# Pro bono bullshit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 9, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132 "2010-09-09T02:43:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 81
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1601 "2010-10-12T21:57:22Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > which is simply not true, as I have demonstrated repeatedly. Yeah, just as well as I’ve demonstrated that you’re an incestuous pedophole: by simply asserting it. Statements don’t make facts, **Randy**. > [@](#): > > Well bub Who was keeping that drinking game tally? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1602 "2010-10-12T22:05:54Z")
> [@villa](#): > > I will live with you thinking badly of me. I have multiple times said where I think your oath required you to aspire to do pro bono. I am tired of your hand waving on it, and your claims that you have repeatedly demonstrated the opposite. You haven’t. > > There’s no point in laying it out again. All you will do is the same incorrect analysis, the same hand wave, and the same patently false claim of victory. There’s no point. You aren’t going to change your mind, and every other lawyer in this thread telling you that you are wrong won’t do it. > > So why should I waste my time? Because it may make you look less like a screaming idiot. Then again it may not. In any event, I may go back through this thread later tonight and see if I can find a post by you that actually makes an argument. If so I’ll respond to it. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1603 "2010-10-12T22:09:15Z")
Please SFG. I’ve posted my analysis, you’ve just shrieked. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1604 "2010-10-12T22:16:56Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Also, prr, any time you want a go, I’m here for you. You bring the brick and I’ll bring the skull. FTR, I’m not actually proposing that I would risk an assault charge by bashing your thick skull with a brick until the pus oozes out, simply that your self-interest is the only force that might motivate you–reasoning with you is futile, and arguing with you is frustrating, in that your thick skull seems impervious to argument. The only people who can reach you are those with some power over you, as I might have if I had a brick (and the desire to use it, which I don’t), or if I had the power to hurt you financially, as your senior partner has, or the IL. Bar Association, and those are the people you avoid alerting to your noxious opinions. I’d be ever so impressed if you were to share your views with someone who, if he disagrees with you, had the capacity to do you harm. Then I believe you would present a far more moderated phrasing of of your positions, and quite possibly a whole new position entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1605 "2010-10-12T22:59:21Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > _Pro bono publico_, I suggest this thread be put out of its misery. It’s flailing, clearly suffering, and obviously isn’t going to get any better, but won’t quite die on its own. > > Maybe there are still fans enjoying “Nuh-Uh Times Infinity” by **Randy and the Rovers** in heavy rotation, but for me it’s gone a bit stale. This thread will warm the hearts of those of us who grow old, and brighten the young lives of those future commentators in it yet unborn. > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Again, Muffin, you refuse to define what you mean by “to have a responsibility.” The preamble to the rules (not the rules themselves) very clearly does say that a lawyer has a responsibility to do pro bono. But the rules also very clearly do not say that a lawyer must do pro bono in order to comply with the rules or remain being a lawyer. _sighs_ As a respected lawyer, held up as a shining example of that profession, I _know_ that you would never commingle your clientele’s monies with your own account because that is wrong; and there is an ethics rule forbidding such a thing. However, ( if you did so inadvertently ) you would report yourself immediately, despite the fact there is usually no stated rule that a lawyer is dutybound to report his own ethical lapses. You would do that as a man of honour. Just because there is no specified penalty for non-compliance that doesn’t mean you are not expected by the profession you grace to hold yourself up to their **implicit** rulings. > [@Redpill](#): > > _Morality_ however, cannot be forced. Meh; morality means nothing to me. **Duties** , however, as defined by his bar association and employers, can be enforced. ---
**Author:** ![Redpill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Redpill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redpill)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1606 "2010-10-12T23:15:25Z")
> [@villa](#): > > When you quote someone else, it is considered proper to actually quote them. If you remove words, replace them with an ellipsis. Not to do so is fundamentally dishonest. I will extract whatever I feel you are most wrong about and needs to be talked about. I won’t put ellipsis because you are no Mark Twain. > [@](#): > > Thanks, but I don’t need your permission for anything. But I insist. > [@](#): > > I am more than able to do quality work on things I do not enjoy. Of course you would say that to support this argument, but I don’t believe you. It doesn’t seem probable to me at all. ---
**Author:** ![Redpill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Redpill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redpill)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1607 "2010-10-12T23:22:14Z")
> [@Redpill](#): > > _Morality_ however, cannot be forced. > [@](#): > > Meh; morality means nothing to me. **Duties** , however, as defined by his bar association and employers, can be enforced. You cannot force someone to aspire. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1608 "2010-10-12T23:34:42Z")
> [@Redpill](#): > > > [@villa](#): > > > > When you quote someone else, it is considered proper to actually quote them. If you remove words, replace them with an ellipsis. Not to do so is fundamentally dishonest. > > I will extract whatever I feel you are most wrong about and needs to be talked about. I won’t put ellipsis because you are no Mark Twain. Then you will be warned not to do this again, because this board does not put up with altering quotes in this fashion. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1609 "2010-10-12T23:41:51Z")
> [@Redpill](#): > > You cannot force someone to aspire. If they are incapable of aspiring, then they shouldn’t have sworn to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Redpill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Redpill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redpill)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1610 "2010-10-12T23:57:51Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > [@Redpill](#): > > > > I will extract whatever I feel you are most wrong about and needs to be talked about. I won’t put ellipsis because you are no Mark Twain. > > Then you will be warned not to do this again, because this board does not put up with altering quotes in this fashion. Didn’t alter them, your threats don’t scare me. ---
**Author:** ![Redpill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Redpill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redpill)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1611 "2010-10-12T23:59:47Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > > [@Redpill](#): > > > > You cannot force someone to aspire. > > If they are incapable of aspiring, then they shouldn’t have sworn to do so. Then settle it with him. It doesn’t change my argument. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1612 "2010-10-13T00:05:24Z")
> [@Redpill](#): > > > [@Blalron](#): > > > > If they are incapable of aspiring, then they shouldn’t have sworn to do so. > > Then settle it with him. It doesn’t change my argument. You had an argument? ---
**Author:** ![Redpill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Redpill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redpill)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1613 "2010-10-13T00:08:32Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > > [@Redpill](#): > > > > Then settle it with him. It doesn’t change my argument. > > You had an argument? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1614 "2010-10-13T00:40:21Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > > Also, prr, any time you want a go, I’m here for you. You bring the brick and I’ll bring the skull. > > FTR, I’m not actually proposing that I would risk an assault charge by bashing your thick skull with a brick until the pus oozes out, simply that your self-interest is the only force that might motivate you–reasoning with you is futile, and arguing with you is frustrating, in that your thick skull seems impervious to argument. The only people who can reach you are those with some power over you, as I might have if I had a brick (and the desire to use it, which I don’t), or if I had the power to hurt you financially, as your senior partner has, or the IL. Bar Association, and those are the people you avoid alerting to your noxious opinions. I’d be ever so impressed if you were to share your views with someone who, if he disagrees with you, had the capacity to do you harm. Then I believe you would present a far more moderated phrasing of of your positions, and quite possibly a whole new position entirely. As I’ve already stated, both my bar association and my firm are aware that I haven’t done any pro bono. And if I were to tell either that there is no actual obligation to do pro bono, they would wonder why I was pointing out the obvious. Prr, you are just a petulent child who can’t get their way, so you make impotent threats of violence on the internet (followed up bý more impotent threats that are just more veiled). Keep stamping your feet, kid. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1615 "2010-10-13T00:55:41Z")
Annnnnnnd… cue the retort, cue **Rand Rover** demanding to know why \*you \*get to decide what is and isn’t a moral obligation… Cue the retort, cue **Rand Rover** ’s snide non-sequitur allusions to Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy… Cue the retort, cue **Rand Rov** … hey, anyone else getting serious déjà vu? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1616 "2010-10-13T00:58:50Z")
I wouldn’t have to repeat myself if the idiots would understand the first time. But, no, they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1617 "2010-10-13T01:00:22Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I wouldn’t have to repeat myself if the idiots would understand the first time. Have to? Is there a punishment if you don’t? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1618 "2010-10-13T01:58:02Z")
Alright villa, I looked back at your posts. I found the actual argument you made, and I already completely answered it: > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > [@villa](#): > > > > You swore an oath to act ethically. Acting ethically involves the pro bono obligation. By failing to aspire to provide service, you are acting unethically, and in violation of your oath, which is an oath you freely took. While there is no official sanction for this violation of your oath, it is a reflection on your character. He who steals my purse steals trash, and all that. > > By agreeing to act ethically, I did not agree to do erverything that villa agrees is necessary to act ethically. My bar association is apparently fine with lawyers who don’t aspire to do pro bono because they don’t sanction those lawyers. Therefore, the issue has been decided. You are perfectly free to disagree with them, but your opinion of what it takes to act ethicallý has no effecþ on my reali-life obligations. So, you can stop claiming that I’ve ignored all the arguments people have made in this thread. You made an argument and I answered it. If you want to continue to assert that I swore to aspire to do pro bono then that’s fine, but everyone knows you are completely talking out your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1619 "2010-10-13T02:09:43Z")
Cool–1619… Let’s see if we can hit 2000 by Thursday! I have a hobby. It involves nothing online, and takes up a good part of my free time. No, it’s not masturbation or getting drunk. Find SOMETHING useful to do with your free time, please? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/1620 "2010-10-13T02:15:37Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > > I wouldn’t have to repeat myself if the idiots would understand the first time. > > Have to? Is there a punishment if you don’t? Thread winner. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132.md?page=80) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132.md?page=82)