# Pro-Obama Dems: No more Clinton-bashing, please! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 9, 2008, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-obama-dems-no-more-clinton-bashing-please/440776 "2008-03-09T23:13:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-obama-dems-no-more-clinton-bashing-please/440776/21 "2008-03-10T05:19:26Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] Anyone ever hear of _Republicans for Obama_? I have. It’s obvious Republicans are terrified of Hillary and will do almost anything to get Obama the nomination so McCain can wipe the floor with him. [/QUOTE] No, we’re not terrified of her; we just can’t frickin’ _stand_ her! 😃 (And for pretty much the same reasons that so many of the Democratic posters around here are railing against her now.) Secondly, there are a surprising number of Republicans who genuinely like and trust Obama. I’m one of them. I won’t be voting for him, but I’ll be a lot less unhappy if he gets elected than I would be if Clinton is. I think once in office he’ll see himself very much as everyone’s president, not just the Democrats, and that he’d listen to and honestly strive to accomplish what he feels the people want. Clinton, on the other hand and despite her many other flaws, appears to feel she already knows what’s best for everyone and is determined to cram it down our throats. Third, many Republicans don’t feel that McCain is all that much of a conservative anyway. And fourth, the country seems ready for change and in need of a cooling down period, and if a Democratic president is going to happen anyway it might as well be someone of integrity and character rather than one who so clearly isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-obama-dems-no-more-clinton-bashing-please/440776/22 "2008-03-10T05:35:19Z")
Well, sort of. First, we have the “kicking their sorry asses out” period, then maybe the “cooling down” period. Then the spanking, and then the oral sex. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-obama-dems-no-more-clinton-bashing-please/440776/23 "2008-03-10T05:38:15Z")
And then the cigar. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-obama-dems-no-more-clinton-bashing-please/440776/24 "2008-03-10T05:55:59Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] Yes, because rank-and-file Republicans are all monolithic zombies who only do what their evil overseers tell them. There are a lot of registered Republicans and independents who are just plain tired of the modern gay-baiting, religion-drenched, anti-choice Republican party and are excited about Obama because he’s offering a change from the last 14 years of government-as-armed-camps. [/QUOTE] As I understand it, free thinking individual Texan Republicans helped Hillary take Texas. But I’m unaware of any organized “Republicans for Hillary” movement. Individual Republicans seem to like Hillary’s relative conservatism. No one knows what Obama is, other than “hope.” I guess he’s somewhere between liberal and conservative. There is a Republicans for Obama group, despite no one knowing if he’s more liberal or conservative. I’m suspicious of their motives in supporting him. They certainly don’t plan on voting for him in November. As for “gay-baiting, religion-drenched, anti-choice Republican party” politics Hillary is already a safe and refreshing change. She’s clearly pro-choice, not particularly religious, and her husband already tried to get gays equal rights in the military. What’s Obama’s stance on these issues? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-obama-dems-no-more-clinton-bashing-please/440776/25 "2008-03-10T06:45:41Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] What’s Obama’s stance on these issues? [/QUOTE] You confuse your own ignorance with a lack of substance on Obama’s part. Some good faith research would remedy that problem rather quickly. Or are you one of those Clinton supporters who complains about having to actually look at a candidate’s position papers? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-obama-dems-no-more-clinton-bashing-please/440776/26 "2008-03-10T06:51:42Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] You confuse your own ignorance with a lack of substance on Obama’s part. Some good faith research would remedy that problem rather quickly. Or are you one of those Clinton supporters who complains about having to actually look at a candidate’s position papers? [/QUOTE] Oh, that’s right. This is the pit. Shove your good faith research up your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-obama-dems-no-more-clinton-bashing-please/440776/27 "2008-03-10T06:53:04Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] Oh, that’s right. This is the pit. Shove your good faith research up your ass. [/QUOTE] I’ll take that as a “no, I prefer to remain ignorant.” Suit yourself. But you know, not knowing the positions of the politicians you discuss does reduce your credibility just a tad. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-obama-dems-no-more-clinton-bashing-please/440776/28 "2008-03-10T07:01:11Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] No one knows what Obama is, other than “hope.” [/quote] No, no one knows anything about him. He’s an enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in mystery. Ooooooooo. > [@levdrakon](#): > > I guess he’s somewhere between liberal and conservative. There is a Republicans for Obama group, despite no one knowing if he’s more liberal or conservative. How do you know what they know or don’t know. > [@levdrakon](#): > > I’m suspicious of their motives in supporting him. They certainly don’t plan on voting for him in November. Wow, do you have the next super lotto numbers, too? > [@levdrakon](#): > > As for “gay-baiting, religion-drenched, anti-choice Republican party” politics Hillary is already a safe and refreshing change. She’s clearly pro-choice, not particularly religious, and her husband already tried to get gays equal rights in the military. Wow again. You really don’t know your candidate very well at all, do you? Hillary’s [not](http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/327623.aspx) [particularly](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/06/us/politics/07clinton-text.html?pagewanted=print) [religious](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/05/politics/main2885701.shtml)? I think she would beg to differ. Oh yeah, and we should really praise her husband on his pro-gay stances, because “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” was so courageous, as was that fucking travesty DOMA. There simply aren’t enough rolleyes in the universe for that. > [@levdrakon](#): > > What’s Obama’s stance on these issues? [See for yourself](http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/alexokrent/gGggJS). ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-obama-dems-no-more-clinton-bashing-please/440776/29 "2008-03-10T07:06:00Z")
BG, you should probably get used to the idea that if Hillary wins the nomination, the closest the Dems will get to the White House will be the immigrant laborers hired to mow the grass in the lawn. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-obama-dems-no-more-clinton-bashing-please/440776/30 "2008-03-10T07:09:28Z")
If she’s so universally despised, where are all those votes coming from? ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-obama-dems-no-more-clinton-bashing-please/440776/31 "2008-03-10T07:10:58Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] If she’s so universally despised, where are all those votes coming from? [/QUOTE] She’s not universally despised, obviously. She’s just the winner of every “who would you never vote for, no matter what?” poll that’s been taken, by a long shot. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-obama-dems-no-more-clinton-bashing-please/440776/32 "2008-03-10T07:20:38Z")
The problem is that a lot of people seem to consider elections as the Final War Between Good And Evil (albeit one held every four years). Their side, obviously, is Good. The other side, by default, must be Evil. With stakes that high, it’s not just about supporting one candidate’s chances to win an election; it’s about saving civilization, humanity, life as we know it, and/or the universe. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-obama-dems-no-more-clinton-bashing-please/440776/33 "2008-03-10T07:48:42Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > If she’s so universally despised, where are all those votes coming from? She’s not ‘universally’ despised - though why not is a mystery to me. Still, if you consider that roughly one-half of the country (Republican) either detest her or can otherwise be counted on not to vote for her…and roughly one-half of the remaining half of Democrats either detest her or choose to vote for her opponent…that leaves roughly one out of four voters nationally who are voting for her now. Some of these people actually admire her - even around here such incredible statements can be found. Others vote for her simply because she’s a woman, and others vote for her because they’re desperate for government-provided health care and feel she’s the one they feel is most likely to make it happen. And some vote for her because they think (correctly, no doubt) that her presidency will really be another Billary presidency, only with the roles reversed and Bill likely calling more of the shots. In the general election - should she manage to become the nominee - these people will still vote for her, plus she’ll gain the lion’s share of the voters currently supporting Obama. This means the Republicans who are currently supporting Obama will swing over to McCain. A certain number of Democrats who supported Obama will either stay home or reluctantly cast their votes for McCain. And virtually every strong, anti-Democrat Republican in the country is going to evangelize their ass off to get people to the polls to vote against her. (Note that I said ‘against’ Hillary rather than ‘for’ McCain.) Further, she is going to be up against a far more polished machine once the run-up to the general election begins, and the kinds of difficulties she’s been having throughout her campaign so far are likely going to be magnified severalfold. All in all, I’m guessing Hillary would pull around 40% of the vote in the general election. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-obama-dems-no-more-clinton-bashing-please/440776/34 "2008-03-10T08:04:24Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] Hillary’s [not](http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/327623.aspx) [particularly](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/06/us/politics/07clinton-text.html?pagewanted=print) [religious](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/05/politics/main2885701.shtml)? I think she would beg to differ. [/quote] Oh, for heaven’s sake. No one’s going to get elected if they aren’t all religiousy and stuff. She’s pro-choice and pro stem cell research. I’m sure she sits at home studying her bible every night. > [@](#): > > Oh yeah, and we should really praise her husband on his pro-gay stances, because “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” was so courageous, as was that fucking travesty DOMA. There simply aren’t enough rolleyes in the universe for that. At least he tried with DADT. He fucked up and I resented him, but he got a shit-hell-fire-storm of resistance over it. I blame my so-called “fellow” Americans for that. DOMA as well. > [@](#): > > [See for yourself](http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/alexokrent/gGggJS). Not bad. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-obama-dems-no-more-clinton-bashing-please/440776/35 "2008-03-10T08:19:01Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I voted for Obama myself in the primary (the Florida primary, HA! ☹ ), but face facts: It’s still entirely possible, at this point, that she **might** be the nominee. You should say nothing in the primaries that will reinforce the memes the Pubs will be using against her in the general. We **cannot** afford to risk another Republican administration! [/QUOTE] you know what? After seeing the post that \*\* Harborwolf\*\* provided about her latest attack I’m leaning towards willing to suffer McCain. I don’t think I can find it within myself to vote for Hillary. I have this thing about insincerity that makes her so incredibly distasteful to me its unbelievable. I’m afraid she’s supremely bash-worthy. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-obama-dems-no-more-clinton-bashing-please/440776/36 "2008-03-10T08:56:25Z")
…and apparently [she can’t even run a campaign](http://www.newsweek.com/id/120274?GT1=43001). (which, I suppose is evident). Yet she’s supposed to be the one that can get a call at 3 AM and solve a major crisis? I think we’re in for more Hillary bashing, alright. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-obama-dems-no-more-clinton-bashing-please/440776/37 "2008-03-10T09:04:46Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] But our real enemy isn’t the Republican Party, our truest enemy is the Apathy Party, the comfortable boredom of predictability that lulls the most powerful citizenry in human history into a fatalistic inertia. [/QUOTE] If only they voted for the sweeter face of the establishment. Fuck, I’m being fatalistic again. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-obama-dems-no-more-clinton-bashing-please/440776/38 "2008-03-10T11:38:12Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] As I understand it, free thinking individual Texan Republicans helped Hillary take Texas. But I’m unaware of any organized “Republicans for Hillary” movement. Individual Republicans seem to like Hillary’s relative conservatism. [/quote] That’s funny. Republicans that vote for Hillary are free thinking and Reppublicans that vote for Obama are part of a conspiracy to get him elected because they’re scared of Hillary. > [@](#): > > No one knows what Obama is, other than “hope.” So you get all pissy about Obama supporters that won’t vote for Hillary because they don’t have a reason except for being spoiled brats and you won’t even look into Obama’s plans to find out if he’s the best candidate. Does that mean that all Hillary supporters only do so out of name recognition and laziness? > [@](#): > > There is a Republicans for Obama group, despite no one knowing if he’s more liberal or conservative. I’m suspicious of their motives in supporting him. They certainly don’t plan on voting for him in November. As above, this cuts both ways and you are essentially guessing which group really supports and which one is part of a conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-obama-dems-no-more-clinton-bashing-please/440776/39 "2008-03-10T12:50:17Z")
Yeah, stop with all the bashing. Be more like Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![E72521](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dbc845/32.png) [@E72521](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E72521)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-obama-dems-no-more-clinton-bashing-please/440776/40 "2008-03-10T12:53:10Z")
I’ve always leaned left, but this go around I just can’t get excited about Clinton or Obama. I’m torn between staying home in November and promising not to bitch for four years, or voting for McCain. IMO the greater good would be served by not having the WH and Congress run by the same party, no matter how painful it would be to vote for another war monger. Aw, fuck it. I’ll just stay home. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-obama-dems-no-more-clinton-bashing-please/440776.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-obama-dems-no-more-clinton-bashing-please/440776.md?page=3)