# Pro-Con: Clinton vs. Trump **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 4, 2016, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844 "2016-05-04T02:31:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/21 "2016-05-04T13:59:12Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Science has always held male and female to separated by gametes and chromosomes. Sadly, the SJWs and their toadies in the media have tried to hijack the medical voices, but not everyone is buying it. You’re wrong about the science and about the reasons for the wider acceptance of transgendered people. And there’s plenty of actual, supported, uncoerced medical evidence to prove it, despite your handwaving. > [@](#): > > A cross dresser is a cross dresser. But a transvestite is not the same as a transgendered person. Plenty of “cross-dressers” aren’t transgender, and vice versa. > [@](#): > > A male a male, a female a female,. And yet there are other option - _rarer_ options, yes, but not ones drummed up by “SJWs” (seriously, who even uses “SJW” as an insult?). I’d point you towards **Una** ’s excellent thread on the subject but I’m not convinced it would help, except perhaps to end this hijack of your own thread. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/22 "2016-05-04T14:00:46Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Science has always held male and female to separated by gametes and chromosomes. Sadly, the SJWs and their toadies in the media have tried to hijack the medical voices, but not everyone is buying it. A cross dresser is a cross dresser. A male a male, a female a female,. You really sound no different from those in the past who decried interracial marriage as akin to bestiality, and homosexuality as unnatural perversion. Just because it’s a thing that seems new and weird to you, just as those may have seemed new and weird to people in the past, doesn’t mean that it’s “hijacking the medical voices” or other bigoted nonsense to recognize it for what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/23 "2016-05-04T14:51:03Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Science has always held male and female to separated by gametes and chromosomes. Sadly, the SJWs and their toadies in the media have tried to hijack the medical voices, but not everyone is buying it. A cross dresser is a cross dresser. A male a male, a female a female,. Why don’t you just say “I don’t know anything about it and I don’t want to learn?”. Why pretend like you have an opinion based on an understanding of the research on the topic? You literally know nothing about the topic as evidenced by what you write, but you hold a strong enough opinion of them and their experience to decide on how these people should be treated politically. How awful for them. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/24 "2016-05-04T15:26:04Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > More specifically, Trump doesn’t appear to give enough thought to what he says or does. Sooner or later, some other country is going to act provocatively; there’ll be a miscommunication, a border dispute, a foolish choice, an insulting show of force; something, anything. So how would Trump react? Is _“without thinking”_ the answer? How about _“without listening to any advisors”_, maybe? Will it just be a steaming platter of hostility, with a side order of making-it-up-as-he-goes-along? ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/25 "2016-05-04T15:46:53Z")
Trump pluses: ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/26 "2016-05-04T15:50:49Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Now that the nominees are basically decided, what are your pluses and minuses of each nominee? Why would you vote for one and encourage a person to vote for one? I’ll be voting for Clinton but its not a slam dunk. I align with Clinton on almost every issue other than guns; She is undisputedly competent and knowledgeable; She has developed a good international reputation due to her experience as secretary of state; but… Her ties with big money donors is disturbing. Her corporatism is discouraging/ Trump is what is behind curtain number 1. Who knows WTF he is but its a pretty good guess that he is not going to be less in the corner of monied interests than Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/27 "2016-05-04T15:57:59Z")
Clinton vs Trump Trust: Trump, very slight edge. He’s a business/corporate liar not a political liar. Foreign and Domestic Policy: Trump, very slight edge. Hillary knows a lot about current policy and is thus entrenched in it. At lease Trump offers a fresh, yet mostly unclear, perspective. Strengths: Clinton: Experience with the status-quo. Experienced statesman (political liar). Trump: Little experience with the status-quo. Not a statesman (corporate liar). It’s a stark case of the status-quo versus something completely different and unknown. I think the status-quo wins, but maybe Trump can challenge enough to change it a bit, kinda like Sanders is still doing. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/28 "2016-05-04T16:13:48Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Trump is what is behind curtain number 1. > Who knows WTF he is but its a pretty good guess that he is not going to be less in the corner of monied interests than Hillary. Well, he likes to pretend that he is more loyal to the working class than his own class, but who knows. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/29 "2016-05-04T16:14:12Z")
Pro-Hillary She will be a very hard worker as evidenced by her Senate and Cabinet careers. She’s on the right side of LGBTQ issues. She’ll continue the policies of Obama and build on them. For the most part, right on environmental/climate issues. Good record on civil rights issues. Very knowledgeable on foreign affairs. On the right side on immigration and refugees. She has no illusions about being a post-partisan president. Will make better Supreme Court picks than any Republican. Anti-Hillary Too cozy with Wall Street. Too hawkish. Not an inspirational leader. Not liberal enough. Pro-Trump Might spell death of Republican Party. Will drive down downballot Republican votes. Anti-Trump Racist Conspiracy theorist. Birther. Xenophobe. Liar. Philanderer. Misogynist. Islamophobe. Isolationist. Climate Change denier. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/30 "2016-05-04T16:44:38Z")
I’d be prepared to assume that most if not all of Trump’s bombast is merely a product of campaigning. I think he should be judged on his record as an elected official. Or if not that, his service in cabinet. Or if not that, his time in the judiciary. Or if not that, his time in the military. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/31 "2016-05-04T16:46:25Z")
Things I prefer about Clinton: she prefers a more progressive tax structure, is probably going to be better on preserving the welfare state, and she isn’t a climate change denier. Things I prefer about Trump: he wants to limit mass immigration, especially of Muslims; general contempt for political correctness; he’s going to be better on maintaining good relations with Russia and more generally stopping the insane (bipartisan) “Freedom Agenda” foreign policy; he wants to end NATO; he’s going to install a more protectionist economic policy; and there’s at least a chance he would make some efforts to restrict abortion. (I liked his comments about some legal punishment for mothers who choose to abort, although he retracted that). Plus, personal charisma. Honestly, it’s extremely unlikely I’m voting for either of them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/32 "2016-05-04T16:57:55Z")
Another con, and a blood-boiler of one: Clinton was involved in negotiating the TPP, and in keeping the negotiations secret. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/33 "2016-05-04T17:09:37Z")
Pros: Clinton - not Trump Trump - not Emperor Palpatine Cons: Clinton - Not Sanders Trump - I don’t have the time or space ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/34 "2016-05-04T17:23:15Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’d be prepared to assume that most if not all of Trump’s bombast is merely a product of campaigning. I think he should be judged on his record as an elected official. > > Or if not that, his service in cabinet. > > Or if not that, his time in the judiciary. > > Or if not that, his time in the military. :: golf clap :: ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/35 "2016-05-04T17:27:55Z")
Cons: Trump Supports war on Isis everywhere Big spender/ loves social security and military Inspires hatred / riles up a crowd Crybaby Protectionist/ border closer Favors loose monetary policy Torturer Pros: Trump Decent on taxes Decent on Russia/NATO (wavering though) Unable to service party hacks Improves public perception of democracy and centralization (it can backfire) Vague understanding that loose monetary policy creates bubbles (yet supports?) Will be hated Cons: Clinton Bigtime warmonger Insanely apocalyptic policy on Russia/NATO Husband was torturer, so prob her too Religious fanatic Big spender Bad taxer (recent rhetoric) Opaquely corrupt Caught “free stuff” bug from Bernie Favors Fed Bubble Machine Pros: Clinton Uninspiring Ok on trade Won’t rock the boat Will be hated ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/36 "2016-05-04T17:28:15Z")
I don’t understand why people are saying Trump “wants to limit Muslim immigration.” Hasn’t he insisted on NO non-citizen Muslims entering the country at all? Well, I guess ZERO is a limit, strictly speaking. Trump is crass, vulgar, self-centered, thin-skinned, and possesses not an ounce of self-reflection or humility. He’s xenophobic, Islamophobic, and conspiracy-theory minded. He biggest skill is self-promotion. He knows nothing about running an economy, foreign or domestic policy making, or how government works. But the thing I hate most about Trump is, goddammit, he’s making me vote for Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/37 "2016-05-04T17:32:25Z")
I will be voting for Clinton. I think she’ll be terrible. But I’m reasonably certain Trump would be worse, although in fairness he’s said so little about his detailed policy positions that perhaps he’d be awesome. But every policy he’s hinted at has been abysmal, so I rate the chances of “awesome,” as “non-zero, but damn close.” ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/38 "2016-05-04T17:43:21Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I find it amusing our OP is more transphobic then the presumptive Republican nominee for President. Me too. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/39 "2016-05-04T17:44:39Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > Pros: > Clinton - not Trump > Trump - not Emperor Palpatine > > Cons: > Clinton - Not Sanders > Trump - I don’t have the time or space I could not have said it better, and did not. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/40 "2016-05-04T17:44:46Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I don’t understand why people are saying Trump “wants to limit Muslim immigration.” Hasn’t he insisted on NO non-citizen Muslims entering the country at all? Well, I guess ZERO is a limit, strictly speaking. Well, ‘limit’ was an understatement. Even if he can’t get all the way to his goal, he’ll still reduce it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844.md?page=3)