# "Pro-Life means Anti-Drone" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 26, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-means-anti-drone/638972 "2012-10-26T20:57:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-means-anti-drone/638972/21 "2012-10-26T23:03:57Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > I think DT wants people to have the choice of killing CEOs with flying robots, not to make it mandatory or anything that extreme. “Have you killed your CEO today?” (said in the voice of one of those 1950s school slideshow narrators) ---
**Author:** ![I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/858c86/32.png) [@I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Made_French_Toast_For_You)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-means-anti-drone/638972/22 "2012-10-26T23:30:21Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > “Pro-Choice means Pro-Drone” > > Now there’s a splendid idea. Why don’t we shape national policy after what’s happened to ourselves recently. I haven’t used the bus recently; lets do away with public transportation. I haven’t been to the doctor recently; let’s do away with public health care. I haven’t been killed recently; lets do away with the police and legal system. I think it’s more along the lines of: a passenger who likes to ride around on buses for the hell of it, a hypochondriac who goes to the doctor too much, or a police officer shooting people before they can shoot him. Or not. I hate analogies. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-means-anti-drone/638972/23 "2012-10-27T00:41:15Z")
> [@humblebumble](#): > > The rules of the game keep changing, but the objective remains the same: to protect the people on the top tier. I don’t think that’s quite true… They also want to protect the vast wealth that makes the top tier so very comfortable for them, and that means protecting the economy, the infrastructure, etc. (What good is it having a whole bunch of fancy cars if there aren’t any roads?) Since domestic labor is a big part of what makes the economy function, the establishment has a real interest in keeping the working class from getting too hurt…or too riled. And, likewise, so long as the umbrella protecting Uncle Moneybags also, to a degree, protects everyone else, it is in everyone’s collective interest to maintain it. The days of Roman or Chinese Emperors is gone. Like him or hate him, the guy at the top tier is going to look more like Barack Obama than like Ming the Merciless, for the next century or so. Probably. (Still not willing to bet against “the singularity” or other substantial game-changer.) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-means-anti-drone/638972/24 "2012-10-27T00:44:57Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I don’t think that’s quite true… They also want to protect the vast wealth that makes the top tier so very comfortable for them, and that means protecting the economy, the infrastructure, etc. (What good is it having a whole bunch of fancy cars if there aren’t any roads?) Since domestic labor is a big part of what makes the economy function, the establishment has a real interest in keeping the working class from getting too hurt…or too riled. They seem to have largely forgotten that principle in the last few decades. Many of the self proclaimed elite seem to have bought into their own Randian propaganda about them being the source of all wealth, while the rest of the population are leeches. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-means-anti-drone/638972/25 "2012-10-27T20:04:40Z")
Very true…and incredibly self-destructive. It leads to them cannibalizing themselves for wealth, so that “the upper tier” becomes smaller and smaller. The “pyramid” is replaced by an obelisk…and that’s unsteady. In reality, a snake can only swallow itself a little, not “all the way.” Then it gets stuck and dies. But this is just observing that they are too stupid even to stick to their own objectives… It doesn’t, in itself, mean that the objective is a bad one. (And, yeah, I read “Atlas Shrugged,” not as a youth, but recently, as an adult. Engaging soap-opera reading, with some clever bits, but, ultimately, a failure: in reality, the world has plenty of second- and third-tier middle management execs who could easily keep the economy running just fine.) ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-means-anti-drone/638972/26 "2012-10-28T20:42:37Z")
There seems to be a concerted campaign on at the moment to try and demonise drones. If I didn’t know before, I definitely know now, that drones are hitting the terrorists where it really, really hurts. Looks like drones are definitely the way forward. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-means-anti-drone/638972/27 "2012-10-28T21:25:51Z")
From the Op’s cite, > [@](#): > > … The logic behind drone strikes is plain—the ability to eliminate terrorist targets with unmanned aircraft means we don’t have to endanger U.S. military personnel. … “The logic behind WWII nuclear strikes was plain—the ability to end Japan’s desire for a conditional surrender with nuclear weapons meant we didn’t have to endanger U.S. military personnel in an all-out invasion.” Why am I certain we won’t be seeing anyone writing _that_ at The American Conservative? CMC ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-means-anti-drone/638972/28 "2012-10-28T21:31:05Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > If I didn’t know before, I definitely know now, that drones are hitting the terrorists where it really, really hurts. :rolleyes: Of course, it couldn’t possibly be that anyone cares that we are killing plenty of people who aren’t terrorists, or that we are probably making more terrorists than we kill, or that people have concerns about the CIA being allowed to kill people with nearly no supervision and no public oversight. People who don’t like the indiscriminate use of drones have to all be terrorist sympathizers. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-means-anti-drone/638972/29 "2012-10-28T21:50:18Z")
Hey, it’s not Obama’s fault that the previous administration got us into a couple of stupid wars. He’s just the one who got stuck with trying to end them. Which he has even done, in one of the cases. If you don’t like the US fighting wars, don’t start them. And that goes double for vague, ill-defined wars. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-means-anti-drone/638972/30 "2012-10-28T22:28:12Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > :rolleyes: Of course, it couldn’t possibly be that anyone cares that we are killing plenty of people who aren’t terrorists, or that we are probably making more terrorists than we kill, or that people have concerns about the CIA being allowed to kill people with nearly no supervision and no public oversight. People who don’t like the indiscriminate use of drones have to all be terrorist sympathizers. I love you to death mate ! (And thats heart felt, no irony ) I don’t normally agree with you (though I have sometimes very rarely in the past ) and I don’t agree with you now. But yes there are people who are anti drone for purely selfless, if misguided reasons. BUT, when out of the blue we see all these apparently disparate posters, coincidentally protesting against something that, though its been used for quite some time has never been mentioned before, its not exactly rocket science sussing that this isn’t exactly a spontaneous protest against something that people feel deeply about. Yes they will carry along with them some who are either gullible, suggestible or really care about the subject. But orchestrated campaigns come about because the subject of the campaign is hurting terrorists badly, very badly. Eye wateringly badly. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-means-anti-drone/638972/31 "2012-10-28T22:34:23Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > BUT, when out of the blue we see all these apparently disparate posters, coincidentally protesting against something that, though its been used for quite some time has never been mentioned before, its not exactly rocket science sussing that this isn’t exactly a spontaneous protest against something that people feel deeply about. UAV strikes have been controversial for years. It’s not out of the blue. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-means-anti-drone/638972/32 "2012-10-28T22:38:28Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > UAV strikes have been controversial for years. It’s not out of the blue. Ah yes and thats why we’ve had so many posts, media shots etc. about it in the past . Oh but wait …! ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-means-anti-drone/638972/33 "2012-10-28T22:48:09Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > But orchestrated campaigns come about because the subject of the campaign is hurting terrorists badly, very badly. > > Eye wateringly badly. I find that highly implausible. The evidence I’m aware of is that it’s making anti-American groups (and not just “terrorists”) stronger. It’s making groups and issues that _never were_ about anti-Americanism _into_ anti-American movements. It doesn’t terrorize the terrorists; it demonstrates to the world that we are indiscriminate murderers just like them, but with better weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-means-anti-drone/638972/34 "2012-10-28T23:04:29Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > BUT, when out of the blue we see all these apparently disparate posters, coincidentally protesting against something that, though its been used for quite some time has never been mentioned before, its not exactly rocket science sussing that this isn’t exactly a spontaneous protest against something that people feel deeply about. …You _do_ know there’s a Presidential election coming up soon, right? That’s why I created my thread on this subject: to remind people that a vote for Obama is a vote for war crimes, human rights violations and attacks on the US Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-means-anti-drone/638972/35 "2012-10-28T23:35:34Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > I absolutely love everything about the Onion news network. > > [Could the Use of Flying Drones be Hurting America’s Reputation?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05UGYjB4Tyo) And the best comment from there: > [@](#): > > Imagine the horrible psychological damage US soldiers will have to face if they had to manually bomb those children! That’s just inhumane! The question is will a single eff be given? Probably not… ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-means-anti-drone/638972/36 "2012-10-28T23:42:52Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > …You _do_ know there’s a Presidential election coming up soon, right? That’s why I created my thread on this subject: to remind people that a vote for Obama is a vote for war crimes, human rights violations and attacks on the US Constitution. So is a vote not for Obama; that’s part of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Nanoda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Nanoda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanoda)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-means-anti-drone/638972/37 "2012-10-28T23:57:26Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > Ah yes and thats why we’ve had so many posts, media shots etc. about it in the past . > > Oh but wait …! Well, now I’m sorry I didn’t mention anything before. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-means-anti-drone/638972/38 "2012-10-29T00:22:56Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > …You _do_ know there’s a Presidential election coming up soon, right? That’s why I created my thread on this subject: to remind people that a vote for Obama is a vote for war crimes, human rights violations and attacks on the US Constitution. Personally, as a mere foreigner I think that by not voting for Obama you are losing yourself probably the best President you’ve had in, god knows many years. The most intelligent President that you’ve had in god knows many years. The world s economies have taken a very hard hit. Everyones suffering. This is in part due to some of your national leaders. And OUR national leaders. Obama COULDN’T turn piss into wine, and no one could create a miraculous recovery from a world recession. Unglamorous as it was, he’s made the best of a shit deal, left to him by gung ho thickos. He’s a F#ing good President, working well under the worst circumstances. Romney is what ever you want him to be, especially when you spoke to him last, totally F’king clueless. Not the sort of person you want to be in charge of your savings. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-means-anti-drone/638972/39 "2012-10-29T00:39:47Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > …You _do_ know there’s a Presidential election coming up soon, right? That’s why I created my thread on this subject: to remind people that a vote for Obama is a vote for war crimes, human rights violations and attacks on the US Constitution. So you should vote for the guy who would be in favor of MORE war crimes, MORE human rights violations and MORE attacks on the US constitution? I realize that they are both fairly right-wing, but why on earth would you support the one who is EVEN WORSE? Or do you propose that everyone on the left simply abstain, which will lead to the election of the guy who is EVEN WORSE? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-means-anti-drone/638972/40 "2012-10-29T08:52:50Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > So is a vote not for Obama; that’s part of the problem. Wrong. If you’re going to be a slave to this game theory bullshit, you should also remember that a single vote for Obama in a particular state is incredibly unlikely to be the thing that stops Romney becoming President. You can’t have it both ways. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > So you should vote for the guy who would be in favor of MORE war crimes, MORE human rights violations and MORE attacks on the US constitution? No, you should vote for Gary Johnson or Jill Stein, or for no-one at all. Hell, even a Romney presidency might be less destructive of human rights, if it means the Democrats start doing the right thing just to be contrary. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-means-anti-drone/638972.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-means-anti-drone/638972.md?page=3)