# Pro-Con: Clinton vs. Trump **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 4, 2016, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844 "2016-05-04T02:31:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/41 "2016-05-04T17:49:19Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > … > Philanderer. > … I have never understood what this has to do with anybody’s ability to lead. I am not saying this in support of Trump, but just as a general statement. I don’t care what my politician does in the bedroom, as long as they are capable in the office. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/42 "2016-05-04T17:52:29Z")
> [@Kron](#): > > I have never understood what this has to do with anybody’s ability to lead. I am not saying this in support of Trump, but just as a general statement. I don’t care what my politician does in the bedroom, as long as they are capable in the office. And I suspect every single president in my lifetime and very probably before that has been a philanderer, with the exceptions of Jimmy Carter, Gerald Ford, and possibly Obama. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/43 "2016-05-04T17:54:46Z")
> [@Kron](#): > > I have never understood what this has to do with anybody’s ability to lead. I am not saying this in support of Trump, but just as a general statement. I don’t care what my politician does in the bedroom, as long as they are capable in the office. Not that I disagree with you, but it was the basis of the GOP’s witch hunt against Bill Clinton during his second term, and Trump has repeatedly brought it up as a criticism of Hillary (i.e., that she’s weak, because she let it happen). ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/44 "2016-05-04T17:57:07Z")
> [@Kron](#): > > I have never understood what this has to do with anybody’s ability to lead. I am not saying this in support of Trump, but just as a general statement. I don’t care what my politician does in the bedroom, as long as they are capable in the office. Well, as long as everything is above board and consensual, which is not totally clear. Rape allegations have been made against both Donald Trump and Bill Clinton, but the woman involved in Trump’s case (his first wife) retracted the charges. As far as I know, the women who accused Bill Clinton never did. ---
**Author:** ![Whitney\_Harper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f0a364/32.png) [@Whitney\_Harper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whitney_Harper)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/45 "2016-05-04T17:58:10Z")
I don’t really want to see and hear about the Hillary Clinton again after all of these years. I think we need some new energy, and Trump may be the one. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/46 "2016-05-04T17:59:54Z")
Trump has inspired 0 confidence in me with respect to him leading this nation. I’d be more inclined to vote for Howard Stern as he’s more presidential than Trump. Clinton wouldn’t have my support if Joe Biden was running, but he’s not. So, she’s got my vote. Again, it’s more a vote against the evil one than a vote for her. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/47 "2016-05-04T18:00:43Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Well, as long as everything is above board and consensual, which is not totally clear. Rape allegations have been made against both Donald Trump and Bill Clinton, but the woman involved in Trump’s case (his first wife) retracted the charges. As far as I know, the women who accused Bill Clinton never did. Fair enough, but at that point the descriptive would be “rapist”, not “philanderer”, and I will take the unpopular position and say “No rapists in the White House!”. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/48 "2016-05-04T19:07:50Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Nice try tho to hijack my thread. Actually, you are the one who has interrupted “your” thread by deliberately misusing a word that previous experience has shown will bring a counter response. Transvestite does not mean what you claim it means and even if you choose to disregard science, substituting, instead, your religious belief. Deliberately misusing a word in a forum where you know that it will bring a reaction is not appropriate behavior. **EVERYONE** , we now know why the word transvestite was inserted into the discussion. It is not actually an aspect of this discussion. Anyone wishing to continue to discuss the meaning of transvestite or the reality of transgender science may open a new thread in **Great Debates** , **The BBQ Pit** , **IMHO** , or elsewhere. It is not an **Elections** topic and it is now finished in this thread. **[/Moderating]** ---
**Author:** ![nani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58956e/32.png) [@nani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nani)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/49 "2016-05-04T19:12:26Z")
My opinion of Clinton is mostly formed by my experience in the State Department in 2012, and the relationships I formed with people there, including people who worked directly with her. Clinton Pros: She is hypercompetent - she was an extremely respected figure in State by everyone I met for this. Personally, I think having a government that actually does - well - the things it is already charged to do is the most important step Democrats can take to advance their cause. Particularly in this era of gridlock. It is also my anecdotal experience that she inspires a lot of loyalty in people working with her, which helps with this. She has deep relationships with activist leaders and political figures, particularly in minority communities. This is how you maintain support with people even after mistakes or verbal gaffes or straight-up disagreements. It helps in figuring out what is possible and what is needed. It helps in accomplishing what you want to do. Her positions and rhetoric on racial justice, furthermore, indicate that she has a much better grasp on what people are saying in minority communities than I would have hoped for. Head and shoulders above other candidates. I also appreciate that she is aware of the issues faced by the white working class, and shown in her policies such as her plan for helping coal country. None of the candidates agree with my views on foreign policy but I respect her in this area the most. Anecdotal again, but I was very happy to see first-hand how she extended support to the traditionally-marginalized ‘human rights’ offices at State. In general I think her positions represent a progressively-inclined thoughtfulness and flexibility that I appreciate, even if most other people my age do not. Just having a woman leader doesn’t mean so much to me. Having a woman leader who is also a strong feminist is more important. Clinton Cons: Even though any President will become a polarizing figure, she starts as a polarizing figure, more like Obama 2012 than Obama 2008. She’s not a very good campaigner either. So will Democrats take the Senate? Trump makes things more interesting here. While she seems to have mostly sidelined unsavory types like Lanny Davis or Mark Penn in this campaign, I still don’t like or trust some of the people she apparently does. Trump Pros: If he can break the bond between Christian conservatives and the Republican Party, that would be best. I hope that his ascendancy will force liberals to acknowledge the problems that come up when you want to be both pro-working class and pro-social justice, in this country. Trump Cons: I don’t see any indication that he will be competent at any aspect of being President. I don’t see him pulling out a victory. I don’t think there enough angry white people to win a presidential election anymore. Hispanics won’t forget what Trump has said and who he draws support from. Arguments from mostly white conservatives about how he isn’t really racist because he isn’t using racial slurs and directly saying “I believe whites are the superior race and other races are not just inferior but in fact, sub-human” will generally not be convincing. This doesn’t go into his problems with other minorities and women. “Did you support Trump” is probably going to be a question asked for a long time. My experience generally confirms the idea that for minorities, racism is something like a gradient, while white people tend to see it as something you either are or are not. Sexism has a similar dynamic. This is one reason why, for example, talking about racism so hard with white people, because admitting any trace of racism is seen as the same as being KKK. This isn’t good, since no one, including liberals, including minorities, is immune to the effects of structural and cultural racism and sexism. I worry that Trump’s run will harden this ‘one-drop’ view of racism/sexism. The way we talk about these issues will be more dysfunctional and it will also deepen rifts in society. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/50 "2016-05-04T19:45:07Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > Pros: > > Trump - not Emperor Palpatine [Yet.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3jSsg1TlP4) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/51 "2016-05-04T20:07:50Z")
Edit: Crap, just saw mod note. Sorry! ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/52 "2016-05-04T20:45:11Z")
> [@Randolph](#): > > Trump pluses: He’s not Ted “Lizard Man” Cruz. Seriously, Cruz scared me. Trump is an incompetent, racist fool, but Cruz is downright evil. Bullet dodged. I don’t have anything good to say about Trump, but he’s freaking Abe Lincoln compared to Cruz. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/53 "2016-05-04T22:03:25Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/54 "2016-05-04T22:09:40Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Pros: Trump > \ > Will be hated > > \ > > Pros: Clinton > > Uninspiring > \ > Will be hated I do not think the word “pro” means what you think it means. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/55 "2016-05-04T22:14:25Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Philanderer. > [@Kron](#): > > I have never understood what this has to do with anybody’s ability to lead. I am not saying this in support of Trump, but just as a general statement. I don’t care what my politician does in the bedroom, as long as they are capable in the office. > [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > And I suspect every single president in my lifetime and very probably before that has been a philanderer, with the exceptions of Jimmy Carter, Gerald Ford, and possibly Obama. I recall an editorial cartoon from when the Lewinsky story broke: [drawing of Jefferson] “He fooled around.” [Lincoln] “He fooled around.” [FDR] “He fooled around.” [JFK] “He fooled around.” [Nixon] **"He** was a perfect angel!" ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/56 "2016-05-04T22:15:59Z")
> [@Whitney\_Harper](#): > > I don’t really want to see and hear about the Hillary Clinton again after all of these years. I think we need some new energy, and Trump may be the one. Only in the sense that an atomic bomb ticking down in the furnace of a coal-fired power plant is “some new energy.” ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/57 "2016-05-04T22:21:40Z")
BrainGlutton: > [@](#): > > Clinton pluses: > A Democrat. > Not a Republican. > Experienced in national government in several capacities. > \ > The African-Americans like her, they must have a reason. All the reason they ever need are the ones you listed above that line. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/58 "2016-05-04T22:22:18Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > Trump - not Emperor Palpatine Maybe not literally, but he is at least a Sith. You can tell Darth Donald is well hooked in to the Dark Side of the Force. At this point, wouldn’t be surprised to see him remote-strangle a heckler. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/59 "2016-05-04T22:24:40Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Cons: Clinton > > \ > Religious fanatic Yeah, [that](http://www.salon.com/2015/04/25/progressives_cant_trust_hillary_clinton_on_cultural_and_economic_issues_the_problems_are_stark_and_decades_long/) troubles me too – but, at least it hasn’t come out in her politics or rhetoric so far, knock particle-board. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844/60 "2016-05-04T23:43:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I do not think the word “pro” means what you think it means. Yes it does. Loved and inspiring presidents are dangerous. They can get the masses on their side. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Yeah, [that](http://www.salon.com/2015/04/25/progressives_cant_trust_hillary_clinton_on_cultural_and_economic_issues_the_problems_are_stark_and_decades_long/) troubles me too – but, at least it hasn’t come out in her politics or rhetoric so far, knock particle-board. Oh it definitely has. > **[The Demonic Religion of the Left Threatens Us All - LewRockwell](https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/04/murray-n-rothbard/st-hillary-and-the-religious-left/)** > > This article was originally published in the December 1994 issue of the Rothbard-Rockwell Report. For some time I have been hammering at the theme that the main cultural and political problem of our time is not “secular humanism.” The problem with... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-con-clinton-vs-trump/753844.md?page=4)