# Pro-Life, you claim? Willing to ACT on it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 31, 2004, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-you-claim-willing-to-act-on-it/247929 "2004-05-31T17:03:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Scopata\_Fuori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@Scopata\_Fuori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scopata_Fuori)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-you-claim-willing-to-act-on-it/247929/1 "2004-05-31T17:03:49Z")
Seems that plenty of (wo)men are willing and able, enthusiastic, even, about waving signs with grisly pictures or marching in front of women’s health centers in hopes of “saving” zygotes. So, I am confident that the most vociferous amongst you, of those who seek to preserve the fertilized ovum at any cost, will be the most ardently supportive of this request, and I will be inundated with legitimate offers to do what is necessary to save these eight lives. If sign-waving, spouting noisy, sanctimonious rhetoric, and sporting “pro-life” bumper stickers on your soccer-mom-mobile is the extent of your “activism”, then read no further. This endeavour is designed to save up to eight babies from Death by Defrosting, and is quite serious. Trust me, that “pro life” petition you signed, won’t result in one further human life from being thrust upon this burdened earth: but you have the power to definitively save _eight._ No more, but possibly a few less. It ain’t a perfect science. But eight’s a start. This is real. It is, quite literally, _up to you_. Put your beliefs where your womb is, so to speak. Ask yourself this: Am I willing to _save_ eight babies? Keep reading. Here’s the deal: I am the aunt to eight newly frozen embryos. The biological mother is unable to gestate the little fellows for medical reasons. For purposes of clarity, we shall tentatively identify them as Eggbert, Eggley, Eggison, Eggmund, Eggward, Eggleston, Eggtonio, and Zyggy. (Short for Zygote.) We shall refer to them, these pre-born products of conception, as the fully enfranchised human units you pro-lifer’s whole heartedly believe them to be. They currently reside, in a state of suspended animation, in a deep freeze in a noted fertility lab, awaiting implantation into a suitable host mother. And therein lies the opportunity for the Golden Grail of Pro-Lifery: the power to positively _prevent_ eight innocent pre-born infants from becoming Thawed Tots, to be washed down the drain with the day’s excess spunk harvest and the dregs from the clinic coffee pot. Think a day’s slogan-chanting and harassing women at the clinic, would get you that kind of results? Hardly. What, specifically, am I asking? I am offering to you, the opportunity to volunteer your womb, should you be in possession of one, to host one or more of those precious pre-born babies. Rather than those newly minted unborn people getting _aborted_ when the money to sustain their nitrogen sauna runs out, _you_ can incubate those babies and ensure they are brought kicking and screaming into the world! What a wonderful opportunity for you to _really_ make a difference! You didn’t _really_ think donating to the National Right to Life actually prevented a single fertilized ovum from getting hoovered, did you? Come on, now. You paid for slick ad campaigns, you paid for political contributions to anti-choice candidates, and your donation paid for ink to print up embellished, lurid photographs of fetii dead of many causes. But your cash never actually kept a zygote nestled in its uterine depths. You must surely know that. But now, you can prove your dedication to your cause, beyond any doubt. Volunteer to gestate these embryos. If you won’t, if you are able, then you’re a hypocrite. Won’t have the babies yourself, but you’re willing to coerce, shame, legislate others into it, whether they are willing or not. Come on, show your seriousness about babysaving, and gestate these pre-borns for us. We cannot, but the fecund amongst you can surely find it in your hearts to prevent the eventual thawing and flushing that will _end_ their _lives_. Think about it: Eight babies, in need of four to eight wombs. If you won’t do it, then they will die because _you_ were too selfish to provide the maternal hosting service you _insist_ that others _must_ endure. So it’s quite simple, really: you get to literally _save_ at least one _baby_ by agreeing to be implanted with one or more of the embryos, and carry it to term, and my sister or I will take over from there. After all, I’ve never heard a pro-lifer worry themselves with what happens to the child once it’s Born; the only important thing is getting that fetus gestated and Born. Alternately, for you who _truly_ believe that abortion is murder, yet are physically incapable of childbearing, such as those with more dangly bits, I can set up a PayPal site for you to donate generously to a fund set up expressly for the maintenance of these eight babies in their cryogenic hibernation. Or, preferably, to retain the services of a suitable surrogate (or surrogates, depending upon how many survive the freezing process). Thereby _guaranteeing_ the non-abortion of these eight precious pre-born babies. Remember, once the monthly fee isn’t paid, the abortion, er…the thawing occurs, and they embryos _die_. You don’t want to be responsible for the _murder_ of eight babies, by a sin of omission, do you? You _could_ have chipped in towards hiring healthy wombroom, you know, but you _chose_ not to, knowing eight babies’ lives _depended_ on it! How can you live with yourself, choosing to pay for another month of AOL, for a set of acrylic nails, or for a sack of pork rinds, when you _could have_ prevented an abortion instead? Serious offers of wombhosting only, please. Compensation provided. PayPal accepted for embryo defrost/abortion prevention. Scopata Fuori ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-you-claim-willing-to-act-on-it/247929/2 "2004-05-31T18:47:53Z")
If nobody volunteers, can they be donated to stem-cell research? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-you-claim-willing-to-act-on-it/247929/3 "2004-05-31T19:32:10Z")
I don’t particularly have a horse in this race (which probably means that I’m ‘pro-choice’ in practical terms, although I don’t identify with either of the extremes), but thisl ooks like a straw man argument for me; by analogy: I don’t think poor people should be forced to live on the street, but that doesn’t mean I’m prepared to let them all come and share my house (perhaps that makes me a bad person). Just because someone believes that a fertilised ovum is a human being with rights and that the destruction of zygotes is equivalent to murder does not necessarily compel them to personally step in and solve any number of cases of the problem that other people might happen to create. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-you-claim-willing-to-act-on-it/247929/4 "2004-05-31T19:36:25Z")
> [@](#): > > If you won’t, if you are able, then you’re a hypocrite. Won’t have the > babies yourself, but you’re willing to coerce, shame, legislate others into > it, whether they are willing or not. So… people are “hypocrites” if they exhort people to make better moral choices, but won’t personally shoulder the physical consequences resulting from those choices. So let’s say you had an alcoholic or drug addicted friend in need of a liver due to the effects of alcohol abuse. It would be hypocrisy for you to tell him he is committing personal suicide, and tell him he must change his behavior, without offering up a portion of your liver for transplantation, cause otherwise you’d be a _terrible_ hypocrite for letting him die. ---
**Author:** ![jawdirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df705f/32.png) [@jawdirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jawdirk)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-you-claim-willing-to-act-on-it/247929/5 "2004-05-31T20:20:36Z")
You say you’re so in favor of gun control. Well I’ll tell you what: I’m going to give you a shining opportunity to actually save some lives. I’ll let you buy my AK-47 for $100,000 before I take it up into the clocktower this afternoon… ---
**Author:** ![caphis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19adc/32.png) [@caphis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caphis)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-you-claim-willing-to-act-on-it/247929/6 "2004-05-31T20:27:59Z")
I’m very much Pro-Life, but apparently, I’m a hypocrite because I have no womb. Thanks for clarifying that for me. ---
**Author:** ![caphis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19adc/32.png) [@caphis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caphis)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-you-claim-willing-to-act-on-it/247929/7 "2004-05-31T20:35:15Z")
That should read “because I have no womb and no money”. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-you-claim-willing-to-act-on-it/247929/8 "2004-05-31T20:55:58Z")
Look, I’m entirely pro-choice, and even _I_ think you’re making a pretty thin assertion. The pro-life position that one should live with one’s own choices is exactly that. It doesn’t follow that one should have to live with _another’s_ choices too. You probably should have posted the OP to the Pit, too. It’s a bit rough. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-you-claim-willing-to-act-on-it/247929/9 "2004-05-31T21:19:05Z")
Agreed, the reasoning of the OP has some holes in it. But still I want to drop in and say she’s written a truly fine rant. I can just \*see \* her grabbing the megaphone to the crowd and delivering her speech, [fortissimo, presto, vivace, giocoso, animoso assai, con brio, con fuoco, marziale ma non troppo.](http://music.educate.home.att.net/Italterm.htm) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Scopata\_Fuori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@Scopata\_Fuori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scopata_Fuori)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-you-claim-willing-to-act-on-it/247929/10 "2004-05-31T21:35:58Z")
> [@astro](#): > > So… people are “hypocrites” if they exhort people to make better moral choices, but won’t personally shoulder the physical consequences resulting from those choices. . No, you’re missing the point by about six centimeters. People are hypocrites if they exhort others to subscribe to their own personal brand of “morality” and take a course of action that may or may not be in their best interest, yet are unwilling to support the outcome of that action. > [@astro](#): > > It would be hypocrisy for you to tell him he is committing personal suicide, and tell him he must change his behavior, without offering up a portion of your liver for transplantation, cause otherwise you’d be a _terrible_ hypocrite for letting him die. Heh. My point _exactly_. Scopata Fuori 🙂 “Bad Cat!” ---
**Author:** ![Scopata\_Fuori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@Scopata\_Fuori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scopata_Fuori)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-you-claim-willing-to-act-on-it/247929/11 "2004-05-31T21:38:45Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > If nobody volunteers, can they be donated to stem-cell research? I would certainly hope so. Unfortunately, the current regime in its paternalistic ominpotence, has seen fit to severely restrict such research. Ironically, the very type of research that might benefit the biological mother, so that she might have the chance to gestate the zygotes herself. Scopata Fuori “Bad Cat!” ---
**Author:** ![Scopata\_Fuori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@Scopata\_Fuori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scopata_Fuori)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-you-claim-willing-to-act-on-it/247929/12 "2004-05-31T21:42:12Z")
> [@caphis](#): > > I’m very much Pro-Life, but apparently, I’m a hypocrite because I have no womb. > > Thanks for clarifying that for me. Sheesh, people…the OP clearly stated that those without wombs, were not expected to offer gestational services, although helping with the cost of maintenance and/or the procurement of a suitable womb-for-rent would lend credibility to the “pro-life” argumentation. Scopata Fuori “Bad Cat!” ---
**Author:** ![caphis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19adc/32.png) [@caphis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caphis)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-you-claim-willing-to-act-on-it/247929/13 "2004-05-31T21:43:26Z")
> [@Scopata Fuori](#): > > Sheesh, people…the OP clearly stated that those without wombs, were not expected to offer gestational services, although helping with the cost of maintenance and/or the procurement of a suitable womb-for-rent would lend credibility to the “pro-life” argumentation. > Scopata Fuori > “Bad Cat!” Please read the following post. ---
**Author:** ![Scopata\_Fuori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@Scopata\_Fuori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scopata_Fuori)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-you-claim-willing-to-act-on-it/247929/14 "2004-05-31T22:16:31Z")
> [@caphis](#): > > That should read “because I have no womb and no money”. That’s quite alright. I am not implying that everyone who is “pro life” should immediately proffer their services, as points of view differ on quite a broad spectrum. For instance, I personally don’t _agree_ with selecting a fetus for termination based on its gender (unless there’s a genetic defect at issue), but I would never attempt to harangue someone into accepting my moral stance. Rather, those who actively work to deny others their reproductive choices, ought to be the _first_ to support the results of the _only_ choice they believe shold be available. No straw man argument here: no, I don’t believe the poor should be _forced_ to live on the streets, but if I am going to wave signs and _demand_ that they be given homes and shelters at society’s expense, then I will back up my belief by volunteering for Habitat for Humanity. Or working with or donating to the local homeless shelter. I’m not going to insist that my fellow taxpayers take on an additional load, while refusing to take positive action _myself_ to remedy the evil. Likewise, those rabid fetus lovers who would willingly legislate away a scared 15 year old’s choice to abort, aren’t exactly lining up to fund her hospital bills, or buy her diapers or baby formula. Sure, plenty of 'em will happily welcome a healthy white newborn, but are nowhere to be found when a black newborn has been brought unplanned and unwanted into this world. And how many are going to willingly take in a FAS child, born into a large, neglected family living on society’s fringes and its largesse? My point is, if you talk the talk, then walk the walk. Put your bloody signs down and save a fetus instead of just insisting that others do so. Scopata Fuori “Bad Cat!” ---
**Author:** ![caphis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19adc/32.png) [@caphis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caphis)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-you-claim-willing-to-act-on-it/247929/15 "2004-05-31T22:18:39Z")
> [@Scopata Fuori](#): > > My point is, if you talk the talk, then walk the walk. > > Put your bloody signs down and save a fetus instead of just insisting that others do so. Alright. Given that I have no womb and no money, tell me what I should do. ---
**Author:** ![Scopata\_Fuori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@Scopata\_Fuori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scopata_Fuori)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-you-claim-willing-to-act-on-it/247929/16 "2004-05-31T22:28:26Z")
You can wish us good luck, in successfully bringing as many of these _planned_ and _wanted_ embryos into the world as humanly possible. Better yet, that my sister will be able to gestate them herself to a happy resolution. (Er, one or two at a time!) Scopata Fuori “Bad Cat!” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![caphis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19adc/32.png) [@caphis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caphis)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-you-claim-willing-to-act-on-it/247929/17 "2004-05-31T22:29:43Z")
And that’s more effective than sign-waving… how? ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-you-claim-willing-to-act-on-it/247929/18 "2004-05-31T22:41:20Z")
> [@caphis](#): > > I’m very much Pro-Life, but apparently, I’m a hypocrite because I have no womb Pretty much my position, and plenty of sensible others too. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-you-claim-willing-to-act-on-it/247929/19 "2004-05-31T22:52:08Z")
I’ve always wondered- if I accidently spill a test tube of sperm and a test tube of eggs together, do I have to personally cultivate any fertilized eggs that result? If I just wipe it up with some lysol and go on with my life, have a committed mass murder? ---
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-you-claim-willing-to-act-on-it/247929/20 "2004-05-31T23:01:14Z")
> [@Scopata Fuori](#): > > Likewise, those rabid fetus lovers who would willingly legislate away a scared 15 year old’s choice to abort, aren’t exactly lining up to fund her hospital bills, or buy her diapers or baby formula. Sure, plenty of 'em will happily welcome a healthy white newborn, but are nowhere to be found when a black newborn has been brought unplanned and unwanted into this world. And how many are going to willingly take in a FAS child, born into a large, neglected family living on society’s fringes and its largesse? This is a perfectly pittable comment, but I’ll keep it civil… …I don’t know about where _you_ live, but where _I_ live, the same pro-life group that organizes rallies and carries banners, etc., also runs a shelter/home/whatever that provides for the hospital bills, diapers, formula, job training and etc. regardless of race, physical handicap (of the child or the mother) or even religious creed. These young women actually have a chance to make a full life after the fact, and even in spite of whatever circumstances may have brought about the situation. These people are definitely putting their money where their mouth is… …as far as choice goes, my personal opinion is that the girl/woman made the choice when she decided to have sex. Sex=pregnancy - show me where it’s not naturally so… …and I’m not here to argue about rape/incest/medical necessity. At less than 1% (or thereabouts) it’s statistically insignificant. Now, had I the wherewithal to assist in your issue, I probably would, but I’m not wealthy and my wife is unable to carry to term any longer, after three children of our own. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-life-you-claim-willing-to-act-on-it/247929.md?page=2)