# Pro sports franchise movement and expansion **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 8, 2010, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-sports-franchise-movement-and-expansion/552992 "2010-09-08T00:30:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![conway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ec9cab/32.png) [@conway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/conway)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-sports-franchise-movement-and-expansion/552992/21 "2010-09-08T20:56:02Z")
I agree…consolidation of talent would make the games more entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-sports-franchise-movement-and-expansion/552992/22 "2010-09-08T21:00:15Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > > It should be noted that Jacksonville has the highest ratio of season ticket sales to population of any NFL city, including Green Bay. > > I’m not sure that that’s really possible, given that the population of Jacksonville is around 800,000, while the population of Green Bay is about 100,000. Lambeau Field has roughly 73,000 seats, of which about 69,000 are season tickets. That gives a season-ticket/population ratio in Green Bay of 0.69. For Jacksonville to have a similar ratio (with their population), their stadium would have to have over a half-million season tickets. 🙂 > > Now, it’s possible that whoever came up with the “Jacksonville has the highest ratio of season ticket sales to population” factoid was only counting the Jacksonville market for the Jaguars, while counting the entire state of Wisconsin for the Packers (since, really, the Packers’ fan base covers Wisconsin, and beyond). Yes, it’s under the NFL’s listing of primary and secondary markets for each team. Jacknsonville’s metro population is actually 1.6 million, because all of Duval County is incorporated into the city limits. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-sports-franchise-movement-and-expansion/552992/23 "2010-09-08T21:08:58Z")
my Kings mistake. I was thinking purely of b-ball teams. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-sports-franchise-movement-and-expansion/552992/24 "2010-09-09T22:23:59Z")
> [@conway](#): > > The Lakers, Clippers, and Kings all share Staples Center, I’m sure it could be worked out. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Similarly, the Rangers, Knicks, Liberty and St. John’s Red Storm all share MSG. But doesn’t the ice suck at Staples Centre and MSG? I seem to recall hearing hockey reporters comment on poor ice especially on days where two teams have played games. All that pounding on the boards above has got to make it tough to maintain a smooth surface. For that matter, I think I’ve heard about issues at the Bell Centre following large concerts too! Not that poor ice conditions really play into decisions to move/expand franchises anywhere. I never want to see an NHL hockey team in Kansas City. It just seems wrong somehow! ---
**Author:** ![KennerTheGreat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a8b319/32.png) [@KennerTheGreat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KennerTheGreat)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-sports-franchise-movement-and-expansion/552992/25 "2010-09-09T23:20:07Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > > [@conway](#): > > > > The Lakers, Clippers, and Kings all share Staples Center, I’m sure it could be worked out. > > > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > > Similarly, the Rangers, Knicks, Liberty and St. John’s Red Storm all share MSG. > > But doesn’t the ice suck at Staples Centre and MSG? I seem to recall hearing hockey reporters comment on poor ice especially on days where two teams have played games. All that pounding on the boards above has got to make it tough to maintain a smooth surface. For that matter, I think I’ve heard about issues at the Bell Centre following large concerts too! > > Not that poor ice conditions really play into decisions to move/expand franchises anywhere. > > I never want to see an NHL hockey team in Kansas City. It just seems wrong somehow! Apparently the ice at Centre Bell is better than the ice at the Montreal Forum was, mainly because the Forum used to have a sand base underneath, and Centre Bell uses concrete. But yeah, MSG’s ice is notoriously lousy. Edmonton’s is supposed to be the best. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-sports-franchise-movement-and-expansion/552992/26 "2010-09-10T03:07:05Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > > [@conway](#): > > > > The Lakers, Clippers, and Kings all share Staples Center, I’m sure it could be worked out. > > > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > > Similarly, the Rangers, Knicks, Liberty and St. John’s Red Storm all share MSG. > > But doesn’t the ice suck at Staples Centre and MSG? I seem to recall hearing hockey reporters comment on poor ice especially on days where two teams have played games. All that pounding on the boards above has got to make it tough to maintain a smooth surface. For that matter, I think I’ve heard about issues at the Bell Centre following large concerts too! > > Not that poor ice conditions really play into decisions to move/expand franchises anywhere. > > I never want to see an NHL hockey team in Kansas City. It just seems wrong somehow! And San Jose. Anaheim, Dallas, and PHOENIX makes sense? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-sports-franchise-movement-and-expansion/552992/27 "2010-09-10T03:24:25Z")
You left out Tampa. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-sports-franchise-movement-and-expansion/552992/28 "2010-09-10T18:12:12Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > And San Jose. Anaheim, Dallas, and PHOENIX makes sense? :dubious: No, they don’t! I wanted Phoenix moved to Hamilton, and am strongly in favour of them moving back to the Peg next year. Move another team to Québec City so us Habs fans can renew our hatred for the Nordiques and get the other ridiculous sun belt teams to a place where they can at least break even, if not turn a profit! Another team in the GTA (as well as one in the Hammer) would also make a fortune. There must be other American markets which would be better than the existing ones, and if Winnipeg can pull it off then I think Halifax might even be able to eventually. Play the game somewhere where people give a fuck about it! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-sports-franchise-movement-and-expansion/552992/29 "2010-09-10T18:55:47Z")
Finland? ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-sports-franchise-movement-and-expansion/552992/30 "2010-09-10T19:12:11Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > > [@etv78](#): > > > > And San Jose. Anaheim, Dallas, and PHOENIX makes sense? :dubious: > > Play the game somewhere where people give a fuck about it! You mean like Toronto where 80% of their fanbase can’t recall when they won something? The thing that cracks me up about Maple Leaf fans is they act like their team is the Yankees, Cowboys, Dodgers, Colts, Lakers, etc. But the difference is those teams actually win titles! ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-sports-franchise-movement-and-expansion/552992/31 "2010-09-11T01:17:59Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > > [@mnemosyne](#): > > > > Play the game somewhere where people give a fuck about it! > > You mean like Toronto where 80% of their fanbase can’t recall when they won something? > > The thing that cracks me up about Maple Leaf fans is they act like their team is the Yankees, Cowboys, Dodgers, Colts, Lakers, etc. But the difference is those teams actually win titles! Right, but Leaf fans _care_ about how awesomely well the rebuilding is going this year, and they _care_ about the handful of games the Leafs have won, and in general give a fuck about the team because it’s _Original Six_\* and…and…well, they make a fuck of a lot more money than Phoenix, that’s for sure! The reason the GTA would be so good for another team is that a lot of Leaf fans are actually more fans of _Toronto_ and would cheer for any other team if they actually existed, which might actually result in MSLE attempting to put a decent team on the ice for a change. Also, ticket prices might become slightly closer to “affordable” if there really was local competition. The fact that 20% of attendees in Buffalo are from the GTA/Golden Horseshoe kind of speaks volumes about the level of hockey fandom in the region. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-sports-franchise-movement-and-expansion/552992.md?page=1)