# Pro-choicers: is there any point in a pregnancy when the woman should no longer abort? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 21, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-is-there-any-point-in-a-pregnancy-when-the-woman-should-no-longer-abort/544025 "2010-06-21T19:29:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-is-there-any-point-in-a-pregnancy-when-the-woman-should-no-longer-abort/544025/81 "2010-06-23T01:34:11Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > So some random doctor, who will be subject to no pressure or regulation of course, gets to recommend which of the mother or fetus gets to live or die, and the mother has no say at all as to what the doctor’s role is, nor does the rest of society since our interests are proxied through the doctor. > > OK. Good to know 🙂 Do you have a better suggestion? ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-is-there-any-point-in-a-pregnancy-when-the-woman-should-no-longer-abort/544025/82 "2010-06-23T01:35:54Z")
> [@Eureka](#): > > Do you have a better suggestion? Yes, I think I about covered it in some detail upthread. Thanks for asking! ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-is-there-any-point-in-a-pregnancy-when-the-woman-should-no-longer-abort/544025/83 "2010-06-23T02:41:40Z")
There’s probably no way to ask these questions without sounding provocative, so I’ll just ask them. Questions for that 20% who chose the first option: Are any of you mothers? Or fathers? Or did you ever know anyone who gave birth, like close enough to hang out with them the last month of pregnancy? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-is-there-any-point-in-a-pregnancy-when-the-woman-should-no-longer-abort/544025/84 "2010-06-23T02:45:13Z")
Hmm…not quite the post I was hoping for from a poster named Plan B… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-is-there-any-point-in-a-pregnancy-when-the-woman-should-no-longer-abort/544025/85 "2010-06-23T02:59:21Z")
> [@Plan\_B](#): > > There’s probably no way to ask these questions without sounding provocative, so I’ll just ask them. > > Questions for that 20% who chose the first option: Are any of you mothers? Or fathers? Or did you ever know anyone who gave birth, like close enough to hang out with them the last month of pregnancy? That would be me. ---
**Author:** ![Essured](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Essured](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Essured)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-is-there-any-point-in-a-pregnancy-when-the-woman-should-no-longer-abort/544025/86 "2010-06-23T05:43:14Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I hesitate to say “always” or “never” in conjunction with any medical question. It’s usually a sure sign that that answer selection on the test is wrong! However, there are certainly conceivable medical conditions in which inducing labor and delivering vaginally is not the safest choice for the mother or fetus. In such a case with a viable fetus that needs to be removed to save its life or its mother’s, they will do a c-section, rather than an abortion. Thanks for that info. And sorry about my sloppy phrasing - I agree “always” and “never” have little value in most medical discussions > [@](#): > > This was the case with my second child; I’m sorry to hear you had to face that choice, but glad to hear things are going so well for your child. I can’t imagine the stress and worry you were under for a long period of time! I was also very pleasantly surprised at the options and caring that was given to you by the medical staff at a time like that. It’s good to hear those stories, as often only the bad caring is heard about. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-is-there-any-point-in-a-pregnancy-when-the-woman-should-no-longer-abort/544025/87 "2010-06-23T13:32:01Z")
I’ve often wondered why all abortions aren’t performed by breaking the amniotic sac and inducing labor. If the fetus lives, it lives; if it dies, it dies. No woman should be forced to be a life support system if she doesn’t want to be one. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-is-there-any-point-in-a-pregnancy-when-the-woman-should-no-longer-abort/544025/88 "2010-06-23T14:03:12Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I’ve often wondered why all abortions aren’t performed by breaking the amniotic sac and inducing labor. That doesn’t always work early on. The sac may repair the tear, or it may get infected without evacuating. And you’d still have to dilate the cervix to get a tool up in there to tear the sac - remember that we’re talking about early pregnancy when the cervix is tightly closed and plugged up with mucus. Also, cervical dilation to spontaneous delivery width takes a long time, and requires dilating the cervix wide open with powerful drugs, so for an early procedure, it’s easier on the woman’s body and carries less risk of uterine rupture to dilate the cervix just a little bit, insert a scrapey thingy to release the endometrium and suck the uterine contents out through the small hole. For a late term abortion (which, again, is hardly ever done, and I really mean hardly EVER), the cervix has to be opened further, but again, not as far as it does for a vaginal birth. The less cervical opening, the fewer the risks. (What I don’t understand is why women with a fetal death are often forced to carry the dead fetus for a while and then are induced to deliver a dead fetus vaginally. Why not do a D&X and get it over with? But I expect I’ll learn the answer to that next semester during my OB rotation. And I suspect it may not be a medical reason, but a political one, due to the “partial birth abortion” drama.) ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-is-there-any-point-in-a-pregnancy-when-the-woman-should-no-longer-abort/544025/89 "2010-06-23T14:16:19Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > Prohibition of any vice is a fools errand. Work to reduce it, sure, eliminate it, no. Instead, accompany the reduction with a plan to manage the babies that will be born the best as possible. I look forward to your proposals to sensibly regulate child prostitution. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-is-there-any-point-in-a-pregnancy-when-the-woman-should-no-longer-abort/544025/90 "2010-06-23T14:38:54Z")
Duplicate post. Look below. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-is-there-any-point-in-a-pregnancy-when-the-woman-should-no-longer-abort/544025/91 "2010-06-23T14:41:45Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > …you should be forced to have a baby you ultimately decided you didn’t want? It’s an imperfect opinion, to be sure, but really, where do you draw the line? Do you give the mom 39 weeks to waffle back and forth before finally saying “nope, don’t want it”? And by the way, I still see that no one at all has chosen the 9 month option so there MUST be some point at which it becomes too late to abort, right? Unless you’re really willing to draw the line between Monday: legal abortion. Tuesday: infanticide? I think 8 months is plenty of time to figure this whole thing out. After 8 months aborting the child isn’t really much different from actually giving birth, so why not go ahead and do that? No one says anything about keeping the baby. There’s always adoption. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-is-there-any-point-in-a-pregnancy-when-the-woman-should-no-longer-abort/544025/92 "2010-06-23T14:49:02Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I’ve often wondered why all abortions aren’t performed by breaking the amniotic sac and inducing labor. If the fetus lives, it lives; if it dies, it dies. No woman should be forced to be a life support system if she doesn’t want to be one. I have ethical qualms about this, too: birth, even fatal birth, is pretty traumatic, and letting a premature infant lay there and die to avoid killing it seems kinda Pontious Pilate to me. I mean, it’s like when someone decides they don’t want a dog anymore so they dump it on the side of the road to “give it a chance”. That makes the person dumping the dog feel better, but from the now-doomed-to-get-hit-or-starve dog’s point of view, it would have been better to take it out back and just put a bullet in its head. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-is-there-any-point-in-a-pregnancy-when-the-woman-should-no-longer-abort/544025/93 "2010-06-23T18:47:55Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I have ethical qualms about this, too: birth, even fatal birth, is pretty traumatic, and letting a premature infant lay there and die to avoid killing it seems kinda Pontious Pilate to me. I’m not aware of either the historical Pilate nor the fictionalized New Testament version engaging in a Slaughter of the Innocents. Do you mean Herod? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-is-there-any-point-in-a-pregnancy-when-the-woman-should-no-longer-abort/544025/94 "2010-06-23T18:50:03Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > It’s an imperfect opinion, to be sure, but really, where do you draw the line? Do you give the mom 39 weeks to waffle back and forth before finally saying “nope, don’t want it”? And by the way, I still see that no one at all has chosen the 9 month option so there MUST be some point at which it becomes too late to abort, right? That doesn’t follow. As of this writing, 29 respondents (20%) have chosen the option “Abortion is permissible any time before birth.” ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-is-there-any-point-in-a-pregnancy-when-the-woman-should-no-longer-abort/544025/95 "2010-06-23T19:00:32Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I’m not aware of either the historical Pilate nor the fictionalized New Testament version engaging in a Slaughter of the Innocents. Do you mean Herod? I think she meant the “Wash my hands of this” bit. That is, just take the fetus out and let it die on its own, instead of killing it quickly with the scrapey thing (I really must learn the real term) or vacuum. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-is-there-any-point-in-a-pregnancy-when-the-woman-should-no-longer-abort/544025/96 "2010-06-23T19:07:52Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I think she meant the “Wash my hands of this” bit. :smack: > [@](#): > > That is, just take the fetus out and let it die on its own, instead of killing it quickly with the scrapey thing (I really must learn the real term) or vacuum. It’s the scrapey thing just the curette? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-is-there-any-point-in-a-pregnancy-when-the-woman-should-no-longer-abort/544025/97 "2010-06-23T19:12:26Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > It’s the scrapey thing just the curette? CURETTE! :smack: Thank you! Obviously, I must spend less time on the Dope and more time with my nursing books, or my brain will turn to mush before the fall semester begins… ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-is-there-any-point-in-a-pregnancy-when-the-woman-should-no-longer-abort/544025/98 "2010-06-23T19:25:20Z")
I would not have an abortion after around 20 weeks, probably only for health reasons, but I don’t think it’s my business to decide for anyone else. It’s between a pregnant woman and her doctor until she delivers. That’s the difference between abortion and infanticide. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-is-there-any-point-in-a-pregnancy-when-the-woman-should-no-longer-abort/544025/99 "2010-06-23T19:30:48Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > CURETTE! :smack: Thank you! > > Obviously, I must spend less time on the Dope and more time with my nursing books, or my brain will turn to mush before the fall semester begins… If you’d written out _dilation & curettage_, or even _d & c_, it’d have been obvious. Anyway, you’re allowed fourteen brain farts per week by board rules. Note, for instance, my misspelling of _isn’t_ as _it’s_. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-is-there-any-point-in-a-pregnancy-when-the-woman-should-no-longer-abort/544025/100 "2010-06-23T21:34:15Z")
I did, in fact, mean the “wash my hands” thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-is-there-any-point-in-a-pregnancy-when-the-woman-should-no-longer-abort/544025.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-choicers-is-there-any-point-in-a-pregnancy-when-the-woman-should-no-longer-abort/544025.md?page=6)