothing. One of us is a [sociopath](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sociopath): > [@](#): > > \*\*so·ci·o·path \*\*[**soh** -see-_uh_-path, **soh** -shee-] \*\*\*–noun \*\*\*\*Psychiatry \*. > > a person, as a psychopathic personality, whose behavior is antisocial and **who lacks a sense of moral responsibility** or social conscience. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1302 "2010-10-07T01:56:38Z")
Oooh, I lack a sense of moral responsibility! OH NOES!! Tell me, what does it mean to have a sense of moral responsibility? I’d like to see you explain it in your own words. Please try to express it in words other than synonyms (e.g., don’t say “it’s knowing what is ethical and having the courage to undertake one’s duty to do that which is ethical” or whatever). ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1303 "2010-10-07T02:27:31Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Oooh, I lack a sense of moral responsibility! OH NOES!! > > Tell me, what does it mean to have a sense of moral responsibility? I’d like to see you explain it in your own words. Please try to express it in words other than synonyms (e.g., don’t say “it’s knowing what is ethical and having the courage to undertake one’s duty to do that which is ethical” or whatever). I encourage everyone _not_ to respond to this pointless exercise, as the requestor has made it pain-stakingly[sic] clear that he respects neither individual opinion nor consensus, including the consensus of his own profession. There is no definition of “moral responsibility” that he will not negate with a needlessly wordy “nuh-uh.” The persistence of this thread serves only as a lubricant to **Rand Rover’s** relentless onanism. I submit that it’s high time he chafed. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1304 "2010-10-07T02:32:20Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > > Oooh, I lack a sense of moral responsibility! OH NOES!! > > > > Tell me, what does it mean to have a sense of moral responsibility? I’d like to see you explain it in your own words. Please try to express it in words other than synonyms (e.g., don’t say “it’s knowing what is ethical and having the courage to undertake one’s duty to do that which is ethical” or whatever). > > I encourage everyone _not_ to respond to this pointless exercise, as the requestor has made it pain-stakingly[sic] clear that he respects neither individual opinion nor consensus, including the consensus of his own profession. There is no definition of “moral responsibility” that he will not negate with a needlessly wordy “nuh-uh.” > > The persistence of this thread serves only as a lubricant to **Rand Rover’s** relentless onanism. I submit that it’s high time he chafed. The responses to this question are for the benefit of the responders, not me. I harbor no fantasy that a “moral realm” of absolute right and wrong exists, or that I can tap into it. Perhaps if people attempt to explain it to me they will realize that as well. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1305 "2010-10-07T02:34:31Z")
I would be happy to indulge you. For $100. In advance. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1306 "2010-10-07T02:41:51Z")
So, I guess Craig’s List closing down its “adult services” wing has been kinda tough for you, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1307 "2010-10-07T02:42:11Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I would be happy to indulge you. For $100. In advance. I’m not interested in paying you to educate yourself. But thanks. Also, I like how you call me a sociopath and bold a part of the definition, completely ignoring the other parts of the definition that are clearly not applicable to me. What a bag of fail you are. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1308 "2010-10-07T02:51:11Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > What a bag of fail you are. That’s Mr. Fail to you, bub. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1309 "2010-10-07T09:37:46Z")
Yup, sure reminds me of that tapir. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1310 "2010-10-07T11:07:17Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Nope. The problem is that I understand it and you don’t. You think that it means something when you say someone has a moral obligation to do something. You think you have the ability to tap into the mind of society or something and **determine objectively what is right and what is wrong**. I simply recognize that no such hive mind exists, and you therefore can’t tap into it. So when you say I have a moral obligation to do something, you are just expressing your preference, which creates no actual obligation on me to do anything. You have [said](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12964257&postcount=1007) [earlier](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12982023&postcount=1200) in this thread that there are at least two actions you would choose to do because “it’s the right thing to do”. How do you know this? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1311 "2010-10-07T12:58:59Z")
I choose to do things that I believe are the right thing to do, but I harbor no misconception that those things are objectively and absolutely the right thing to do. And I think I base my decision on the natural feelings about right and wrong thaty pretty much everybody has. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1312 "2010-10-07T13:58:01Z")
So it should be very simple for you to provide a simple yes or no, to the question “is one of your responsibilities as licensed officer of the court to use your training, experience and skills to provide services in the public interest for which compensation may not be available?” But instead, the weaseling continues. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1313 "2010-10-07T14:01:05Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I choose to do things that I believe are the right thing to do, but I harbor no misconception that those things are objectively and absolutely the right thing to do. And I think I base my decision on the natural feelings about right and wrong thaty pretty much everybody has. Not to be a wise ass, **Rand Rover** , but if there’s one thing you should have learned from this thread without changing your own personal convictions, it is that " the natural feelings about right and wrong" that you hold are **NOT** the ones"[that] pretty much everybody has." ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1314 "2010-10-07T14:24:23Z")
Muffin–more like your dumbassery continues. I’ll answer the question as soon as BT satisfactorily explains what the question is. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1315 "2010-10-07T14:52:29Z")
It is not up to BT, or anyone else here, to explain to you what your governing body means when it sets out your professional responsibilities. That is something that you should already know, seeing as professional responsibility is part of your bar exam, and is part of the continuing education requirement to which you are subject. In short, you are supposed to be able to understand what your governing body means when it says: “It is also the responsibility of those licensed as officers of the court to use their training, experience, and skills to provide services in the public interest for which compensation may not be available.” Since you do not understand what your governing body means, you should speak with senior counsel who have a better understanding than you of what your governing body means. Perhaps that senior counsel who encouraged your section to improve its pro bono participation would be a good place to start. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1316 "2010-10-07T15:12:38Z")
Muffin–I have no problem understanding what the preamble to the rules mean, which is basically “it would be nice if lawyers did pro bono.” ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1317 "2010-10-07T15:14:45Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I choose to do things that I believe are the right thing to do, but I harbor no misconception that those things are objectively and absolutely the right thing to do. And I think I base my decision on the natural feelings about right and wrong thaty pretty much everybody has. These two propositions seem to be self-contradictory. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1318 "2010-10-07T15:17:09Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Muffin–I have no problem understanding what the preamble to the rules mean, which is basically “it would be nice if lawyers did pro bono.” So then you should not have any difficulty at all in providing a simple yes or no to the question: "“is one of your responsibilities as licensed officer of the court to use your training, experience and skills to provide services in the public interest for which compensation may not be available?” Or you could continue to weasel. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1319 "2010-10-07T15:20:27Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Muffin–I have no problem understanding what the preamble to the rules mean, which is basically “it would be nice if lawyers did pro bono.” So, what, _bubeleh, nu_? You can’t be a little nice, once in a while? C’mon, give it a shot, you might like it. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1320 "2010-10-07T15:40:04Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Muffin–more like your dumbassery continues. I’ll answer the question as soon as BT satisfactorily explains what the question is. Who, me? I’ve given up. You’re clearly too intelligent to not know what we’re talking about, so you’re just dicking around at this point. I’m not even sure what question you’re talking about. This thread isn’t just running around in circles any more, it’s positively Möbian. If you don’t mean me when you say BT, ignore this post. I checked the last few pages to see who else you could be referring to and came up with nothing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132.md?page=65) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132.md?page=67)