# Pro-Life=Fundamentalist Moron **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 29, 2010, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399 "2010-07-29T01:23:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/181 "2010-07-30T19:22:59Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > > [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > > > (I must say, there’s something about the idea of Jesus posting on a Star Wars message board that just cracks me up.) > > And lo, the garden of my father isn’t for candy-asses who thinketh the prequel trilogy has redeeming factors ; for verily I tell thee, Empire was the the best of them, and George Lucas he did not have a hand in it. “The future Darth Vader frolicking in the grass with his girlfriend? My God, why have you forsaken me?” ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/182 "2010-07-30T20:03:31Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Now that I think about it I do agree that my statement was said in a rude manner and should have written differently. It shouldn’t have been written _at all_. Guys, let’s drop the abortion debate hijack – it’s only going to reinforce **Curtis** ’s convictions that he was right to comment. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/183 "2010-07-30T20:15:10Z")
> [@LouiseE](#): > > Marley23, villa, Zsofia, **PlainJain** , Mr LeMay has taken an important step forward in acknowledging his behavior. This is a step that many on this board, even in this thread, have strongly wished for. Perhaps we can encourage him by acknowledging his advance in self awareness, instead of immediately chiming in with reasons why it is inadequate or incomplete. A couple of things. I acknowledge CL’s post as being a step but the sheer brevity of it makes me think he’s trying to put a band-aid on the hemorrhaging going on here. He literally said the least amount possible to convey that message. What about a little genuine discourse. We’ve seen his posts in the past, we know he’s capable of it. I would have rather him come in and say, “Sorry you all don’t agree, but that’s the way I feel and I had a right to post it”. At least that would have been honest. Second, did you even bother to read the post I linked to? I ask what were the sources of his ideas and made it clear it was not my intention to ridicule him for those answers. Anyone who posts on these boards cannot get away with calling someone who is _considering_ abortion murderers and not getting called to cite the reasons for thinking so without incurring the responses he’s gotten. I think it would be helpful for him and this discussion if we could discuss the merits of his foundation of why he believes as he does because I really don’t he’s put any real thought of his own into it, instead I’m guessing he’s merely parroting what he’s heard. I would like to hear from him what he knows about embryos, for example. **FriarTed** said “Curtis should have been more sensitive, but he had no obligation to keep his mouth shut.” I totally agree with that. But that’s not the issue. **Curtis** came here looking for support. Most here believe his religious view of this is wrong and his rude way of delivering those ideas are wrong. No one is debating his right to say what he did. I’ll encourage Mr. LeMay to fullest if he will actually steps up to the plate. **Curtis**? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2010, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/184 "2010-07-31T03:29:02Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So, something like 35 states will prosecute someone who murders a pregnant woman of double homocide. Are yous aying that we add that second charge of homocide because of teh emotional distress caused by the loss of the fetus? :dubious: No, we do it because the anti-abortionists are trying to use it as a wedge issue to get killing fetuses declared legally murder, to bolster their arguments against abortion. You can justify them as I did…but that wasn’t why the laws were proposed in the first place. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > > We justify it the same way we justify punishing rape as worse than “unauthorized rubbing”, because of the emotional trauma caused to the actual live people involved. Not because of the destruction of something that is farther from being a person than a hamster is. > > To use your analogy, we call rape “rape” because an actual rape occurred. if only unauthorized rubbing had occurred, we wouldn’t call it rape. No; rape IS “unauthorized rubbing” of a particular sort, which is why I used the term. It’s the emotional trauma that makes it such a serious crime. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2010, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/185 "2010-07-31T04:30:19Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > > > > Well, there is this a commandment against killing. > > > > Which abortion is not, and which the Bible does not call murder. There are places, however, where God commands people to kill infants. > > > > A lot of states seem to think its murder. > > So what? They’re wrong. > > > [@](#): > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > There is also a passage in the bible where I think the Mary (mother of Jesus) visits her 6 month pregnant cousin Elisabeth (mother of John the Baptist) and fetus John the baptist leaps in Elisabeth’s womb when he recognizes Jesus in Mary’s womb. > > > > It’s Luke. It says that the fetus jumped when Elisabeth saw Mary because Elisabeth was “filled with the Holy Ghost.” It does not say that the fetus thought or recognized anything, and it doesn’t say that Mary was pregnant yet. > > I thought the visit occurred after the angel came and told Mary that she was pregnant with the Son of God. I don’t remember where I read it but the leaping by John fetus was (I thought) due to the rpesence of Jesus. No, the Angel in Luke’s Nativity never tells her she’s pregnant, he tells her “you will be with child and give birth to a son.” She asks how that’s possible since she is a virgin and he says, “the Holy Spirit will come upon you” (unfortunate choice of words, I know). Then Mary goes to visit Elisabeth and greets her. Then it says, “When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.” It doesn’t say the baby recognized Jesus. Mary wasn’t pregnant yet. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Leviticus says that the penalty for killing a woman’ fetus is just a fine, by the way. It does not consider it to be murder. > > Leviticus says that the penalty for klilling a child up to 5 years of age is a fine. Is your point that the old testament drew a line that we would not draw today? > > “Leviticus 27:6 > If the person is from a month old up to five years old, your valuation shall be…” > > 5 shekels for a boy and 3 shekels for a girl. [/quote] Yes, the Bible draws a line. Even in your example, it does not value infabnts less than a month old, but Exodus 21 (I got the book wrong, sorry, it was Exodus, not Leviticus), if someone hits a pregant woman and causes a miscarriage but no other harm is done, the guy just has to pay a fine of the husband’s choosing, which seems to imply it’s not even a crime if the husband does it, and it does not call it murder or impose the penalty for murder (which is death). Here’s the passage: [indent]If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, 24Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. 9 **Ex. 21:22-25** ). ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/186 "2010-07-31T17:48:09Z")
> [@LouiseE](#): > > \ > > Marley23, villa, Zsofia, PlainJain, Mr LeMay has taken an important step forward in acknowledging his behavior. This is a step that many on this board, even in this thread, have strongly wished for. Perhaps we can encourage him by acknowledging his advance in self awareness, instead of immediately chiming in with reasons why it is inadequate or incomplete. I would agree with you, except that **Curtis** does this all the freaking time. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/187 "2010-08-01T12:39:16Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > > [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > > > (I must say, there’s something about the idea of Jesus posting on a Star Wars message board that just cracks me up.) > > This, my body is. Take and it eat, you will. In memory of me, do this. It could just be a symbolic saying that was taken by some to think Jesus was actually giving His body or blood. The word “is” can mean just a symbol. Like a lover telling his beloved,“Here’is’ my heart take it and say we will never part”. The lover is not really taking his heart out of it’s body, nor did Jesus let His apostles bite him to eat His flesh,or actually drink his blood. Some people look at a fertile egg and belive it is a baby, that is their belief and they have the right to belive it is so, but if they are truly Pro-life( not just pro-birth) then they should be more willing to sacrifice for the already born and be as adament about the people already born who are suffering hunger etc. all over the world. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/188 "2010-08-01T12:44:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > > [@SteveG1](#): > > > > > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > > > > > > [@Bosstone](#): > > > > > > > > The worst part about fundamentalists is not their views. It’s the need to evangelize. > > > > > > [shrug] How could that not be part of the fundamentalist package? Jesus told Christians to evangelize. > > > > But he did not command them to be sanctimonious pricks about it. > > It was very strongly implied; Jesus was a sanctimonious prick. Jesus was not a sanctimonious prick, He stood up for the sinners and chided the fundamentlists( the Pharisees for one).He called them white washed tombs, hypocrites etc.. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/189 "2010-08-01T13:01:11Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Question- is the objection here that Curtis said anything negative about their decision to abort or the way he said it? > > Because if it’s the latter, I’ll raise a variation of the Penn Gillette question about witnessing- how badly do you have to hate or at least be extraordinarily uncaring about someone to say nothing if you see them about to commit what you believe is a deeply soul-harming action? > > To Curtis- Is it so difficult to realize that you expressed your concern in a very hamhanded & uncompassionate way? Couldn’t you say something like “Hey, I’m sorry. I’m not always the most understanding or emotionally sensitive of people due to my Asperger’s and I just went into my automatic hyper-analytical mode. Yes, I am very deeply pro-life, and your post triggered that mode. I should have thought before I posted and considered your feelings. I am concerned that you two are about to go into something that you’ll regret deeply and will do great harm to you spiritually, and I do hope you find another way to deal with this. But please forgive me for my hamhanded condemning reaction.” > > Edited addition- I don’t know if I’d call most unjustified (to me) abortion by the word “murder”, but it’s definitely the stopping of a human life and should be acknowledged as such by all sides. The debate is whether that life has any claims that outweigh the will of the mother. There is human Life in sperm and overies,so in other words if one ejaculates many human lives are lost? Life is a passed on thing ,proven by the generations of people since they appeared on earth, even if one believes in the Genesis account! ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/190 "2010-08-01T13:10:31Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > > > > Well, there is this a commandment against killing. > > > > Which abortion is not, and which the Bible does not call murder. There are places, however, where God commands people to kill infants. > > > > A lot of states seem to think its murder. > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > There is also a passage in the bible where I think the Mary (mother of Jesus) visits her 6 month pregnant cousin Elisabeth (mother of John the Baptist) and fetus John the baptist leaps in Elisabeth’s womb when he recognizes Jesus in Mary’s womb. > > > > It’s Luke. It says that the fetus jumped when Elisabeth saw Mary because Elisabeth was “filled with the Holy Ghost.” It does not say that the fetus thought or recognized anything, and it doesn’t say that Mary was pregnant yet. > > I thought the visit occurred after the angel came and told Mary that she was pregnant with the Son of God. I don’t remember where I read it but the leaping by John fetus was (I thought) due to the rpesence of Jesus. > > [Leviticus says that the penalty for killing a woman’ fetus is just a fine, by the way. It does not consider it to be murder. Leviticus says that the penalty for klilling a child up to 5 years of age is a fine. Is your point that the old testament drew a line that we would not draw today? “Leviticus 27:6 If the person is from a month old up to five years old, your valuation shall be…” 5 shekels for a boy and 3 shekels for a girl. [/QUOTE] That is NOT what Leviticus 27 is about- it’s about the payment to be released from special vows made to YHWH. Nothing to do with fines taking a life. Btw- the Exodus passage is about accidentally causing a miscarriage, or as many pro-life Jews regard it, causing a premature birth- with further penalties attached to any harm done to the mother OR the child. The fine has nothing to do with a deliberate attack on the mother or the child. Also, while Jesus said nothing about abortion maybe it was for the same reason he said nothing about bestiality. Every Jew knew the latter was totally forbidden. The early Christian document The Didache sure said something about it- it was a cause for excommunication. Also, the NT references against drug-using sorcery (pharmakaia) may well have applied to abortifacients. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/191 "2010-08-01T18:42:32Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > > [@Guinastasia](#): > > > > > [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > > > > > (I must say, there’s something about the idea of Jesus posting on a Star Wars message board that just cracks me up.) > > > > This, my body is. Take and it eat, you will. In memory of me, do this. > > It could just be a symbolic saying that was taken by some to think Jesus was actually giving His body or blood. The word “is” can mean just a symbol. Like a lover telling his beloved,“Here’is’ my heart take it and say we will never part”. The lover is not really taking his heart out of it’s body, nor did Jesus let His apostles bite him to eat His flesh,or actually drink his blood. > > Some people look at a fertile egg and belive it is a baby, that is their belief and they have the right to belive it is so, but if they are truly Pro-life( not just pro-birth) then they should be more willing to sacrifice for the already born and be as adament about the people already born who are suffering hunger etc. all over the world. Did you read the post I was quoting? You’ve been completely whooshed. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/192 "2010-08-01T18:51:02Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > This, my body is. Take and it eat, you will. In memory of me, do this. > > Did you read the post I was quoting? You’ve been completely whooshed. Winner! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/193 "2010-08-02T06:02:04Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Hi, **Curtis**. Just for the record, Jesus never said a word about abortion (actually, abortion is not mentioned anywhere in the Bible). > > Jesus DID say this: > > 1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. > > 3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. > **Mt. 7:1-13** Pardon me for doubting you, but I don’t think he said any of those things. If he had, they would be **in red**. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/194 "2010-08-02T14:30:06Z")
Curtis, do let us know if you apologized to the parents on that other board. If they’re struggling with depression (and their marriage), _any_ expression of empathy or sorrow from you may help greatly. It is never too late to try to undo a mistake. Deep down under the outrage and recreational mockery, we _are_ pulling for you. Most of us were wise-asses, and made plenty of social mistakes. Many of us here were happy to see your acknowledgment of your insensitivity. Keep it up. Growing up’s tough, but the alternative’s worse. ---
**Author:** ![jali](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecae2f/32.png) [@jali](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jali)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/195 "2010-08-02T15:48:42Z")
I just read the closed thread on the other board. Your second post - the one about the pill was the slap in the face. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/196 "2010-08-02T15:56:48Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Curtis, do let us know if you apologized to the parents on that other board. Fuck no, he hasn’t apologized and shows no signs of doing so. More’s the pity - it would not only be the right thing to do, it would improve his standing in both communities. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/197 "2010-08-02T16:02:29Z")
I’ll be perfectly honest, i read the thread title and agreed with it 100%. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/198 "2010-08-02T17:21:43Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > > I could say the same thing for why the fedeal government has taken the determination away from the states. > > > > You don’t think there is a recognition (or at least some reservation about whether or not a fetus is a human life. > > I’m not going to pretend the issue is cut and dried, no. Treating an embryo or a fetus as a person is ridiculous, treating it as nothing even close to a person is going too far in support of an argument that does not require it. But the answer to your question is politics. For a politician it’s easy to vote against an anti-abortion law but it’s almost impossible to vote against a law imposing harsher penalties on people who kill pregnant women. Do you think that might be perhaps because people think of the fetus as being a human life? Why is it that harsher penalties for killing pregnant women (and in some cases, causing a miscarriage) are the result of political expediance while opposing restrictions on abortion are not? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/199 "2010-08-02T17:31:52Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > > So, something like 35 states will prosecute someone who murders a pregnant woman of double homocide. Are yous aying that we add that second charge of homocide because of teh emotional distress caused by the loss of the fetus? :dubious: > > No, we do it because the anti-abortionists are trying to use it as a wedge issue to get killing fetuses declared legally murder, to bolster their arguments against abortion. You can justify them as I did…but that wasn’t why the laws were proposed in the first place. Didn’t you just say it was because of the emotional trauma? Now its a conspiracy by the pro-lifers to try and convince people that fetuses are people too? > [@](#): > > > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > > To use your analogy, we call rape “rape” because an actual rape occurred. if only unauthorized rubbing had occurred, we wouldn’t call it rape. > > No; rape IS “unauthorized rubbing” of a particular sort, which is why I used the term. It’s the emotional trauma that makes it such a serious crime. So if the rape victim didn’t wasn’t really traumatized by the rape, it wouldn’t be rape? WTF are you talking about? The charge of murder isn’t some sort of placeholder for the emotional distress of the expectant parents. The charge of murder is a charge of murder. It might be that there are reasons why we should allow abortions in some (even most) circumstances despite the fact that we would call it murder if done without the permission of the mother but lets not pretend that it is morally indistinguishable from an appendectomy. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/200 "2010-08-02T17:37:14Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Why is it that harsher penalties for killing pregnant women (and in some cases, causing a miscarriage) are the result of political expediance while opposing restrictions on abortion are not? Because the people who push the laws for harsher penalties are anti-abortionists who have a known and malignant agenda. Because they are people who show no concern for either fetuses or children except how to use them as weapons against women. And they probably are quite happy that the woman ended up dead. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399.md?page=11)