# Pro Giuliani group co-chair says we should get rid of all Muslims **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 30, 2007, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655 "2007-12-30T01:08:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/81 "2007-12-31T00:53:35Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] Free Republic is not what Americans ‘really think’ any more than the Daily Kos is what Americans ‘really think’. [/QUOTE] I disagree. Both sites nicely encapsulate large blocs of voters’ opinions on general issues. I think that’s why they’re so popular. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/82 "2007-12-31T00:56:03Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] The presumption of innocence applies in the courtroom, not on the battlefield. [/QUOTE] And what makes you think they were taken from a battlefield ? And what likelihood is there that they will ever see a courtroom ? And even if they really were shooting at American soldiers, they are still innocent. There’s nothing wrong in shooting at an army of conquest. And no, American soldiers have no moral right to self defense in Iraq, any more than a murderer who breaks into your house has a moral right to shoot you in self defense. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/83 "2007-12-31T01:04:38Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] And no, American soldiers have no moral right to self defense in Iraq, any more than a murderer who breaks into your house has a moral right to shoot you in self defense. [/QUOTE] Gosh you’re dense. Your own freakin cite is about “children” detained in Afghanistan. What does Iraq have to do with anything? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/84 "2007-12-31T01:15:55Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Your own freakin cite is about “children” detained in Afghanistan. What does Iraq have to do with anything? [/QUOTE] Because we’ve grabbed children there too. That was just the first story that I found. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/85 "2007-12-31T01:23:22Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] The presumption of innocence applies in the courtroom, not on the battlefield. [/QUOTE] Since we’ve made the whole fucking country a “battlefield”, I guess the entire population is fair game, right? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/86 "2007-12-31T01:33:28Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Not a very convincing argument. BTW, I’m not sure what you mean by “early days”, but maybe you do literally mean the first few days of Nazi rule. Hitler came to power in Jan '33, and by April of that year Jews were barred from many of the more well paid professions. The first concentration camp was also begun in 1933. The Nurenberg Laws were enacted in 1935. But thanks for Godwinizing the thread! [/QUOTE] It’s not Godwinizing if it’s true. We started the concentration camps several years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/87 "2007-12-31T01:34:35Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Since we’ve made the whole fucking country a “battlefield”, I guess the entire population is fair game, right? :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] The whole of Afghanistan is battlefield? Who knew? When Germany and Japan were battlefields, did Americans whine and mewl about “innocent” Germans and Japanese? I rather doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/88 "2007-12-31T01:34:52Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] The presumption of innocence applies in the courtroom, not on the battlefield. [/QUOTE] These people were not captured on a battelfield, retard. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/89 "2007-12-31T01:36:05Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] The whole of Afghanistan is battlefield? Who knew? When Germany and Japan were battlefields, did Americans whine and mewl about “innocent” Germans and Japanese? I rather doubt it. [/QUOTE] My God, you’re a stupid cunt, aren’t you? We’re not at war with either Iraq or Afghanistan, peabrain. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/90 "2007-12-31T01:39:00Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] Free Republic is not what Americans ‘really think’ any more than the Daily Kos is what Americans ‘really think’. [/QUOTE] I don’t know much about Kos but I think that Freepers are representative of how the majority of Americans think? Have you ever tried to talk to an American? They’re fucking morons, man. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/91 "2007-12-31T01:41:20Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] The whole of Afghanistan is battlefield? Who knew? When Germany and Japan were battlefields, did Americans whine and mewl about “innocent” Germans and Japanese? I rather doubt it. [/QUOTE] Why don’t you tell us all about the “enemy combatants” of WWII that were held without benefit of civil or military court proceedings? Y’know, all those captured Japanese and Germans that we hid away indefinitely? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/92 "2007-12-31T01:43:46Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I don’t know much about Kos but I think that Freepers are representative of how the majority of Americans think? Have you ever tried to talk to an American? They’re fucking morons, man. [/QUOTE] Hey! I resent that remark. I’m an _idiot_, not a _moron_. Get it right, will you? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/93 "2007-12-31T01:56:54Z")
In all seriousness, I just think that most people in general (not just Americans) are reflexively tribalistic, xenophobic and not very thoughtful. The perception among rank and file Americans that Muslims are all wild eyed, backpack bombing zealots who want to kill “infidels” is depressingly pervasive. They aren’t very amenable to education about it either. They don’t want to have to read or have to actually think about anything. They are very complacent in their self-perceived moral superiority and “America, fuck yeah” assumptions and don’t want to be shaken from them. It isn’t hard to get people to go along with the dehumanization and genocide of other groups of people. Read _Hitler’s Willing Executioners_. Americans aren’t so different. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/94 "2007-12-31T01:58:18Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Why don’t you tell us all about the “enemy combatants” of WWII that were held without benefit of civil or military court proceedings? Y’know, all those captured Japanese and Germans that we hid away indefinitely? [/QUOTE] Not sure what your point is , but there were over 400,000 prisoners of war held in 500 camps in the US indefinitely without benefit of legal proceedings until the unconditional surrender. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/95 "2007-12-31T02:05:09Z")
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] Not sure what your point is , but there were over 400,000 prisoners of war held in 500 camps in the US indefinitely without benefit of legal proceedings until the unconditional surrender. [/QUOTE] They were prisoners of war and treated as such, and when we won the war, they were released. We’ve won this war-when do we release these “enemy combatants”? When the W_A_R O_N T_E_R_R_O_R is over? Under those conditions, these uncharged prisoners can be held forever. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/96 "2007-12-31T02:10:11Z")
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] Not sure what your point is , but there were over 400,000 prisoners of war held in 500 camps in the US indefinitely without benefit of legal proceedings until the unconditional surrender. [/QUOTE] Are you saying we should declare them to be “Prisoners of War”, with all rights given by the Geneva Conventions? Hell, I’m all for that! Sorry I misunderstood ya, buddy. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/97 "2007-12-31T02:16:58Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] In all seriousness, I just think that most people in general (not just Americans) are reflexively tribalistic, xenophobic and not very thoughtful. The perception among rank and file Americans that Muslims are all wild eyed, backpack bombing zealots who want to kill “infidels” is depressingly pervasive. [/QUOTE] While I tend to agree with you, I also wonder what perception of Americans is espoused by rank-and-file Muslims (whatever that may mean) outside the U.S. I suspect it is similarly skewed, and for similar reasons. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/98 "2007-12-31T03:06:27Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] In all seriousness, I just think that most people in general (not just Americans) are reflexively tribalistic, xenophobic and not very thoughtful. The perception among rank and file Americans that Muslims are all wild eyed, backpack bombing zealots who want to kill “infidels” is depressingly pervasive. They aren’t very amenable to education about it either. They don’t want to have to read or have to actually think about anything. They are very complacent in their self-perceived moral superiority and “America, fuck yeah” assumptions and don’t want to be shaken from them. It isn’t hard to get people to go along with the dehumanization and genocide of other groups of people. Read _Hitler’s Willing Executioners_. Americans aren’t so different. [/QUOTE] Xenophobia is the sin of peasants everywhere. The Free Republic does not represent the mass of the populace. People on this forum (The SDMB) like to think of themselves as a sort of unique set of the populace. In all likelihood it’s not. The SDMB is fairly highly representative of the American left I would say, with some nutters like **Der Trihs** , on to the more rationally extreme like **Brainglutton** or moderate like **tomndebb**. You get all kinds here, and the left is about 50% of the population. Then you get other more extreme leftist blog sites like Daily Kos and they are the counterpart of the Free Republic. Most people are going about their daily existance and probably don’t think about Muslims all that much. The hysteria is far less extreme today than it was during the Cold War. People still buy their newspaper and slurpee from the Muslim at the 7/11 and do it without beating them to death. Hate crimes have been few and far between. Muslim hate in this country today is less extreme than Anti-Semitism in Europe today, let alone in Nazi Germany. Certain websites and news outlets represent voting blocs, but there is really no voice in the entire country that represents the bulk of opinion, because we are bitterly divided by the 60s culture war fault lines. I think people in this thread should do more reading about the climate of anti-semitism in Europe prior to World War II, and compare it to the climate of anti-Muslim hatred today. I think you’ll find that what we’ve got here doesn’t even compare. I think Americans really are different. At least in degree, if not in kind. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/99 "2007-12-31T03:35:45Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] …I think Americans really are different. At least in degree, if not in kind. [/QUOTE] Define “an American” first. And then I’ll come back and tell you just how much of a xenophobic, inbred simpleton you are. Not that it should be news to you. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655/100 "2007-12-31T04:05:20Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] These people were not captured on a battelfield, retard. [/QUOTE] Where were they captured, then, Woodfield Mall? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-giuliani-group-co-chair-says-we-should-get-rid-of-all-muslims/431655.md?page=6)