# Pro bono bullshit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 9, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132 "2010-09-09T02:43:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 68
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1341 "2010-10-07T23:31:15Z")
> [@LurkMeister](#): > > Plus, of course, the fact that there is no mention of any punishment for not doing _pro bono_ work, which negates any possibility of responsibility for doing it in his world. And of course, were the legal profession totally opposed to Pro Bono work, yet gave no tangible punishment for performing it, except the scorn of his peers, Rand Rover would now be boasting of why he insists on doing Pro Bono in despite of the ‘rules’ because he never _promised_ to aspire not to do Pro Bono. Or if he did, it was only perfunctory and non-binding, cos he didn’t mean it at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1342 "2010-10-08T00:13:57Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Now who’s fucking around with words? You act like this is something new. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1343 "2010-10-08T00:23:40Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > SFG, it’s also not against the rules to think that you are a complete waste of skin and are using insults to hide your lack of reasoning ability, which is what a lot of people will do now that you’ve shit your true self everywhere. I think people just don’t like SFG dragging your daughter into this, not because anyone disagrees with what SFG is saying. I’m sure your daughter is great. Why not try to make yourself the sort of father a girl can be proud of. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1344 "2010-10-08T00:32:04Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Muffin–I have no problem understanding what the preamble to the rules mean, which is basically “it would be nice if lawyers did pro bono.” Well, you are paraphrasing away the relevant part of the source of the argument. I understand that there is no penalty but I don’t think anyone imposes a penalty for failure to do pro bono. That doesn’t mean its not a professional responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1345 "2010-10-08T00:34:23Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > I hear that pronouns out of nowhere are useful for communication. Who should apologize to whom? \*\*Rand \*\*should apologize to the world for being a douchebarge? 100% correct there, but it ain’t going to happen. I should apologize for calling \*\*Rand \*\*a baby raper? Ain’t gonna happen, either. I think luci meant you should apologize to Ran’s daughter. Her life is gonna be tough enough as it is. Imagine if Rand Rover was YOUR father, the fact that your dad might buy you a pony isn’t going to make your life any easier. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1346 "2010-10-08T00:36:21Z")
EP–actually, this thread says nothing about libertarianism, but it does illustrate your complete failure at life. Two people have made an agreement that they are happy with, but you don’t like the result, so ýou burst in on the scene and try to coerce them to achieve the result you want. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1347 "2010-10-08T00:42:19Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > EP–actually, this thread says nothing about libertarianism, but it does illustrate your complete failure at life. Two people have made an agreement that they are happy with, but you don’t like the result, so ýou burst in on the scene and try to coerce them to achieve the result you want. From page 1, post #1 > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > So one of the senior partners in my section sent around an email today reminding everyone of the firm’s goal of having every lawyer work 20 pro bono hours each year. Apparently our section wasn’t doing so hot compared to the rest of the firm. Apparently one of the two people, the senior partner, is not so happy with how things are working out in your section, pro bono-wise. And from the initial post, it did not seem that you were too happy about being called on it either. But do continue! Hilarity ensues! ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1348 "2010-10-08T00:42:58Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > SFG–nice job with the cutting and the pasting and the bolding and the underlining and the big-texting, but you failed to include any actualk analysis. You know, the stuff that connects up the definitions and the preamble and your conclusion. I’ve repeated my analysis several times and you’ve addressed it only by calling me a baby raper. Your analysis is basically, “they’re not punishing me for not fulfilling my responsibility to do pro bono so I don’t actually have a responsibility to do pro bono” You might as well just say, they’re not making me do it and it pisses me off that my firm recognizes a professional responsibility that I have chosen to ignore and now in addition to putting in useless hours of facetime, people are going to form opinion of me based on whether or not I am fulfilling a responsibility for which there is no sanction. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1349 "2010-10-08T00:43:35Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > > Muffin–I have no problem understanding what the preamble to the rules mean, which is basically “it would be nice if lawyers did pro bono.” > > Well, you are paraphrasing away the relevant part of the source of the argument. > > I understand that there is no penalty but I don’t think anyone imposes a penalty for failure to do pro bono. That doesn’t mean its not a professional responsibility. Do you really still not understand what I’m saying? I’m only arguing with those who say I have an actual obligation to do pro bono. I’m not arguing with anyone who realizes I don’t have an actual obligation. So, if you just think that it’s a professional responsibility or a moral obligation, then that’s fine, we have no quarrel. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1350 "2010-10-08T00:47:42Z")
EP, the two people are me and the bar association. The senior partner is actually on your side here because he’s trying to use coercion to get his way. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1351 "2010-10-08T01:02:25Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > EP, the two people are me and the bar association. The senior partner is actually on your side here because he’s trying to use coercion to get his way. Well, as you are so fond of saying to others: Get a new job. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1352 "2010-10-08T01:05:50Z")
Ok! I think I get it now. You’re not an “actual” lawyer, right? No “actual” obligations… Did I get it right? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1353 "2010-10-08T01:18:42Z")
Also, sadly, here is where I GO ALL CRAZY AND DON’T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU SHOULD CONTINUE TO BREATHE WHEN THERE ARE HUNGRY CHILDREN AND PARENTS DYING WHILE YOU GET PAID BONUSES FOR BEING A DICK YOU FUCKING HORRIBLE SELFISH… Sorry, folks. I should go get a refreshing adult beverage or three, I need to calm down. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1354 "2010-10-08T01:26:19Z")
> [@Darth\_Nader](#): > > Sorry, folks. I should go get a refreshing adult beverage or three, I need to calm down. So… knock ya self a pro, Slick! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1355 "2010-10-08T01:36:00Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > EP, the two people are me and the bar association. The senior partner is actually on your side here because he’s trying to use coercion to get his way. And sadly, I imagine you also have made an agreement with your employer, whereby you do the tasks that are assigned to you. Of course, you are free to tell the senior partner that you do not have an obligation to do any pro bono work, and will not be doing any. The senior partner is then free to fire your ass. Freedom all around! ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1356 "2010-10-08T01:40:52Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > > EP, the two people are me and the bar association. The senior partner is actually on your side here because he’s trying to use coercion to get his way. > > And sadly, I imagine you also have made an agreement with your employer, whereby you do the tasks that are assigned to you. > > Of course, you are free to tell the senior partner that you do not have an obligation to do any pro bono work, and will not be doing any. > > The senior partner is then free to fire your ass. > > Freedom all around! That’s correct (but “firing” isn’t the right word technically, and pro bono hasn’t been “assigned” to me–the firm just has a goal of all lawyers doing pro bono). So I don’t see what your point is exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1357 "2010-10-08T01:48:40Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > So I don’t see what your point is exactly. Stop whining here like a baby, and go tell the partner you will not be doing pro bono because it is not an obligation with penalties attached. Be a man of your convictions! Are you a powerful tax attorney or a drone? Get in there and tell him tomorrow! ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1358 "2010-10-08T01:50:57Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > > So I don’t see what your point is exactly. > > Stop whining here like a baby, and go tell the partner you will not be doing pro bono because it is not an obligation with penalties attached. > > Be a man of your convictions! Are you a powerful tax attorney or a drone? Get in there and tell him tomorrow! Right, I’m sure any time there is any little thing wrong at your job you go stomping into the shift manager’s office and tell her that the last time you blew her husband in exchange for time off work was the absolutely last time (and you mean it this time). The fact that you are reduced to this line of attack really shows that you’ve got absolutely nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1359 "2010-10-08T02:00:14Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > The fact that you are reduced to this line of attack really shows that you’ve got absolutely nothing. Just because you say so. Like most of the principles you live by. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1360 "2010-10-08T02:09:02Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > > Stop whining here like a baby, and go tell the partner you will not be doing pro bono because it is not an obligation with penalties attached. > > > > Be a man of your convictions! Are you a powerful tax attorney or a drone? Get in there and tell him tomorrow! > > Right, I’m sure any time there is any little thing wrong at your job you go stomping into the shift manager’s office and tell her that the last time you blew her husband in exchange for time off work was the absolutely last time (and you mean it this time). > > The fact that you are reduced to this line of attack really shows that you’ve got absolutely nothing. No attack - I merely suggested you follow your convictions. And glad to see you rise above the temptation to reply with vulgarities. Or not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132.md?page=67) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132.md?page=69)