# Pro-choice Senator Tom Daschle may no longer call himself a Catholic **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 17, 2003, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-senator-tom-daschle-may-no-longer-call-himself-a-catholic/169406 "2003-04-17T20:42:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-senator-tom-daschle-may-no-longer-call-himself-a-catholic/169406/1 "2003-04-17T20:42:03Z")
Can you be pro-choice and still be a good Catholic (at all) or are pro-choice Catholics both morally incoherent and lack “a well-formed Christian conscience”? [Tom Daschle’s Duty to Be Morally Coherent](http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/002/559jrrei.asp) [sub] > [@](#): > > TOM DASCHLE may no longer call himself a Catholic. The Senate minority leader and the highest ranking Democrat in Washington has been sent a letter by his home diocese of Sioux Falls, sources in South Dakota have told The Weekly Standard, directing him to remove from his congressional biography and campaign documents all references to his standing as a member of the Catholic Church. … > > This year, on January 16, Bishop Carlson received additional ammunition for his discussions with Daschle when Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger’s office, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, issued in Rome a “Doctrinal Note” on Catholics in political life. “A well-formed Christian conscience,” the note declared, “does not permit one to vote for a political program or an individual law which contradicts the fundamental contents of faith and morals.” [/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-senator-tom-daschle-may-no-longer-call-himself-a-catholic/169406/2 "2003-04-17T21:16:43Z")
isn’t this the same church shuffling child molestors around to different churches? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-senator-tom-daschle-may-no-longer-call-himself-a-catholic/169406/3 "2003-04-17T21:25:17Z")
Well, I guess if you have a private club you get to choose who can be a member. But if the Catholic church excommunicated every pro-abortion Catholic, I’d guess the rolls of that church would be reduced by at least 20% in this country. In Europe, a whole lot more. I’m guessing, just guessing, that there’s a bunch more politiics involved in this than just abortion… ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-senator-tom-daschle-may-no-longer-call-himself-a-catholic/169406/4 "2003-04-17T21:30:51Z")
He wasn’t excommunicated. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-senator-tom-daschle-may-no-longer-call-himself-a-catholic/169406/5 "2003-04-17T21:33:30Z")
Feh. Daschle can call himself whatever he wants, and the Catholic Church can excommunicate him if they want. Go on, try it, you big cowards. It’ll be all kinds of entertaining for us pro-choice atheists. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-senator-tom-daschle-may-no-longer-call-himself-a-catholic/169406/6 "2003-04-17T21:37:27Z")
The Catholic Church, on this issue, refuses to accept that people can have a morally formed conscience, even one formed through years of Catholic education, and come to a position that is not in line with the Church’s. They allow such freedom of intellect on other matters. Yet not on abortion. The Church’s stance on the death penalty, being ardently opposed to it, is just as fundamental and based on the same basic beliefs regarding the sanctity of human life. Will we now see the Church sending such letters to pro-death penalty Republicans and Democrats in Congress? I doubt it. That smacks of some form of ecclesial hypocricy. Pardon my spelling. If the Church chooses to push out any elected official who disagrees with the Church’s positions on issues randomly selected as litmus tests on one’s Catholicity, then the Church may expect to soon find itself in a position of irrelevency. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-senator-tom-daschle-may-no-longer-call-himself-a-catholic/169406/7 "2003-04-17T21:52:44Z")
If a church demands of its lawmaking followers that they make everything they are against prohibited by law, then shouldn’t they have demanded that he make laws against lying and adultery? If not, then what’s the difference? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-senator-tom-daschle-may-no-longer-call-himself-a-catholic/169406/8 "2003-04-17T22:18:03Z")
Well, the Catholic church considers abortion to be murder. Perhaps they consider murder to be more serious of an issue than lying. A better argument for consistancy might be for the Catholic church to apply this abortion doctrine to other Catholic legislators, including those whose last name is Kennedy. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-senator-tom-daschle-may-no-longer-call-himself-a-catholic/169406/9 "2003-04-17T22:36:47Z")
The Catholic Church also considers the death penalty to be murder. To enforce such a stance on abortion and not the death penalty is hypocritical and inconsistent, to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-senator-tom-daschle-may-no-longer-call-himself-a-catholic/169406/10 "2003-04-17T23:23:57Z")
Resolved: The Catholic church is hypocritical and inconsistent. I’d like to see them do to Kennedy what they did to Daschle. Fat chance. Let’s remember, though, that the Catholic church certainly has no monopoly on the h/i dept. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-senator-tom-daschle-may-no-longer-call-himself-a-catholic/169406/11 "2003-04-17T23:36:06Z")
How many Catholic congresscritters supported the Iraq war, against the Pope’s directives? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-senator-tom-daschle-may-no-longer-call-himself-a-catholic/169406/12 "2003-04-17T23:39:24Z")
How many Catholic congresscritters _are_ there, and on which sides? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-senator-tom-daschle-may-no-longer-call-himself-a-catholic/169406/13 "2003-04-18T00:29:23Z")
I don’t think the Bishops have any standing to restrain someone from _writing about himself_ that he is “catholic”. They can kick him out, deny the sacraments and even formally excommunicate, but really it’s not clear if Carlson is attempting to initiate such formal proceedings with Daschle. The most he can do is chase him around the country saying “no, you’re not!” , which is an interesting mental image. However, as to something that was mentioned earlier: Senator Kennedy would be under the authority of the new Archbishop of Boston. Somehow I’m under the impression the Archdiocese of Boston is going for the next few years to be treading veeery, veeery lightly on _anything_ that might rankle the congregants. Until and unless the US Episcopal Conference, or Rome itself, decides to crack down across the board – and (1) it hasn’t happened, (2) we saw how brilliantly USEC was able to efficiently handle the one issue that should have been a no-brainer, (3) Ratzinger’s policy statement is not an order to take specific actions --, it need not affect Teddy if Daschle is in trouble with _his_ Bishop in South Dakota. Until that happens, it could even be that Tom Daschle is welcomed as a Catholic at a diocese in DC, Maryland or Virginia and thus not deprived of participation in his religion. However, if _Bishop Carlson_ is taking such a hard line, HE _should_ be warning **everyone** in SD who is pro-choice, pro-death-penalty or pro-this-war that they’re outside the teachings of the Church. He’s engaging in cheap politics. ---
**Author:** ![TheMemeWarrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TheMemeWarrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheMemeWarrior)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-senator-tom-daschle-may-no-longer-call-himself-a-catholic/169406/14 "2003-04-18T00:31:04Z")
How is he not a member if they don’t go for a full blown excommunication? ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_of\_Sandwhich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/91b2a8/32.png) [@Earl\_of\_Sandwhich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_of_Sandwhich)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-senator-tom-daschle-may-no-longer-call-himself-a-catholic/169406/15 "2003-04-18T00:36:16Z")
Does anyone remember Senator Bob Kerrey being in a similar situation a few years ago? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-senator-tom-daschle-may-no-longer-call-himself-a-catholic/169406/16 "2003-04-18T00:46:09Z")
Resolved: The Catholic church is hypocritical and inconsistent. I’d like to see them do to Kennedy what they did to Daschle. Fat chance. Let’s remember, though, that the Catholic church certainly has no monopoly on the h/i dept. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-senator-tom-daschle-may-no-longer-call-himself-a-catholic/169406/17 "2003-04-18T00:55:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jr8 \* > \*\*How many Catholic congresscritters _are_ there, and on which sides? \*\* Not sure of party breakdown but Adherents lists 150 Catholic congressfolk. > **[Same Day Online Loans | Adherents.com | Loans From $100 - $5000](https://www.adherents.com/online-loans/same-day/)** > > Where Should I Look for Online Loans Same Day? It is not always that easy to find the best places \[…\] ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-senator-tom-daschle-may-no-longer-call-himself-a-catholic/169406/18 "2003-04-18T00:56:15Z")
Oops, read a bit down more, and it appears that about 92 of the Catholics in Congress are Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-senator-tom-daschle-may-no-longer-call-himself-a-catholic/169406/19 "2003-04-18T00:59:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > \*\*Let’s remember, though, that the Catholic church certainly has no monopoly on the h/i dept. \*\* Definitely. In fact, in many ways, I would consider the Catholic Church to be one of the intellectually and doctrinally most constistent and predictible of the world’s religious organizations. But they’re usually a lot more effective and subtle than this outright attack on Daschle. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-senator-tom-daschle-may-no-longer-call-himself-a-catholic/169406/20 "2003-04-18T10:59:44Z")
Does the Catholic hierarchy really expect Catholic legislators to impose Catholic doctrine upon a multi denominational society by force of law? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choice-senator-tom-daschle-may-no-longer-call-himself-a-catholic/169406.md?page=2)