# Pro Teams should use busses (Tyreek Hill) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Tags:** football-nfl\ **Created:** [September 10, 2024, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-teams-should-use-busses-tyreek-hill/1007038 "2024-09-10T00:48:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2024, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-teams-should-use-busses-tyreek-hill/1007038/61 "2024-09-11T02:42:06Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Thankfully we don’t live in a police state so it’s not their call to make. They can arrest someone, have the person booked and held for days, and then when it’s ruled out was unlawful they face no discipline and are immune from being sued. So totally not their call to make. Oh, they can also take any cash you have and keep and spend it (with a bit of paperwork). Totally not a police state. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2024, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-teams-should-use-busses-tyreek-hill/1007038/62 "2024-09-11T14:38:37Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I’m white, and if I kept yelling at the cop and rolling up my tinted window when he was trying to “give me an earful” as you say I would expect to be dragged out of the car and arrested at a _minimum_. So you are OK with being assaulted and unconstitutionally arrested for that? Why? Tyreek had already complied with producing his driver’s license. The officer had already turned to go back to his motorcycle to run the license when he gets all butt hurt that the window has gone back up. There is no law requiring people to have their windows down the entire time of a traffic stop. There are not laws which require drivers to answer questions outside of providing ID. The officer was on a power trip and acting outside of the scope of the law. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2024, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-teams-should-use-busses-tyreek-hill/1007038/63 "2024-09-11T14:54:37Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > There is no law requiring people to have their windows down the entire time of a traffic stop. Not specifically, but the officer has leeway to take measures to assure his safety. If you insist on keeping your hands out of view while you’re talking to him, he’s within his rights to order you out of the car so that he can keep an eye on your hands - and if you keep putting your hands in your pockets after that, he’s within his rights to handcuff you, at least for the duration of the stop. Similarly, if your window is so darkly tinted that the officer can’t see what you’re doing when you roll it up, then he’s within his rights to insist that you keep it down - and if you won’t, then he can order you out of the car. That said, the _violent_ extraction and to-the-ground takedown of Hill was over the top. If they’re gonna order someone to get out of the car, they need to provide an opportunity for compliance before escalating to force. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2024, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-teams-should-use-busses-tyreek-hill/1007038/64 "2024-09-11T15:00:35Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > So you are OK with being assaulted and unconstitutionally arrested for that? I am not Ok with being assaulted or unconstitutionally arrested in that or any situation. However if I disobey a lawful order from a lolice officer, and roll up my tinted windows which would potentially allow me to do something like prepare a weapon out of the officer’s view, then an arrest that follows would not be unconstitutional, and physical force used would not constitute assault. > [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > That said, the _violent_ extraction and to-the-ground takedown of Hill was over the top. If they’re gonna order someone to get out of the car, they need to provide an opportunity for compliance before escalating to force. This on the other hand is a fair criticism. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2024, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-teams-should-use-busses-tyreek-hill/1007038/65 "2024-09-11T15:05:13Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Not specifically, but the officer has leeway to take measures to assure his safety. If you insist on keeping your hands out of view while you’re talking to him, he’s within his rights to order you out of the car so that he can keep an eye on your hands - and if you keep putting your hands in your pockets after that, he’s within his rights to handcuff you, at least for the duration of the stop. I watched a couple videos by lawyers on this, and the Supreme Court ruling on this is that there has to be reasonable suspicion by the officer. In this case, they didn’t search Hill after violently dragging him out of his car, so obviously they weren’t concerned about weapons. It wasn’t the window tint. It was a power trip. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2024, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-teams-should-use-busses-tyreek-hill/1007038/66 "2024-09-11T17:17:50Z")
I’m impressed with the class that Tyreek is displaying. He acknowledges he could have responded better at the traffic stop. Still feels the officer overreacted and used too much force. The bodycam video clearly shows an officer handling the detainment very poorly. > **[NFL star Tyreek Hill admits traffic stop errors but says police ‘beat the dog...](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/sep/11/nfl-star-tyreek-hill-wants-officer-involved-in-traffic-stop-detainment-fired)** > > Miami Dolphins wide receiver Tyreek Hill acknowledged on Wednesday that he could have handled a weekend traffic stop differently > [@](#): > > “I will say I could have been better,” Hill said. “I could have let down my window in that instant. But the thing about me is, I don’t want attention. I don’t want to be cameras-out, phones-on-you in that moment. But at the end of the day, I’m human. I’ve got to follow rules. I’ve got to do what everyone else would do.” ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2024, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-teams-should-use-busses-tyreek-hill/1007038/67 "2024-09-11T17:27:39Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > What the cops did is inexcusable IMHO. The officer who stopped him asked him to lower his window. An officer needs to see a driver’s license, proof of insurance, a registration, etc, and it can’t be done through a closed window. In other words, Hill refused to obey police instructions and got belligerent. All this was captured on an officer’s body cam. I’m trying to figure out exactly when resisting arrest and/or civil disobedience became a “right”. Can anyone help me out with this? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2024, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-teams-should-use-busses-tyreek-hill/1007038/68 "2024-09-11T17:38:00Z")
It’s the officer’s impatience that bothered me. Barking orders without giving someone time to comply is a mistake. Modern training is intended to De-escalate. Rather than immediately using force. ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2024, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-teams-should-use-busses-tyreek-hill/1007038/69 "2024-09-11T17:53:44Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > The officer who stopped him asked him to lower his window. An officer needs to see a driver’s license, proof of insurance, a registration, etc, and it can’t be done through a closed window. In other words, Hill refused to obey police instructions and got belligerent. All this was captured on an officer’s body cam. I’m trying to figure out exactly when resisting arrest and/or civil disobedience became a “right”. Can anyone help me out with this? This is pretty accurate. An officer needs to see what is going on inside a vehicle that he has stopped at all times for a variety of reasons, particularly safety. Tyreek was being a prick for absolutely no reason. Just comply with the officer’s requests and you would be on your way in 5 minutes with (maybe) a ticket. That being said, the officer did really escalate the situation unnecessarily in my opinion. Very quick to pull him out and force him to the ground. All around stupid actions by everyone involved that could have been easily avoided. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2024, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-teams-should-use-busses-tyreek-hill/1007038/70 "2024-09-11T18:03:32Z")
Did you not notice the officer holding those exact things in his hand when he freaked out about the window? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2024, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-teams-should-use-busses-tyreek-hill/1007038/71 "2024-09-11T18:13:04Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > I’m trying to figure out exactly when resisting arrest and/or civil disobedience became a “right”. I’m trying to figure out when closing my car window became resisting arrest, and when being annoying became civil disobedience. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2024, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-teams-should-use-busses-tyreek-hill/1007038/72 "2024-09-11T18:16:48Z")
Yes, he wasn’t under arrest at the time, so by definition he couldn’t have been “resisting arrest”. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2024, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-teams-should-use-busses-tyreek-hill/1007038/73 "2024-09-11T18:19:14Z")
And he wasn’t cited for resisting arrest anyways. He got two tickets, reckless driving and not wearing a seatbelt. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2024, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-teams-should-use-busses-tyreek-hill/1007038/74 "2024-09-11T18:26:25Z")
NBC reports careless driving instead of speeding. > **[Tyreek Hill cited for careless driving in detainment fracas; Miami police ID...](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tyreek-hill-cited-careless-driving-detainment-fracas-miami-police-id-o-rcna170491)** > > A 27-year veteran officer, Danny Torres, is the target of an internal affairs investigation after the tense confrontation with the Dolphins wide receiver. > [@](#): > > Hill was accused of the violations that carry penalties of $179 for careless driving and $129 for failing to wear a seat belt, copies of the tickets showed. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2024, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-teams-should-use-busses-tyreek-hill/1007038/75 "2024-09-11T18:26:45Z")
Do we have any idea whether or not he was _driving_ without a seat belt? Because my viewing of the video tells me that I can’t rule out that he unbuckled it once pulled over, and then grabbed his driver’s license. Anybody know anything different, or see it differently? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2024, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-teams-should-use-busses-tyreek-hill/1007038/76 "2024-09-11T18:33:02Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Because my viewing of the video tells me that I can’t rule out that he unbuckled it once pulled over, and then grabbed his driver’s license. That sounds like a good argument to make to get that charge dropped. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2024, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-teams-should-use-busses-tyreek-hill/1007038/77 "2024-09-11T18:41:33Z")
Gah, so they “estimated” he was doing 60 and it turns out they can’t show that either? Some people need to learn that adding extraneous details can come back to bite you. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2024, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-teams-should-use-busses-tyreek-hill/1007038/78 "2024-09-11T18:43:11Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > I watched a couple videos by lawyers on this, and the Supreme Court ruling on this is that there has to be reasonable suspicion by the officer. > > In this case, they didn’t search Hill after violently dragging him out of his car, so obviously they weren’t concerned about weapons. > > It wasn’t the window tint. It was a power trip. Looks like you’re right. The Civil Rights Lawyer YouTube channel covers a lot of cases, and he’s already addressed this one. The video is 26 minutes long, but he talks slowly, so you can play it at 1.5-2X normal speed and still understand what’s being said. He spends the first 15 minutes reviewing footage and pointing out just the important specific facts of what happened, and then after that starts getting into case law. Short version: there’s a lot the cops did wrong here, including detaining Hill for a good twenty minutes before even beginning to take care of the reason for the stop (writing citations for his traffic violation). That by itself is an unreasonable seizure. And then of course the use of force, and handcuffs, neither of which (as you pointed out) was justified by reasonable suspicion. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/idtaZIdXIsw/maxresdefault.jpg "Were Tyreek Hill's Rights Violated? | Full Legal Breakdown") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idtaZIdXIsw) ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2024, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-teams-should-use-busses-tyreek-hill/1007038/79 "2024-09-11T18:43:35Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Gah, so they “estimated” he was doing 60 and it turns out they can’t show that either? If you drive past a cop at a high rate of speed, what should the cop do if they can’t clock you, ignore it? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2024, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-teams-should-use-busses-tyreek-hill/1007038/80 "2024-09-11T18:44:57Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I’m trying to figure out when closing my car window became resisting arrest, and when being annoying became civil disobedience. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Yes, he wasn’t under arrest at the time, so by definition he couldn’t have been “resisting arrest”. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > And he wasn’t cited for resisting arrest anyways. I was annoyed by this earlier, too, but as Pavelb1 pointed out, Florida law isn’t resisting arrest, just resisting the officers commands. > [@aceplace57](#): > > NBC reports careless driving instead of speeding. My guess is because a “visual estimation” is about the easiest thing to get thrown out of court, so they defaulted to not “having regard for blah blah traffic and all other attendant circumstances.” > [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Anybody know anything different, or see it differently? It’s a hard call to make, given the windows were so tinted the police were terrified for their safety. Neither circumstance would surprise me. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > If you drive past a cop at a high rate of speed, what should the cop do if they can’t clock you, ignore it? Not describe it with a specific number, especially given they didn’t ticket Hill for speeding? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-teams-should-use-busses-tyreek-hill/1007038.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-teams-should-use-busses-tyreek-hill/1007038.md?page=5)