# Pro-Choice? Catholic? Don't Think So... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 27, 2002, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-catholic-dont-think-so/116266 "2002-06-27T20:56:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RadioWave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/91b2a8/32.png) [@RadioWave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioWave)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-catholic-dont-think-so/116266/21 "2002-06-28T00:23:12Z")
Og eat hamster. Gotcha ya. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-catholic-dont-think-so/116266/22 "2002-06-28T00:26:37Z")
Well, Pro Choice for WHAT? Does this mean I get to choose paper or plastic? Mike or Joel? Apples or Oranges? DON’T KEEP ME IN SUSPENSE!!! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-catholic-dont-think-so/116266/23 "2002-06-28T00:31:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MsWhatsit \* > Best. **happyheathen** thread. Ever. 'Course, **hh** will screw it up when he realizes what happened and comes back to re-post his original “message.” In a just world, this thread stays uncontaminated by the presence of the original poster. Based on the pledgifyin’ spectacle in D.C., we’re several highway maps and a ferry ride away from a just world. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-catholic-dont-think-so/116266/24 "2002-06-28T00:54:00Z")
Assume the OP might have run something like this: > [@](#): > > _originally posted by nobody_ > Whats all this I hear about pro-choice Catholics? Last I checked, the RCC is firmly pro-life. Last I checked, there is technically no such thing as a “cafeteria Catholic” - part of being Catholic is signing on to the whole meal deal. How do pro-choice Catholics reconcile their views on abortion with the Roman Catholic Church’s official position on abortion? If they consciously reject a part of the Church’s teaching, how do they reconcile that with their Catholicism? What would the reaction to that be? Don’t flame him, flame me. Sorry for butting in, **HH** , but you’ve been absent from this thread for 3-4 hours, and I happen to think it’s an interesting topic. ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-catholic-dont-think-so/116266/25 "2002-06-28T01:09:30Z")
Don’t mind me, I’m just passing through. ---
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-catholic-dont-think-so/116266/26 "2002-06-28T01:09:34Z")
Sorry to intrude and ruin this love-fest, but… Our friends at Catholic League are at it again… First the news: > [@](#): > > Edmond Carmody, Bishop of the Corpus Christi Diocese, has banned both the gubernatorial and lieutenant gubernatorial candidates in the Democratic party from speaking at diocesan churches because of their abortion-rights position. The candidates, Tony Sanchez and John Sharp, are Catholics who say they are personally opposed to abortion but nonetheless support a woman’s right to terminate her pregnancy. Not content to leave this alone, the League’s mossback-in-residence adds: > [@](#): > > Moreover, he (Carmody - ed.) has shown that pro-abortion Catholics have no more right to sell themselves as Catholics than do pro-racist Catholics. He then tops even himself by stating that the exclusion of por-choice positions constitutes the Church’s contribution to “Diversity” [http://www.catholicleague.org/02press\_releases/pr0202.htm#TEXAS](http://www.catholicleague.org/02press_releases/pr0202.htm#TEXAS) BISHOP EDMOND CARMODY SHOWS SPUNK Looks like the tent just shrunk in Texas. If you’re “pro-abortion” (can it be made retro-active?), you cannot represent yourself as Catholic. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-catholic-dont-think-so/116266/27 "2002-06-28T01:56:18Z")
Well, really only in Corpus Christi. As far as I know, I can still go into my home church and stump as a Catholic if I was pro-choice. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-catholic-dont-think-so/116266/28 "2002-06-28T03:01:52Z")
Oops. And the thread was going so well before. Too bad it had to be ultimately spoiled by an actual OP. Well, at least I get to show off my sig. What you do think of my sig? I love the Arcata Police log! That’s where I picked up the term “loserific”. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-catholic-dont-think-so/116266/29 "2002-06-28T03:14:56Z")
**HH** , you DO realize that the Catholic League is to the majority of Catholics as PETA is to most vegetarians? :rolleyes: Get a new gimmick. This one’s Abe Simpson. As in OLD! ---
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-catholic-dont-think-so/116266/30 "2002-06-28T03:19:00Z")
Yo - That cute little site became old YEARS ago - DO try to get out more, 'K? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-catholic-dont-think-so/116266/31 "2002-06-28T04:01:34Z")
**Guin** , as loathe as I am to aid **hh** ’s OP…it isn’t the Catholic League banning folks, it was the Bishop of the Corpus Christi Diocese in Texas. I think he’s just getting the report off the Catholic League. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-catholic-dont-think-so/116266/32 "2002-06-28T04:19:32Z")
Huh. So you have a problem with this, **HH**? What is it, exactly? Is your problem mostly with the bishop, or with the League? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-catholic-dont-think-so/116266/33 "2002-06-28T04:23:42Z")
That’s not really new news…far as I can tell, it’s been the position of the Catholic church since Roe v. Wade. Catholic candidates aren’t supposed to be pro-choice, and Catholic voters aren’t supposed to vote for pro-choice candidates. I’m pretty sure there was some Bishops Conference document on this, but I’m tired and don’t really want to look it up right now. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-catholic-dont-think-so/116266/34 "2002-06-28T04:37:38Z")
Of course. However, I don’t see why this is such a shock-the church is against abortion. It’s not a big OH MY GOD!!! ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-catholic-dont-think-so/116266/35 "2002-06-28T04:40:20Z")
Well, I found this, from 1998, “Living the Gospel of Life:A Challenge to American Catholics” > [@](#): > > We urge those Catholic officials who choose to depart from Church teaching on the inviolability of human life in their public life to consider the consequences for their own spiritual well being, as well as the scandal they risk by leading others into serious sin. We call on them to reflect on the grave contradiction of assuming public roles and presenting themselves as credible Catholics when their actions on fundamental issues of human life are not in agreement with Church teaching. No public official, especially one claiming to be a faithful and serious Catholic, can responsibly advocate for or actively support direct attacks on innocent human life. Certainly there are times when it may be impossible to overturn or prevent passage of a law which allows or promotes a moral evil – such as a law allowing the destruction of nascent human life. In such cases, an elected official, whose position in favor of life is known, could seek legitimately to limit the harm done by the law. However, no appeal to policy, procedure, majority will or pluralism ever excuses a public official from defending life to the greatest extent possible. As is true of leaders in all walks of life, no political leader can evade accountability for his or her exercise of power (Evangelium Vitae, 73-4). Those who justify their inaction on the grounds that abortion is the law of the land need to recognize that there is a higher law, the law of God. No human law can validly contradict the Commandment: “Thou shalt not kill.” It’s not what I was looking for, but… ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-catholic-dont-think-so/116266/36 "2002-06-28T04:40:43Z")
Well, it’s not really as cut and dried as that, Captain Amazing. It’s not like abortion is a litmus issue. Catholics are supposed to weigh each factor, like commitment to social justice, etc. and make the decision based on that. Ideally, a candidate should agree with ALL of their positions…pro-life included, but it’s not an absolute killer. At least, not supposed to be, but I’m sure that happens. Of course, I could be completely wrong, but I don’t think I am. ---
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-catholic-dont-think-so/116266/37 "2002-06-28T05:03:38Z")
The latitude within which “Cafeteria Catholics” have been allowed to operate seems to be coming under increasing restriction - when a Bishop forbids major political candidates to speak about ANYTHING in Church facilities, the entire ‘agree-to-disagree’ concept is nullified. The League’s syncophantic rant was just the (expected) icing. The point is: if you are not anti-choice, then: 1. You may not speak at “my” churches (the Bishop) 2. You are not Catholic (League) This goes with the Pope’s (Vicar (look it up) Of Christ) statement a couple of months back that Judges and Lawyers should not process divorces - an attempt to tell pro-divorce Catholics that they were not “real” Catholics. The middle ground seems to be disappearing… never a good sign. ---
**Author:** ![red\_dragon60](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@red\_dragon60](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/red_dragon60)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-catholic-dont-think-so/116266/38 "2002-06-28T05:11:27Z")
Mitten! Oooh, I’m too late. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-catholic-dont-think-so/116266/39 "2002-06-28T05:15:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by happyheathen \* > Yo - > > That cute little site became old YEARS ago - DO try to get out more, 'K? Yo! You talkin’ to **ME?** You just were not grasping my sarcasm. Too bad. Not surprising, though. Let’s put it this way—from [this page of the Arcata Eye Police Log:](http://www.arcataeye.com/police/020604police01.shtml) > [@](#): > > Wednesday, May 15 7:37 a.m. If you wanted to just nosh your bagel and sip your coffee in peace, that privilege was denied you by the mouthy wingnut on I Street. > > 12:06 p.m. > Fun Bunchers, those lovable lugs > Were found with the tracks where they chugs > Their bowl-horns o’ plenty > Two pot-cognoscente > Were cited and stripped of their nugs. > > 1:59 p.m. It was 3 a.m. when an Alliance Road resident was called an unspecified naughty name. The name-caller then pledged to have the puzzled woman arrested, but didn’t say for what. The rest of the night passed uneventfully, but around 6:30 or 7 a.m., she heard someone making phony crow sounds from the other side of a fence. Just when things couldn’t get any weirder, a megaphone-amplified voice from a nearby gas station boomed, “WHAT ARE YOU DOING THERE?” It was the second night in a row this had happened. See? That’s interesting. ---
**Author:** ![JonScribe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3be4f8/32.png) [@JonScribe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonScribe)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-catholic-dont-think-so/116266/40 "2002-06-28T06:57:09Z")
It would probably be unfair of me to ask if pedophile priests who didn’t acknowledged their sin could still call themselves Catholic? Or is there some distinction here that I’m missing? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-catholic-dont-think-so/116266.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-catholic-dont-think-so/116266.md?page=3)