# Pro-lifers: What would you do if you were in charge? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 10, 2003, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-what-would-you-do-if-you-were-in-charge/174396 "2003-05-10T22:22:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2012, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-what-would-you-do-if-you-were-in-charge/174396/201 "2012-08-09T13:04:56Z")
> [@badger5149](#): > > Well aruvgan, the woman has a chlise of what she can do with her body, she chose to get impregnated. The baby is the one who is getting chopped up without giving his permission, does the baby have any say in what is done with his or her body? Most women who choose to abort did not choose to get pregnant! Many children who are born to women who did not want them suffered a lot during their whole life. I know several who were abused,unloved, and were let it known by the women who were their mothers! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2012, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-what-would-you-do-if-you-were-in-charge/174396/202 "2012-08-09T13:09:12Z")
> [@Weeping\_Wyvern](#): > > I just thought of a rather interesting penalty for women who commit abortion - monthly “child support payments”, equal in value to what she would have reasonably paid for the raising of her child had she not aborted it. The payments end, naturally, 18 years after the child would have been born. This punishment would go a long way toward eliminating the “I have to abort because I can’t afford another kid” argument, since now you’re going to have to pay the money regardless of if you actually have the kid or not. > > And what happens to all the funds from these “child support payments”? They go, naturally, to poor pregnant women who choose to actually keep their babies. The same should be for the people who force a woman to have children they can’t afford,can’t care for,can’t educate etc. that would be a drain on society. Many with out the money for medical expences would die, or live a miserible life for perhaps many years…then that would okay since they were forced to be born? ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2012, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-what-would-you-do-if-you-were-in-charge/174396/203 "2012-08-09T13:32:21Z")
I consider myself pro-life. However, if I were in charge, my approach would not be to criminalize getting or providing abortions. Instead I would do things like: - make sure comprehensive sex education (including but not limited to common methods of contraception) are taught in schools; - provide affordable or free health care to women, including family planning and contraception services; - establish a national network of adoption services to match couples who want to adopt with mothers who don’t want to keep their baby; - provide job training and subsidized child care for working mothers Basically, I would enact as many programs as I could to 1) reduce unwanted pregnancies and 2) remove barriers to bringing unwanted babies to term. The net result, I believe, would be a very sharp drop in the number of abortions, while respecting the rights of mothers and doctors and not throwing people into jail. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-what-would-you-do-if-you-were-in-charge/174396/204 "2012-08-09T17:17:06Z")
I’m extremely pro-choice…and I think that **Skammer’s** ideas would indeed result in a very sharp drop in the number of abortions. And I’d be delighted with reducing the need for abortions. Reducing the need for abortions would reduce the amount of misery in the world. If both sides can agree that part of the solution is to reduce the need for abortions in the first place…why aren’t we doing these things already? Instead, we have abstinence only sex ed, and in some places it’s hard to get family planning or birth control at an affordable cost. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-what-would-you-do-if-you-were-in-charge/174396/205 "2012-08-09T17:47:55Z")
Unfortunately Lynn, while you and I could agree on these types of actions, I’m an anomaly on the pro-life side. Public sex education? Government subsidies? Federal beauracracy? Sounds damn near _liberal_! That’s reason #16 why I Could Never Be Elected. ---
**Author:** ![Weeping\_Wyvern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@Weeping\_Wyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weeping_Wyvern)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2012, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-what-would-you-do-if-you-were-in-charge/174396/206 "2012-08-09T18:02:08Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Do you believe in freedom of religion, since abortion is a religious matter? Um no, actually it’s not a religious matter. The Bible never specifically says abortion is wrong. I am perfectly willing to concede that some things Christians believe - such as matters of sexual morality - are motivated by religious laws, but abortion is not one of them. I oppose abortion for exactly the same reason that (most of) the world opposes murder. > [@monavis](#): > > Strange, but, even in the case of an adult killing another there are many different reasons( according to the law) that all killings are not considered Murder. And I guess the woman has no chance of self defence to a person who would force her to put her life on the line to satisfy their religious beliefs. Of course women can practice self-defense - but they should defend themselves against the men who try to impregnate them, not the innocent child. And once again, it has nothing to do with religion. > [@monavis](#): > > A man’s sperm contains human life and even with each ejaculation the results in a pregancy, many human lives are lost! Sperm isn’t human life any more than a lost hair is a human life, because they have the same genes as the person they came from. And neither one will ever become a baby, on its own. But the moment the genes of the mother and father are united, you have a brand-new combination of genetic materiel which never existed before - a new human being. And this being WILL become a baby, unless something specific is done to prevent it. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No; abortion is simply a convenient club to use. Plus of course they’ve had sex, which sets off the religious hatred of many believers. Oh dear. If we hate sex so much, why do we do it so often? > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No, because then they wouldn’t suffer. And they’d never actually be women. Suffering is irrelevant - unless you think it’s fine to kill someone painlessly in his sleep. And anything that has two X chromosomes and isn’t an animal is a woman. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It’s a thing, not a person. The woman is a person. Therefore, her needs and desires take precedence. And forcing her to go through pregnancy and birth is a punishment, which causes significant suffering and medical consequences, some permanent. And then there’s the emotional trauma of being reduced to the status of a breeding animal as a deliberate humiliation and punishment. I’m very confused, because this paragraph doesn’t seem to relate to my statement at all. I was talking about mothers who already have given birth, and now need our help. But anyhow, the medical consequences for the aborted fetus are much more permanent and severe than those for the mother. > [@monavis](#): > > The same should be for the people who force a woman to have children they can’t afford,can’t care for,can’t educate etc. that would be a drain on society. Many with out the money for medical expences would die, or live a miserible life for perhaps many years…then that would okay since they were forced to be born? I agree that no one should ever be forced to have children, so I don’t see what your point is. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-what-would-you-do-if-you-were-in-charge/174396/207 "2012-08-09T20:24:13Z")
If abortion is murder, then any woman who even thinks about it should be considered an unfit mother, and be forced to give birth and have the child taken away and adopted by a real family. One of the goddam stupidest anti-abortion arguments I’ve heard is how it deprives “loving couples” (read: male and female couples) from creating a “new family.” ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-what-would-you-do-if-you-were-in-charge/174396/208 "2012-08-10T12:54:27Z")
> [@Weeping\_Wyvern](#): > > Um no, actually it’s not a religious matter. The Bible never specifically says abortion is wrong. I am perfectly willing to concede that some things Christians believe - such as matters of sexual morality - are motivated by religious laws, but abortion is not one of them. I oppose abortion for exactly the same reason that (most of) the world opposes murder. > Of course women can practice self-defense - but they should defend themselves against the men who try to impregnate them, not the innocent child. And once again, it has nothing to do with religion. > Sperm isn’t human life any more than a lost hair is a human life, because they have the same genes as the person they came from. And neither one will ever become a baby, on its own. But the moment the genes of the mother and father are united, you have a brand-new combination of genetic materiel which never existed before - a new human being. And this being WILL become a baby, unless something specific is done to prevent it. > Oh dear. If we hate sex so much, why do we do it so often? > Suffering is irrelevant - unless you think it’s fine to kill someone painlessly in his sleep. And anything that has two X chromosomes and isn’t an animal is a woman. > > I’m very confused, because this paragraph doesn’t seem to relate to my statement at all. I was talking about mothers who already have given birth, and now need our help. But anyhow, the medical consequences for the aborted fetus are much more permanent and severe than those for the mother. > > I agree that no one should ever be forced to have children, so I don’t see what your point is. It is a religious matter, Biologically we are animals, a few cells will become a person if left to grow, just as a fertile chicken’s egg is not a chicken! If you ordered 3 dozen chickens and paid $4.00 dollars apiece, for a party you were giving, I doubt you would be pleased with 3 dozen fertile eggs! We share DNA with other living things. Chimps have over 90% of our DNA. I wonder if you understand my point. If carrying a child to term would place the Mother’s health in danger, she has the right to her life(that is important too)!and in a situation where she already has a child or other children who are starving she has the right to protect the already born. To answer your other statement,their are many times a woman has no control over her body or if her birth control failed. If a woman has been taught (or brain washed as in some cases) to believe Birth control is a sin then she loses control of her rights(in a way) to use her body as she wishes! I know such a woan very well, and she was pregnant almost all her childbearing years, and her children were abused and suffered for it all their lives. If a man’s sperm doesn’t contain life there would be no conception! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-what-would-you-do-if-you-were-in-charge/174396/209 "2012-08-10T13:00:10Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I consider myself pro-life. However, if I were in charge, my approach would not be to criminalize getting or providing abortions. Instead I would do things like: > > - make sure comprehensive sex education (including but not limited to common methods of contraception) are taught in schools; > - provide affordable or free health care to women, including family planning and contraception services; > - establish a national network of adoption services to match couples who want to adopt with mothers who don’t want to keep their baby; > - provide job training and subsidized child care for working mothers > > Basically, I would enact as many programs as I could to 1) reduce unwanted pregnancies and 2) remove barriers to bringing unwanted babies to term. > > The net result, I believe, would be a very sharp drop in the number of abortions, while respecting the rights of mothers and doctors and not throwing people into jail. One can be both Pro-life and Pro-choice, they just want the life of the already born to be as important (or more so) than a few cells that “will become” a person if the mother chooses to permit it to be. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-what-would-you-do-if-you-were-in-charge/174396/210 "2012-08-10T13:24:01Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > One can be both Pro-life and Pro-choice, they just want the life of the already born to be as important (or more so) than a few cells that “will become” a person if the mother chooses to permit it to be. Don’t get me wrong; I believe that an unborn baby is (not “will become”) a person. But I also recognize the practical realities that 1) a sizeable portion of the population will never agree with this and 2) outlawing abortion is both unfeasible politically, and ineffective while the circumstances that drive decisions to abort remain in place. So if you want to eliminate as many abortions as possible (which I do), the smart strategy is not to try to eliminate the choice by legislation but address the reasons that women choose to abort and to give them viable alternative options. And, of course, help them avoid getting pregnant in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-what-would-you-do-if-you-were-in-charge/174396/211 "2012-08-10T13:35:28Z")
> [@Weeping\_Wyvern](#): > > Um no, actually it’s not a religious matter. Yes, it is mostly a religious matter. You don’t find much secular opposition to abortion. > [@Weeping\_Wyvern](#): > > I oppose abortion for exactly the same reason that (most of) the world opposes murder. Nonsense. A fertilized egg is not a person, and doesn’t fit the criteria normally used to define killing something as “murder”. > [@Weeping\_Wyvern](#): > > But the moment the genes of the mother and father are united, you have a brand-new combination of genetic materiel which never existed before - a new human being. And this being WILL become a baby, unless something specific is done to prevent it. More nonsense. A large percentage of fertilized eggs die on their own. And a few cells are not a person. > [@Weeping\_Wyvern](#): > > Suffering is irrelevant - unless you think it’s fine to kill someone painlessly in his sleep. And anything that has two X chromosomes and isn’t an animal is a woman. Suffering isn’t irrelevant, it’s the point of the anti-abortion movement. And a fertilized cell or a six year old girl is not a woman. Nor is a female-to-male transsexual, and there’s probably some other variations out there I can’t recall at the moment. It’s not as a simple as XX = woman, XY = man. > [@Weeping\_Wyvern](#): > > . But anyhow, the medical consequences for the aborted fetus are much more permanent and severe than those for the mother. Irrelvant. A fetus is thing, a woman is a person no matter how hard you try to reduce her to something subhuman. > [@Weeping\_Wyvern](#): > > I agree that no one should ever be forced to have children, so I don’t see what your point is. You just want to punish women who have abortions; somehow that doesn’t count as an attempt to “force” them to have children in your eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-what-would-you-do-if-you-were-in-charge/174396/212 "2012-08-10T16:53:15Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > You just want to punish women who have abortions; somehow that doesn’t count as an attempt to “force” them to have children in your eyes. Cut back on the personal commentary, please. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-what-would-you-do-if-you-were-in-charge/174396/213 "2012-08-11T12:27:20Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Don’t get me wrong; I believe that an unborn baby is (not “will become”) a person. But I also recognize the practical realities that 1) a sizeable portion of the population will never agree with this and 2) outlawing abortion is both unfeasible politically, and ineffective while the circumstances that drive decisions to abort remain in place. So if you want to eliminate as many abortions as possible (which I do), the smart strategy is not to try to eliminate the choice by legislation but address the reasons that women choose to abort and to give them viable alternative options. And, of course, help them avoid getting pregnant in the first place. Having had 2 miscarriages many years ago and asking the doctor to show me, there was nothing that looked like a baby(or person) just a little clot. I have also saw pictures of embryo’s and they do not yet have the form of a human being. it was difficult to tell the difference between a human and embyro’s of other animals. I agree we should do all we can to heip a woman who doesn’t feel she is ready to be a mother, to prevent pregnancy to begin with. Many do not want a woman to use the Morning after pill in the case that she “MIGHT” be pregnant. Now they call it taking a life, even if it is not a conception. to me that is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-what-would-you-do-if-you-were-in-charge/174396/214 "2012-08-11T18:50:31Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Many do not want a woman to use the Morning after pill in the case that she “MIGHT” be pregnant. Now they call it taking a life, even if it is not a conception. to me that is wrong. I’m so annoyed every time I hear someone say they’re against the morning after pill for that reason, just because it makes no sense. The morning after pill doesn’t do anything that other hormonal birth control can’t do. Like those stupid pharmacists who will dispense the pill but not the morning after pill. They either need to have their certification revoked immediately for having no idea how extremely common drugs function, or they’re being disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-what-would-you-do-if-you-were-in-charge/174396/215 "2012-08-11T21:14:15Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > Abortion is murder, the penalties should be the same regardless of the age of the vicitim. As far as leaving the country, those people get off scott free, as they do for any other crime which is a crime here, but not there. Those who “assist” in murder(doctors, nurses, receptionists, owners of the clinic, parents, boyfriends, etc), should get the same penalties as those who assist in any other murder - the death penalty or life in prison. > > I definitely prefer execution, because the cost of imprisoning 30 million baby murderers for life, would be in the trillions of dollars. Perhaps many states who dont have the death penalty, would change and reinstate the death penalty under the staggering costs of imprisoning so many doctors, nurses, and women. > > I see no exceptions for those who were raped, or who’s life is in danger(except in those cases where the child will surely die anyway - very very rare(and in those cases, a governors pardon is in order). I think it is awesome that you love life so much that you are willing to execute 30 million people. God must be very proud of you. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-what-would-you-do-if-you-were-in-charge/174396/216 "2012-08-12T16:16:42Z")
Get rid of legalised abortion and you’ll open the doors to illegal abortions, and desperate women trying to self abort. With the deaths involved . Though to at least some so called “Pro Lifers” (What an oxymoron) the victims would deserve it as a punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Weeping\_Wyvern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@Weeping\_Wyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weeping_Wyvern)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-what-would-you-do-if-you-were-in-charge/174396/217 "2012-08-12T17:54:19Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Yes, it is mostly a religious matter. You don’t find much secular opposition to abortion. Most pro-lifers seem to be religious, yes, but correlation does not imply causation. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Suffering isn’t irrelevant, it’s the point of the anti-abortion movement. My cover has been blown! Now all the world knows I am a sadist. _cackles maniacally and uncoils my whip_ > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And a fertilized cell or a six year old girl is not a woman. Nor is a female-to-male transsexual, and there’s probably some other variations out there I can’t recall at the moment. It’s not as a simple as XX = woman, XY = man. Oh very well, I’ll say “women and girls” if you prefer. (I entirely disagree about the “transsexual”, but that would be another thread.) > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Irrelvant. A fetus is thing, a woman is a person no matter how hard you try to reduce her to something subhuman. That’s pretty ironic, given that while I have never said that women lack anything at all compared to men, here you are quite literally claiming that the fetus is indeed subhuman. > [@Lust4Life](#): > > Get rid of legalised abortion and you’ll open the doors to illegal abortions, and desperate women trying to self abort. > > With the deaths involved . > > Though to at least some so called “Pro Lifers” (What an oxymoron) the victims would deserve it as a punishment. The argument of “If we ban it people will do it anyway” can equally apply to any crime - be it arson, burglary, or abortion. No one expects that a law will eliminate the undesired behavior - the point is that we are deterring it, and sending a clear message that civilized society does not approve of those acts. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-what-would-you-do-if-you-were-in-charge/174396/218 "2012-08-12T18:17:19Z")
Abortion is in no way comparable to arson or burglary, and civilized society does not send a clear message that it doesn’t approve of it, nor should it. However civilized society HAS sent a clear message that some of the actions of so called “Pro Lifers”, is completely abhorrent to it by enacting laws against murder,assault, harassment and vandalsim. Why in the 21st c should we be bullied by people whos beliefs pervert religion in a medieval way, to ascribe sentience to biological clockwork, that has the same sentience as a sperm, an ova or a lettuce ? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-what-would-you-do-if-you-were-in-charge/174396/219 "2012-08-12T23:49:43Z")
> [@Weeping\_Wyvern](#): > > Most pro-lifers seem to be religious, yes, but correlation does not imply causation. In fact considering that most people in the US are religious most pro-abortion folks in America are probably also religious. > [@Lust4Life](#): > > Why in the 21st c should we be bullied by people whos beliefs pervert religion in a medieval way, to ascribe sentience to biological clockwork, that has the same sentience as a sperm, an ova or a lettuce ? Actually in the Middle Ages abortion was tolerated up to quickening, it was during the 19th Century in the general growth of political and economic freedoms and rights that abortion became a crime from conception. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-what-would-you-do-if-you-were-in-charge/174396/220 "2012-08-13T00:21:00Z")
> [@Weeping\_Wyvern](#): > > Most pro-lifers seem to be religious, yes, but correlation does not imply causation. The fact that they do so because their religion tells them to does, however. It’s rather irritating how “correlation does not imply causation” has turned into a rhetorical tool used to evade responsibility. > [@Weeping\_Wyvern](#): > > That’s pretty ironic, given that while I have never said that women lack anything at all compared to men, here you are quite literally claiming that the fetus is indeed subhuman. Because it is. It’s not a person, it isn’t even close to a person. It is less of a person than a dog or a cat, or even a mouse. And you just want to treat women as subhuman without admitting you’re doing so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-what-would-you-do-if-you-were-in-charge/174396.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-lifers-what-would-you-do-if-you-were-in-charge/174396.md?page=12)