# Pro-Life=Fundamentalist Moron **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 29, 2010, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399 "2010-07-29T01:23:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/141 "2010-07-30T15:18:40Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > But this wasn’t the place. It wasn’t a debate. It was a guy whose wife had already made up her mind. He wasn’t looking to engage and defend his wife’s decision. He was just venting that it was a bad situation they were in and looking for a few words of support. It was a general forum and it’s an emotional & controversial topic. It wasn’t a pro-choice support forum. What Curtis said was out of line. That anyone might say anything less than positive was not. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/142 "2010-07-30T15:24:31Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > > I am more pro-life than the average person on this board and as a relatively pro-life father. I can imagine contemplating abortion. Why were they getting an abortion? > > The short version is that they couldn’t afford a child at this time, and his wife apparently has had issues with post-natal depression. > ETA: I tried to PM you the link but apparently you have that option turned off. Oh, in that case, the OP lacks empathy. As a father (and significantly more pro-life than msot of the board), it would literally bring me to tears if we had to choose between an abortion, giving up my child for adoption or providing for our current children. I think that if you have a lot of resources or a lot of extended family around, you can probably survive post-natal depression but if you have neither resources or s sufficient robust support system, it gets a lot tougher. I can’t help but think, “There but for the grace of God go I” I feel the same sort of sympathy for parents who find out that the fetus is going to be horribly disabled and would not be likely to survive childhood. I’d want to put a gun in my mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/143 "2010-07-30T15:25:51Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Abortion is legal. If you have a problem with that, try to get the law changed and good luck. > > Other than that, only give your opinion when it’s asked for. > **[First Amendment to the United States Constitution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_amendment)** > > The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prevents Congress from making laws respecting an establishment of religion; prohibiting the free exercise of religion; or abridging the freedom of speech, the freedom of the press, the freedom of assembly, or the right to petition the government for redress of grievances. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, as one of the ten amendments that constitute the Bill of Rights. In the original draft of the Bill of Rights, what is n... ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/144 "2010-07-30T15:25:57Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Don’t they have somewhere on that Board you can complain, instead of taking a crap here? Yes, yes they do. I happen to be a mini-mod over there, and really, we don’t appreciate people attempting to drag other boards into the debate. I was not aware of this situation, but I will look into it and bring it up to the other mods there if appropriate. At the least, what Curtis did was bad form. For better or worse, though, I have no such authority on this forum and it is up to the mods here what, if anything, to do about this mess. Seriously, Curtis, it’s no secret that Stardestroyer is predominantly atheists and vehemently pro-choice. Why are you surprised? Oddly enough, there ARE other pro life voices on [SD.net](http://SD.net), yet they manage to express their views without getting raked over the coals, Maybe that had to do with, I dunno, carefully choosing when to engage in debate and not crapping on the head of someone going through a horrible period of their life? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/145 "2010-07-30T15:26:54Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > 1: There is no way in hell that **Curtis LeMay** is a fourteen year old boy. The language he uses and the worldly knowledge displayed in this and other threads indicate a person of vastly advanced years. Something smells funny. :rolleyes: So what if he’s not a 14 year old boy. its not like people are treating him with kid gloves. ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/146 "2010-07-30T15:29:18Z")
Another point that I think is important is that not only is the couple struggling financially – and the wife is susceptible to both post- AND pre-natal depression, but their marriage is also very strained right now and they’re working to fix it. The guy and his wife knew that even carrying the pregnancy to term and then giving the baby up for adoption would be far more strain than they’d be able to weather. Their choice was whether to keep their family together or quite possibly destroy it. And AFTER the guy had revealed all of that, **Curtis** came in and asked why they weren’t using the Pill and condoms. I was amazed that the guy actually bothered to explain exactly what their contraceptive options were and why they selected the IUD. Dude is classy, seriously, and Curtis came across as looking even more a child than he normally does. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/147 "2010-07-30T15:31:01Z")
> [@missred](#): > > \ > IMO, should you choose to read with an open mind, I believe that you are intelligent enough to learn a few things from this board. Without an open mind, you cease to learn. That’s what bothers me about young Master **Curtis** ; he knows so very little about life, yet his mind is made up and closed already. I also don’t think there’s a lot of room for him to examine his faith and thereby strengthen it, and some famous person said faith unexamined is no faith at all. > [@SteveG1](#): > > \ > Very well said. I know, I’ve heard all the stuff about people, even Fundies being free to their beliefs. However, they refuse to extend that same respect and courtesy to anyone else. Not only that, but they consider themselves oppressed when they aren’t allowed unlimited freedom to oppress others. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/148 "2010-07-30T15:31:44Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@FriarTed](#): > > > > > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > > > > No, it shouldn’t be called the ending of a human life any more than the removal of an appendix is called the ending of a human life. > > > > It’s genetically human & it lives. If it were left alone, barring some natural problem, it would grow into a baby. > > No, if left alone it would die. As for being “genetically human”, so is that appendix. So is a human cell in a petri dish. So is someone brain dead, whom we can legally disassemble for parts. Being “genetically human” is not morally important. I don’t think that the concept of life is as binary as that. Does a fetus have all the characteristics of a new born baby? No. Does it have more of the characteristics of new born baby than an excised appendix? I think yes. If someone shot your pregnant wife in the belly killing the fetus but causing very little permanent damage to your wife. Shouldn’t society be able to charge that shooter with more than attempted murder of your wife? But how do we justify this if the fetus is little more than an appendix. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/149 "2010-07-30T15:34:17Z")
[QUOTE=Beadalin] and Curtis came across as looking even more a child than he normally does. [/QUOTE] I’m having a hard time imagining that, to be honest. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/150 "2010-07-30T15:36:46Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Ugh. I’m all outraged out today. But there’s nothing about Curtis that indicates that the is anything more than a typical 14 year old with Asperger’s being raised by parents who have taught him these things are wrong, but not taught him the appropriate times to mention it. > > I’m sorry, trolls are not that good at this. > But I will do this to get your attention: > > He has Asperger’s. Aspergers isn’t really an “lets take it east on the poor kid with aspergers” sort of disability. In Palo Alto, a lot of kids have smart but socially awkward parents and are themselves smart but socially awkward and they get diagnosed with aspergers when they are just smart but socially awkward, the incidence of diagnosis among boys is ridiculously high, it has reached epidemic proportions in some of the middle schools. Its like when we used to diagnose hyperactive kids as ADD when they were simply hyperactive. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/151 "2010-07-30T15:40:04Z")
> [@villa](#): > > This is a great example of the down side of the Internet. Back when I were a whippersnapper, we learned when things were appropriate to say and when things weren’t by the only method teenage boys understand - the infliction of pain. > > An acquaintance of mine discovered that even if one believes strikes are harmful to the economy and should be outlawed, one does not loudly opine in a London pub when sat next to two striking dockers that all strikers are lay abouts and the police should force them back to work. That way leads to being taken outside and given a kicking. > > Similarly, I learned that commenting to a friend in another pub on the hotness of a particular woman in less than chivalrous can be painful if her husband is stood directly behind me as I make the remarks. > > The internet, however, isolates you from the consequences of the inevitable teenage stupidity. You can call someone and his wife a murderer when they are in the middle of a traumatic experience, because you know you are safely anonymous and immune from the response you’d get if you did it to someone in person. So you’re saying aspergers is not omly communicable, it is the first disease to be transmitted by the internet. I’m gonna go get some hand sanitizer and rubber gloves. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/152 "2010-07-30T15:58:42Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Does a fetus have all the characteristics of a new born baby? No. > > Does it have more of the characteristics of new born baby than an excised appendix? I think yes. Not morally relevant characteristics, however. A fetus is expendable for the same reason a brain dead body can be disassembled for its organs; no one is there. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > If someone shot your pregnant wife in the belly killing the fetus but causing very little permanent damage to your wife. Shouldn’t society be able to charge that shooter with more than attempted murder of your wife? But how do we justify this if the fetus is little more than an appendix. We justify it the same way we justify punishing rape as worse than “unauthorized rubbing”, because of the emotional trauma caused to the actual live people involved. Not because of the destruction of something that is farther from being a person than a hamster is. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/153 "2010-07-30T15:58:58Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > > > Abortion is legal. If you have a problem with that, try to get the law changed and good luck. > > > > Other than that, only give your opinion when it’s asked for. > > [First Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_amendment) The First Amendment only applies to the Government’s ability (or lack thereof) to control speech. it has no bearing on societies rules governing the proper usage and application of said speech in the public sphere and has zero bearing on this discussion. The Government did not shut down **Curtis** ’ ability to state his opinion, the other members of his society are correcting his improper use of that ability. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/154 "2010-07-30T16:00:36Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Hi, **Curtis**. Just for the record, Jesus never said a word about abortion (actually, abortion is not mentioned anywhere in the Bible). > > Jesus DID say this: > > 1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. > > 3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. > **Mt. 7:1-13** > > I believe he also said something about only those without sin being able to cast stones. > If you’re going to follow the word of Jesus, follow it all the way. Well, there is this a commandment against killing. There is also a passage in the bible where I think the Mary (mother of Jesus) visits her 6 month pregnant cousin Elisabeth (mother of John the Baptist) and fetus John the baptist leaps in Elisabeth’s womb when he recognizes Jesus in Mary’s womb. This makes some Christians believe that life begins no later than the quickening or no later than the third trimester (of course others believe that life begins at conception (or even before). ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/155 "2010-07-30T16:24:39Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > It was a general forum and it’s an emotional & controversial topic. It wasn’t a pro-choice support forum. What Curtis said was out of line. That anyone might say anything less than positive was not. Well, life is a general forum, but if you know someone who is going to get an abortion, do you really think this is the time and place to be telling them they’re doing (what you consider to be) a bad thing? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/156 "2010-07-30T16:25:09Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > But I will do this to get your attention: > > He has Asperger’s. So do several other well respected members of [SD.net](http://SD.net) who manage not to threadshit on other posters. Apserger’s is not a “get out of jail free” card. They have to obey the rules, too. Sometimes they need them explained a little more thoroughly than other people do, but they still have to behave. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > > I am more pro-life than the average person on this board and as a relatively pro-life father. I can imagine contemplating abortion. Why were they getting an abortion? > > The short version is that they couldn’t afford a child at this time, and his wife apparently has had issues with post-natal depression. It actually goes beyond that, but I won’t disclose the personal information of someone else. Suffice to say that there was a LOT going on in that family besides an unwanted pregnancy they had taken considerable effort to avoid. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > At least according to the infallible, inerrant people at StarDestroyer BBS who has labeled me a “fundamentalist moron” Actually, I thought it read “Fundamentalist MORMON” and had a good laugh, but whatever… And while we’re not infallible and/or inerrant over there we are usually right. I applaud the actions of the mods over there for your new title and will take every opportunity to mock you at every opportunity wherever I happen to encounter you on the internet. In other words - _bwa-ha-HA! You thought you could ESCAPE but little did you know I am EVERYWHERE!!!_. > [@](#): > > The OP certainly didn’t say “Please don’t criticise me” and in fact he was polite and civil to me about the whole issue-it was the other members who raised a typhoon of excrement. That is because the gentleman in question IS a gentleman. You DESERVE the shitstorm you got there and you’re getting here. (And thanks, Doper mods, for leaving this thread open) > [@](#): > > If it was say a thread about a homosexual getting married or a man engaging in premartial sex I wouldn’t have commented but since this was the actual _murder_ of a fetus I felt compelled to say something. :dubious: Liar, liar, pants on fire. On Saturday, July 24 you DID post extensively in a thread on [SD.net](http://SD.net) regarding homosexual marriage (you are against it, of course). I won’t link to the thread in question but it does exist. Let me explain something, little boy - your means of expressing your views are hurtful in the extreme. And even if you run, even if you change your name, it’s fucking hard to hide on the internet. Not only were you a total asshat in running for sympathy elsewhere, but you compounded your bout of social diarrhea by trying to stir up conflict between two internet forums. Fortunately, the rest of those of us involved are all more adult than you and have behaved like civilized beings. You, however, have all the charm of a dog that refuses to be housebroken and shits in the center of the dinning room table during Thanksgiving dinner. Even though sympathetic to your viewpoint have pointed out that you way overstepped the line in _how_ you expressed your views. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/157 "2010-07-30T16:31:42Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > If someone shot your pregnant wife in the belly killing the fetus but causing very little permanent damage to your wife. Shouldn’t society be able to charge that shooter with more than attempted murder of your wife? But how do we justify this if the fetus is little more than an appendix. It’s charged as an aggravating circumstance of the crime against the woman. The woman is still the only victim. Nobody else was hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/158 "2010-07-30T16:35:39Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > > > Abortion is legal. If you have a problem with that, try to get the law changed and good luck. > > > > Other than that, only give your opinion when it’s asked for. > > [First Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_amendment) What does the First Amendment have to do with anything? Is anyone saying he should be arrested? We’re just talking about manners, not the law. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/159 "2010-07-30T16:44:48Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > Hi, **Curtis**. Just for the record, Jesus never said a word about abortion (actually, abortion is not mentioned anywhere in the Bible). > > > > Jesus DID say this: > > > > 1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. > > > > 3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. > > **Mt. 7:1-13** > > > > I believe he also said something about only those without sin being able to cast stones. > > If you’re going to follow the word of Jesus, follow it all the way. > > Well, there is this a commandment against killing. Which abortion is not, and which the Bible does not call murder. There are places, however, where God commands people to kill infants. > [@](#): > > There is also a passage in the bible where I think the Mary (mother of Jesus) visits her 6 month pregnant cousin Elisabeth (mother of John the Baptist) and fetus John the baptist leaps in Elisabeth’s womb when he recognizes Jesus in Mary’s womb. It’s Luke. It says that the fetus jumped when Elisabeth saw Mary because Elisabeth was “filled with the Holy Ghost.” It does not say that the fetus thought or recognized anything, and it doesn’t say that Mary was pregnant yet. Leviticus says that the penalty for killing a woman’ fetus is just a fine, by the way. It does not consider it to be murder. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399/160 "2010-07-30T17:07:05Z")
What I want **Curtis** to take away from this thread is that decisions regarding human reproduction are often extremely complex. Decisions such as who to have sex with, when to use birth control, when to have a baby, how many children to have, how to finance said children are incredibly complicated and offen vastly differ from person to person. His simplistic solutions, solutions that illustrate that he fails to understand that it’s not as easy as just don’t have sex or just have the baby and his over the top sanctimony about his utterly irrelevant religious ideas on such matters are very repellent. Asking him to understand that it’s not as simple or as easy as it seems in his very narrow little world and extremely limited scope of understanding is hardly unfair. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-fundamentalist-moron/548399.md?page=9)