# Pro Giuliani group co-chair says we should get rid of all Muslims **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 30, 2007, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655 "2007-12-30T01:08:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/61 "2007-12-30T15:37:40Z")
**Liberal** , if you’re not mentally competent to infer the correct meaning of my posts, don’t bother responding to them. **mswas** is the one who has made all the generalizations about Muslims in this thread. Never once have I generalized (“All the Muslims I know” is not a generalization). Do you think **mswas** has met enough Muslims to be able to talk about them the way he has? Why aren’t you addressing your batshit craziness to him? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/62 "2007-12-30T17:11:24Z")
[QUOTE=monstro] **Liberal** , if you’re not mentally competent to infer the correct meaning of my posts, don’t bother responding to them. [/QUOTE] Okely dokely. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/63 "2007-12-30T17:25:38Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] They were “active combatants against US forces”. Again, where is the cite for innocent children being held at Gitmo? [/QUOTE] When was it proven that they were “active combatants” against anything? You do realize that’s a completely meaningless designation, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/64 "2007-12-30T17:40:11Z")
I agree with **Monstro** that the Muslim hating dynamic in the US right now is vfery much like the early days of Nazi Germany. I honestly believe that a large percentage of Americans, probably a majority, would whole-heartedly support a final solution against Muslims and would enthusiastically join right in with building the death camps. A frightening number of Americans seem to believe we’re on the verge of an endtimes battle against Islam. It’s pretty scary. A few thousand nutjobs from the other side of the world are not a threat to the US or to the world. The religious zealots with political power in the US are a far greater threat to the world than Islam ever could be. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/65 "2007-12-30T18:35:45Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I agree with **Monstro** that the Muslim hating dynamic in the US right now is vfery much like the early days of Nazi Germany. I honestly believe that a large percentage of Americans, probably a majority, would whole-heartedly support a final solution against Muslims and would enthusiastically join right in with building the death camps. [/QUOTE] Oh, please. What evidence do you have of that other than your own desire to paint Americans as Nazi equivalents? [Here](http://www.pollingreport.com/terror.htm) is a series of polls concerning American’s thoughts about “terrorism”. I don’t see anything there to support your thesis. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/66 "2007-12-30T18:50:02Z")
Spend a few minutes reading the Freeper site. That’s how Americans really think. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/67 "2007-12-30T19:12:32Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Spend a few minutes reading the Freeper site. That’s how Americans really think. [/QUOTE] Not a very convincing argument. BTW, I’m not sure what you mean by “early days”, but maybe you do literally mean the first few days of Nazi rule. Hitler came to power in Jan '33, and by April of that year Jews were barred from many of the more well paid professions. The first concentration camp was also begun in 1933. The Nurenberg Laws were enacted in 1935. But thanks for Godwinizing the thread! ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/68 "2007-12-30T19:41:09Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Spend a few minutes reading the Freeper site. That’s how Americans really think. [/QUOTE] How do Canadians really think? Maybe I’m one of them and don’t know it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/69 "2007-12-30T20:02:13Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] A few thousand nutjobs from the other side of the world are not a threat to the US or to the world. The religious zealots with political power in the US are a far greater threat to the world than Islam ever could be. [/QUOTE] A few thousand? Not a threat? Tell that to the 21st century Jews of Israel. [QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Spend a few minutes reading the Freeper site. That’s how Americans really think. [/QUOTE] Really? You are American aren’t you? Your self loathing is not healthy. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/70 "2007-12-30T20:46:16Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Spend a few minutes reading the Freeper site. That’s how Americans really think. [/QUOTE] Piffle. The voices of a group with a specific bent that spend hours pretending that they are engaged in great moral battles is not “how Americans really think,” (particularly when they admire Beavis and Butthead as much as GWB). That is just one loud element on the internet and if most of the Americans you know in real life sound like them, you need to get out more. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/71 "2007-12-30T20:48:19Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] A few thousand nutjobs from the other side of the world are not a threat to the US or to the world. The religious zealots with political power in the US are a far greater threat to the world than Islam ever could be. [/QUOTE] A billion Muslims in the world, and they don’t have the power to threaten the world, and never will? Well. If I were Muslim, I’d be insulted. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/72 "2007-12-30T21:00:39Z")
Godfuckingdamnit. Can we have a sticky on “female circumcision”/female genital mutilation please? I have, for what feels like the twentieth time, to point out that FGM, while prevalent in _some_ Arabic and African Muslim societies, is cultural, not religious, and is also present in Jewish, Christian, and animist cultures, predominantly in east Africa. [Cite](http://www.fgmnetwork.org/Lightfoot-klein/prisonersofritual.htm). ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/73 "2007-12-30T21:02:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Spend a few minutes reading the Freeper site. That’s how Americans really think. That’s exactly what the Free Republic assholes would _love_ us to think. They try to convince themselves and the world that they’re True Americans, that they speak for the majority. But they’re wrong, and you’re wrong. I think there’s a very scary, quite substantive minority in the U.S. that would happily expunge all non-Christians from our borders. They backed Bush but think even he didn’t go far enough to force their religous agenda on the world. They’re behind the Huckabees and other religious ideologues running for office. But they don’t speak for the entire 85% (or whatever the current percentage is) of people who identify as Christian. Most people who identify themselves as ‘Christian’ don’t wear their faith as a shield against the big bad secular world. They celebrate Christmas and Easter and otherwise go along their lives without thinking much about their religion – just as most modern Jews celebrate Passover, Rosh Hashanna and Chanukah and then go merrily along eating ham ‘n’ cheese sandwiches for lunch. Anti-muslim bigotry is absolutely reprehensible and a definite problem here. You can see it right in this thread on the allegedly enlightened SDMB. But acting as if most Americans are actively or even passively hoping for a Muslim genocide is counterproductive; it’s so ridiculously, patently over-the-top that those making the claim are risking drowning out the reality of the danger with their noisy static. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/74 "2007-12-30T21:47:24Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] Nope, still not getting it. Might not be any hope for you on this one, **mswas**. Probably best for you to avoid the topic of analogies altogether. [/QUOTE] No, her analogy is just stupid. It’s pretty simple. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/75 "2007-12-30T21:48:29Z")
**monstro** I consider a systematic genocide to be a non-negotiable point when resembling ‘the holocaust’. If there is no systematic genocide occurring then the analogy is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/76 "2007-12-30T21:50:43Z")
[QUOTE=Tamerlane] Not currently. But rather recently there is the case of Bosnia. The claims mix in “ethnic cleansing” which you regard as a seperate matter, but does include some directed massacres, Srebenica of course being the most prominent: > **[Bosnian genocide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_Genocide)** > > The Bosnian genocide\[b\] took place during the Bosnian War of 1992–1995 and includes the Srebrenica massacre of July 1995 or the wider crimes against humanity and ethnic cleansing campaign perpetrated throughout areas controlled by the Army of Republika Srpska (VRS). The events in Srebrenica in 1995 included the killing of more than 8,000 Bosniak (Bosnian Muslim) men and boys, as well as the mass expulsion of another 25,000–30,000 Bosniak civilians by VRS units under the command of General R Th... [/QUOTE] Well genocide is a form of ethnic cleansing, but not all ethnic cleansing is genocide. What the Israelis, Jordanians and Egyptians did to the Palestinians was ethnic cleansing, but not genocide. If it were genocide, well there would be no Palestinian problem today. You have provided a good example though. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/77 "2007-12-30T22:12:45Z")
**monstro** I never made any Muslim generalizations based upon the Muslims I know. I stated what is easily verifiable, that in the Koran Mohammed called for violent conversion as a tactic when the Muslim population is strong, and dissimulation within the populace when the Muslim population is weak. It’s not a generalization, its in the Koran. [https://www.melbourne.anglican.com.au/main.php?pg=news&news\_id=2014&s=1041](https://www.melbourne.anglican.com.au/main.php?pg=news&news_id=2014&s=1041) > [@](#): > > On the other hand, no less a figure than the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdel Aziz al-Sheikh, issued a statement on the official Saudi news service, defending Muslims’ divine right to resort to violence: “The spread of Islam has gone through several phases, secret and then public, in Mecca and Medina. God then authorised the faithful to defend themselves and to fight against those fighting them, which amounts to a right legitimised by God. This… is quite reasonable, and God will not hate it.” > > Saudi Arabia’s most senior cleric also explained that war was never Islam’s ancient founder, the prophet Mohammed’s, first choice: “He gave three options: either accept Islam, or surrender and pay tax, and they will be allowed to remain in their land, observing their religion under the protection of Muslims.” Thus, according to the Grand Mufti, the third option (the sword) was only a last resort, if the non-Muslims refused to convert or surrender peacefully to the armies of Islam. > > Sheikh Abdel went on to urge people to read the Koran and Sunnah (the record of Mohammed’s teaching and example) for themselves, pointing out that the Koran has been translated into many of the world’s languages: “Those who read the Koran and the Sunnah can understand the facts.” Don’t keep your mind so open that your brain falls out. Jesus made one or two metaphorical statements about dividing people with a sword and people beat that to death as evidence of Christ’s call to arms. Yet, he never engaged in real violence. The most violent thing he ever did was physically throw money lenders from the temple. Mohammed went out and conquered vast tracts of land, and his successors for the next couple of hundred years did the same. The President of Iran has talked about how he knows personally and is awaiting the return of the Madhi, a 1000 year old warlord who will lead the Shia armies against it’s enemies. As crazy as Bush sounds, I have never heard him talk about how Jesus was his buddy and was ready to lead them against the armies of the unfaithful. If you can’t see a difference between awaiting the Mahdi and government funding for faith based initiatives your critical thinking skills are suspect. I have argued before, that Ahmadinejad is just Khameini’s mad dog, meant to mirror Bush, like Khatami was meant to mirror Clinton, and that Khameini himself is not batshit, but to pretend like radical Islam is this closeted fringe idea is naive. As for the rabid Evangelicals, well when they start putting Muslims in box-cars, I bet it’ll likely be Evangelicals fighting the fight to free them. It was Christians who led that fight during the Underground Railroad and Civil Rights, and it will most likely be Christians again. Of course that history is completely irrelevant, as everyone would prefer to imagine Evangelical Nazis hiding under the bed. I doubt you know enough Evangelicals to base a real opinion. If the Fascists took over here, I’d trust the Evangelical Rednecks to fight the good fight more than multiculturalists who would rather hate their own countrymen than recognize a Totalitarian ideology in a foreign religion. Yes, we should have freedom of religion, but the purpose of freedom of religion is so that we can have a free debate and decide what morals we think are best to govern ourselves with, not so that we will be blind to the injustices committed by others in the name of their holy book. **Tamerlane** I have heard that it is against both Christians and Muslims, that the work against the Christians was pretty much done, and that it was Arab Muslims vs African Muslims now. I admit that I might be wrong, but it’s wrong regardless of who the victim group is. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/78 "2007-12-30T22:15:37Z")
Free Republic is not what Americans ‘really think’ any more than the Daily Kos is what Americans ‘really think’. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/79 "2007-12-30T23:39:40Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] They have yet to be charged, tried and convicted. What’s _your_ definition of “innocent”? [/QUOTE] The presumption of innocence applies in the courtroom, not on the battlefield. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/80 "2007-12-30T23:49:19Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Spend a few minutes reading the Freeper site. That’s how Americans really think. [/QUOTE] I disagree. Spend some time watching _The Simpsons_ to see what Americans really think, or don’t think, about. Well, watch any of the first 10 years of the series, at least. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655.md?page=5)