# Pro-Choicers: Abortion For Child's Sexuality **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 21, 2011, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-abortion-for-childs-sexuality/579171 "2011-04-21T02:38:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-abortion-for-childs-sexuality/579171/141 "2011-04-21T17:15:04Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > That’s the way I see it. > I don’t see how. Not getting something you simply want, but don’t need and are not entitled to does not hurt you. Perhaps that is true on the planet Vulcan, but here on earth we are human, and we do have emotions, and we do have feelings even about a fetus that we hope will be a baby and be our child. Most men, if they want children, would be emotionally upset if their wife decided, unilaterally, to get an abortion. Maybe you wouldn’t, but I don’t know how many times you need to be told that you seem to have a different world view than most people. So let’s just say that you’re unique and not generalize your emotional outlook (or lack thereof) to the rest of the human race. That is not to say I think the man should have veto power over any abortion. But it sure could affect the way he feels about his wife. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-abortion-for-childs-sexuality/579171/142 "2011-04-21T17:38:28Z")
If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrement - Florynce Kennedy In the infamous Baby M case, the NJ Superior Court weighed the donation of sperm, payment of money, and anticipation of a baby vs. pregnancy, childbirth and breastfeeding. Which one do you think gives a greater attachment to a child? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-abortion-for-childs-sexuality/579171/143 "2011-04-21T17:42:24Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrement - Florynce Kennedy That’s a cute bumper sticker, but hardly a meaningful argument in a debate. > [@](#): > > In the infamous Baby M case, the NJ Superior Court weighed the donation of sperm, payment of money, and anticipation of a baby vs. pregnancy, childbirth and breastfeeding. Which one do you think gives a greater attachment to a child? Not sure to whom you are addressing this, or how it fits into any of the arguments being made. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-abortion-for-childs-sexuality/579171/144 "2011-04-21T17:43:09Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrement - Florynce Kennedy No, if men could get pregnant, they would be women. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-abortion-for-childs-sexuality/579171/145 "2011-04-21T17:44:27Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrement - Florynce Kennedy Or get you executed. Society isn’t very compassionate towards men. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-abortion-for-childs-sexuality/579171/146 "2011-04-21T17:52:07Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > YMMV, but my feelings on letting the will of society over ride a woman’s choice are on par with letting the supposed will of God dictate it…or the will of any other institution. It all works out to the same thing…that her choice becomes conditional. > > -XT I’m not real big on letting “the will of society” override a woman’s choice either, but almost all pro-choicers do put limits on abortion when it comes to how late in pregnancy we allow elective abortions to occur. And I think both you and I are in that category. But as for issues such as sex selection and the like, I don’t see where “the will of society” should enter the abortion discussion. I see a slope there, and it’s pretty slippery. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-abortion-for-childs-sexuality/579171/147 "2011-04-21T17:55:37Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I’m not real big on letting “the will of society” override a woman’s choice either, but almost all pro-choicers do put limits on abortion when it comes to how late in pregnancy we allow elective abortions to occur. And I think both you and I are in that category. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I agree…but I’d say that the woman made her choice in the first trimester. Unless something comes up medically (a threat to the mothers life, for instance) she has to abide by the choice she made at that point. That’s really the more difficult question that the OP’s. > [@](#): > > But as for issues such as sex selection and the like, I don’t see where “the will of society” should enter the abortion discussion. I see a slope there, and it’s pretty slippery. Agreed. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-abortion-for-childs-sexuality/579171/148 "2011-04-21T17:56:56Z")
NM ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-abortion-for-childs-sexuality/579171/149 "2011-04-21T19:26:15Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > No, if men could get pregnant, they would be women. You stole my bit. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-abortion-for-childs-sexuality/579171/150 "2011-04-21T19:30:45Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > You stole my bit. It’s not my fault you never sweep your place for surveillance equipment, your computer for spyware, or your medulla oblongata for nanites. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-abortion-for-childs-sexuality/579171/151 "2011-04-21T21:08:03Z")
If we (hypothetically) can identify a gay gene, can (hypothetically) be a dominant gene guaranteeing homosexuality and we (hypothetically) put limits on aborting for this very reason, we have definitely opened the door for some legal mayhem, no? Say a very conservative fundamentalist woman is pregnant and finds out about the fetus having this gene. She later decides to have an abortion but claims it’s for different reasons (financial, inconvenient, emotional distress, whatever). I’d imagine that if a husband/boyfriend still wanted this baby, gay or not, he’d try for an injunction. Then here comes the parade of “experts” for both sides drawing crowds, controversy, rights groups, religious groups-- all holy hell. For possibilities like this one, I see no reason for a woman to state any reason for the abortion, and no limits of reason should be made on abortion. You’re still a shit head for considering abortion solely based on the hypothetical gay gene, but the woman’s personal needs are just that. Personal. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-abortion-for-childs-sexuality/579171/152 "2011-04-21T21:57:11Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Pregnancy is entirely different from ejaculation. I should hope so. If ejaculation took nine months we’d all be walking around with catheters and buckets. ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-abortion-for-childs-sexuality/579171/153 "2011-04-21T22:17:02Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > If (hypotheically) it became possible to detect the “homosexual” gene before birth, would pro-choicers of this board tolerate fetuses being aborted _solely_ for that reason? I’ve only read the first page, so I apologize if this has been brought up, but how early can this be detected? Two weeks in? No problem. 8 months in? I’m against it. (That leaves a lot of middle ground, doesn’t it?) But this would be a factor for me. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-abortion-for-childs-sexuality/579171/154 "2011-04-21T22:22:44Z")
Yes, let them abort for any reason they choose, it’s their bodies. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-abortion-for-childs-sexuality/579171/155 "2011-04-22T01:00:11Z")
No, it creeps me out. It may involve killing someone. We ought not to do such a thing without good reason and much reflection. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-abortion-for-childs-sexuality/579171/156 "2011-04-22T02:18:19Z")
> [@willthekittensurvive](#): > > Qin… > > What if there was a test that could tell if a foetus would become a Paedophile? (No fighting the hypothetical), genetically only way the kid could find arousal would be by molesting younger children, no cure, no treatment. > > What would you do? He should be raised to be told constantly that pedophilia is wrong. Similarly some people have murderous thoughts but he doesn’t have to act on it. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Nonsense. Do recall the “The only moral abortion is my abortion” phenomenon; they don’t mind getting an abortion for _themselves_. They clearly don’t actually mean that nonsense about regarding abortion as murder; that’s just an excuse for their persecution of women. They’d come up with some justification for aborting homosexual fetuses, I guarantee it. Some nonsense about how they are saving the “baby” from a life of sin that will send him to Hell, and are heroically taking the guilt upon themselves in an act of noble self sacrifice, perhaps. > [@Meatros](#): > > I suppose it depends on what you mean by ‘tolerate’. Legally, yes, of course. > > On a personal level, if my friend disclosed that as a reason for their abortion I would no longer be their friend. > > I think this would be a more difficult dilemma for the fundamentalist christian, as it could potentially effect a number of their beliefs. > > - They would have to admit that homosexuals did not chose to be gay. > - They would probably deem this as an exception to abortion (after all, the child would be an abomination - perhaps the ‘choice’ now lay with the parents?). Most Evangelicals and fundamentalists try to convince homosexuals that their behaviour is wrong and even if it is genetic they can control their thoughts and acts. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-abortion-for-childs-sexuality/579171/157 "2011-04-22T02:47:42Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Most Evangelicals and fundamentalists try to convince homosexuals that their behaviour is wrong and even if it is genetic they can control their thoughts and acts. A lot of evangelicals and fundamentalists also disown their children and thrown them out of their homes when they find out they can’t pray or beat the gay out of their kids. I have very, very little doubt that most of these people would suddenly find an exception to their stance on abortion, if they found out that their kid was genetically inclined to homosexuality. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-abortion-for-childs-sexuality/579171/158 "2011-04-22T02:53:14Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > A lot of evangelicals and fundamentalists also disown their children and thrown them out of their homes when they find out they can’t pray or beat the gay out of their kids. I have very, very little doubt that most of these people would suddenly find an exception to their stance on abortion, if they found out that their kid was genetically inclined to homosexuality. Murder (and regardless of what you think, that’s what they think)=/= disowning. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-abortion-for-childs-sexuality/579171/159 "2011-04-22T03:26:22Z")
Plenty of parents have murdered their gay children. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-abortion-for-childs-sexuality/579171/160 "2011-04-22T03:40:59Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > He should be raised to be told constantly that pedophilia is wrong. Similarly some people have murderous thoughts but he doesn’t have to act on it. Sometimes people do things they’re constantly told not to do. > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Murder (and regardless of what you think, that’s what they think)=/= disowning. I think some people here are probably overestimating how many pro-life parents would abort a potentially gay child. But it would definitely happen. If you know people, you know they’re very good at making exceptions to their own rules when it suits them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-abortion-for-childs-sexuality/579171.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-abortion-for-childs-sexuality/579171.md?page=9)