# Pro-lifers: Help me understand the exceptions for rape and incest **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 1, 2011, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-help-me-understand-the-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/587493 "2011-07-01T10:53:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-help-me-understand-the-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/587493/81 "2011-07-06T13:38:18Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > So in other words, in jtgain’s mind, a fetus is a person with the same rights as you or I, as long as it doesn’t inconvenience its mother in ways HE finds unacceptable. I don’t know what jtgain’s mind holds but I do know that I’d rather not see abortions although I come down (finally) in the camp of letting the mother (and I’d like to see father input as well) choose. In my perfect world, if the mother didn’t want the baby but the father did, she’d carry to term. WOW I know. (I mean they both made the choice to have sex) They should both be able to have the same choices. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-help-me-understand-the-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/587493/82 "2011-07-06T13:43:04Z")
Then do you think he should be able to force her to have an abortion, if she wants the child and he doesn’t? I mean, why should his opinion not be given equal weight in EITHER instance, right? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-help-me-understand-the-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/587493/83 "2011-07-06T14:09:49Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Then do you think he should be able to force her to have an abortion, if she wants the child and he doesn’t? I mean, why should his opinion not be given equal weight in EITHER instance, right? Why would there be a forced abortion if she wanted the child? She would carry it to term with no support from the father. (Again in my perfect world, the father would pay for all care during the pregnancy) Maybe I should have specified, that although the mother carries the baby to term (if the father chooses to keep), that would be the end of her maternal responsibilities. She would then give the baby over to the father to care for. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-help-me-understand-the-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/587493/84 "2011-07-06T14:18:57Z")
Because if you’re going to give him equal say over her body, might as well go all the way. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-help-me-understand-the-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/587493/85 "2011-07-06T14:28:22Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Because if you’re going to give him equal say over her body, might as well go all the way. Equal say for 9 months vs equal say over the life of their unborn child? I’d say it was a fair trade. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-help-me-understand-the-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/587493/86 "2011-07-06T14:45:46Z")
You’d be incorrect. Find a way to carry it yourself, and THAT would be a reasonable solution. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-help-me-understand-the-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/587493/87 "2011-07-06T14:54:38Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > You’d be incorrect. Find a way to carry it yourself, and THAT would be a reasonable solution. I’d agree to those terms. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-help-me-understand-the-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/587493/88 "2011-07-06T14:58:05Z")
Please stop calling them pro-lifers. That term is incorrect; they are anti-abortionists. Or anti-choice, if you prefer. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-help-me-understand-the-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/587493/89 "2011-07-06T14:59:13Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > I’d agree to those terms. Excellent, now we’ve solved everything. Quite a day’s work. Oh, wait… ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-help-me-understand-the-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/587493/90 "2011-07-06T17:17:18Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Excellent, now we’ve solved everything. Quite a day’s work. > > Oh, wait… There’s a story about a guy who goes to the butcher and asks to buy some steak. the butcher says, $10/pound. “But the butcher down the street would sell it to me for $5/pound if he had any.” “I’d sell it to you for that much if I didn’t have any also.” It’s easy to sign up for those terms if they are impossible. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-help-me-understand-the-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/587493/91 "2011-07-06T17:19:49Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Please stop calling them pro-lifers. That term is incorrect; they are anti-abortionists. Or anti-choice, if you prefer. Well, I wanted to keep this positive, so I used the terms they call themselves. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-help-me-understand-the-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/587493/92 "2011-07-06T17:30:44Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > It’s easy to sign up for those terms if they are impossible. Pretty much. Way I see it, of course men are allowed to have an opinion about abortion, sanctity of life, yadda yadda yadda… but any man who says that pregnancy isn’t a big deal is a straight-up mean, petty, and ignorant fuck who needs to have a 20lb weight hung from his balls for nine months. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-help-me-understand-the-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/587493/93 "2011-07-06T17:55:22Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Pretty much. Way I see it, of course men are allowed to have an opinion about abortion, sanctity of life, yadda yadda yadda… but any man who says that pregnancy isn’t a big deal is a straight-up mean, petty, and ignorant fuck who needs to have a 20lb weight hung from his balls for nine months. Oh, sure. That’s easy for you to say, since you don’t have them. You would never say something like that if you could actually have a 20lb weight hung from your balls. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-help-me-understand-the-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/587493/94 "2011-07-06T17:58:21Z")
Hey, I was gonna go with 50lbs, but then I thought that maybe y’all weren’t just making that up about the pain and suffering involved in having weights hung from your balls, just to shirk your responsibility to… well, I can’t think of a good analogy there at the moment. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-help-me-understand-the-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/587493/95 "2011-07-06T18:28:47Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Hey, I was gonna go with 50lbs, but then I thought that maybe y’all weren’t just making that up about the pain and suffering involved in having weights hung from your balls, just to shirk your responsibility to… well, I can’t think of a good analogy there at the moment. 😉 Since we are on about pain and suffering. Let’s not take into account the pain and suffering (because that is a long drawn out and irrelevant sidebar) of the unborn child. BUT, how is 9 months of pregnancy any greater burden than caring for a child through its adolescence? Oh wait… ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-help-me-understand-the-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/587493/96 "2011-07-06T18:40:51Z")
It’s adorable that you think that’s a clever response. It’s not a greater burden, necessarily. Thing is, that doesn’t matter unless you can figure out some way for you to care for that child through adolescence that doesn’t involve me having to carry it in my body for nine months. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-help-me-understand-the-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/587493/97 "2011-07-06T18:49:55Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > It’s adorable that you think that’s a clever response. > > It’s not a greater burden, necessarily. Thing is, that doesn’t matter unless you can figure out some way for you to care for that child through adolescence that doesn’t involve me having to carry it in my body for nine months. I don’t particularly look at things in “adorable” or “clever” ways, I look at them fairly and logically. You, the woman, can forcibly demand income for the child that you choose to keep. I’m not even advocating a reversal, merely a re-drawing of the already skewed line. Can you say the same? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-help-me-understand-the-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/587493/98 "2011-07-06T18:52:39Z")
Actually, I can’t. I can get a court order, which you are free to ignore if you don’t mind living in such a way as to make it impossible for the courts to find you. And personally, I’d be happy to live in a world where men had a legal right to refuse responsibility for children they don’t want, as long as they do it in plenty of time for a woman to have an abortion, if she’s not interested in being a single parent. But as for pregnancy, it’s not my fault the line is skewed, it’s biology. You aren’t the boss of my body. Nothing to be done for it. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-help-me-understand-the-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/587493/99 "2011-07-06T20:35:08Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > … personally, I’d be happy to live in a world where men had a legal right to refuse responsibility for children they don’t want, as long as they do it in plenty of time for a woman to have an abortion, if she’s not interested in being a single parent. I think I’d be okay with that, assuming the moral, financial, legal and logistical obstacles put in place to make it more difficult for women to get abortions **glares at South Dakota** no longer existed as well. > [@DianaG](#): > > But as for pregnancy, it’s not my fault the line is skewed, it’s biology. You aren’t the boss of my body. Nothing to be done for it. This may be a weird tangent, but it struck me that this is very similar to the biology-based problems that crop up along gender lines for hetero dating couples in their early to mid 30s. The man may not be \*quiiiite \*ready for marriage and babies just yet - maybe they’ve only been dating for a year, let’s say - but the woman has a ticking time clock to address. It may not seem fair, but it’s biology, and there ain’t shit you can do about it. ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-help-me-understand-the-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/587493/100 "2011-07-07T04:28:19Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > So can pregnancy and childbirth. > It is obvious. What’s less obvious is why they would _approve_ of the exceptions, which is why the OP is asking _that_ question instead. Oops. Carry on everyone.. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-help-me-understand-the-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/587493.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-help-me-understand-the-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/587493.md?page=6)