# Probably Mitt's biggest flip-flop so far: He won't get rid of health care reform **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 9, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197 "2012-09-09T14:50:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/1 "2012-09-09T14:50:39Z")
[Or at least all of it.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/09/mitt-romney-obamacare-_n_1868385.html) :smack: How does this hurt him with the GOP base, if at all? ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/2 "2012-09-09T14:58:48Z")
Sounds like he’s starting to shake that Etch a Sketch. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/3 "2012-09-09T15:00:48Z")
> [@Mitt Romney](#): > > I also want individuals to be able to buy insurance, health insurance, on their own as opposed to only being able to get it on a tax advantage basis through their company. He goes on to say, ‘My plan is to ask the insurance companies very, very nicely to lower their rates so that people can buy insurance on their own.’ ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/4 "2012-09-09T15:04:04Z")
One problem is that it is hard to imagine a significant clause regarding insurance companies having to cover existing conditions without something to balance that out, like an individual mandate. It seems like the typical candidate claim that he can give you only the good stuff with no downside. ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/5 "2012-09-09T15:45:51Z")
Awwww… shake, shake, shake… shake, shake, shake… shake your Romney! Shake your Romney! (KC and Sunshine Band, Shake Your Booty") So, from the video… Romney is proposing to do what Obama has already done. Um… so he’s capitulating Obamacare? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/6 "2012-09-09T15:49:23Z")
Once again, I find myself agreeing with Romney 50% of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/7 "2012-09-09T15:55:11Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > One problem is that it is hard to imagine a significant clause regarding insurance companies having to cover existing conditions without something to balance that out, like an individual mandate. That’s why Democrats in Massachusetts supported the mandate. There’s nothing mysterious about this: if you make the insurance companies spend more money on sick people, you need to get them more revenue from people who pay premiums and have low medical costs. Romney knows all that because (did you guys know this?) he was governor of Massachusetts when they were created their health plan. So yes, this is a large flip-flop. Of course it’s also an acknowledgment of the obvious, which is that there were major elements of the health care system that needed changing and that the ACA accomplished that, and that undoing those changes benefits nobody and would upset a lot of people since the majority of people support those changes. Of course if the far right complains loudly enough we can expect a new suggestion from Romney by this time next week. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/8 "2012-09-09T15:56:40Z")
> [@Enkel](#): > > So, from the video… Romney is proposing to do what Obama has already done. Except, in typical Republican fashion, for the step where someone pays for it. The mandate is the only way short of just enrolling everyone in Medicare (which you don’t have the OPTION to not pay for) to keep the whole system from collapsing under the weight of the free-riders who won’t buy insurance until they’re sick, thereby weighting the risk pool against insurers. The only way to keep the insurance industry on board with the reforms of Obamacare (no rescissions, no disqualification for pre-existing conditions, etc) was to have the mandate in. Until we’re prepared, as a nation, to go to single-payer, the mandate is the only way to reform anything. As usual, the purported “financially responsible party” cooks their books by just forgetting to pay for things. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/9 "2012-09-09T15:57:46Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Once again, I find myself agreeing with Romney 50% of the time. That’s okay, actually. It’s a higher percentage of the time than he agrees with himself… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/10 "2012-09-09T15:58:30Z")
Another new software upgrade? What is this, Romney v12.03? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/11 "2012-09-09T16:21:37Z")
If the Republicans put a repeal bill on his desk, he’ll sign it. What he’s doing here is signalling that he supports some of the ideas in the bill. Which is fine, most Republicans do. That’s where ‘replace’ comes in, or Republicans will just rip out the parts of the bill they don’t like. ---
**Author:** ![Linden\_Arden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Linden\_Arden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linden_Arden)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/12 "2012-09-09T16:28:25Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If the Republicans put a repeal bill on his desk, he’ll sign it. What he’s doing here is signalling that he supports some of the ideas in the bill. Which is fine, most Republicans do. That’s where ‘replace’ comes in, or Republicans will just rip out the parts of the bill they don’t like. Why does he not say what part of HCR he does NOT want to keep? The mandate (loathed by both sides) is his baby. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/13 "2012-09-09T16:52:48Z")
No matter how he sugar coats this, I can’t imagine many Republicans are gong to be thrilled he is even mentioning keeping one iota of the dreaded “Obamacare”. This just begs for a political ad, showing him demanding to repeal the entire law and now showing him say, “Well, not all of it is bad…” It is no secret I am not a fan of Romney, but this slight hint of compassion and pragmatism prove three things to me: 1. He really did once have a heart and brain and guts to do something right and wants desperately to admit it and embrace the fact. 2. This is not so much flip-flopping as it is showing he has been pandering to the right wing all along, just to get elected. 3. Republicans shouldn’t trust a single thing he has said to date. This might just be a Sunday news blurb, but at this point in the election, this little glimmer of honesty might come back to bite him within his own party. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/14 "2012-09-09T17:41:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If the Republicans put a repeal bill on his desk, he’ll sign it. What he’s doing here is signalling that he supports some of the ideas in the bill. Which is fine, most Republicans do. That’s where ‘replace’ comes in, or Republicans will just rip out the parts of the bill they don’t like. …which, as we have pointed out, are the parts that pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/15 "2012-09-09T17:42:05Z")
I don’t know why _anyone_ should trust a single thing he has said to date. I agree that he’s pandering his ass off for the right-wing crowd but I don’t see how today’s flip flop means he’s doing anything but pandering to the rest of us. Just wait - he’ll have a clarifying statement out shortly. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/16 "2012-09-09T17:50:45Z")
He’s not the first Republican to admit that there are “good parts” to the ACA. No one ever seems to have an answer how you can have the “good parts” without the socialist death panel parts. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/17 "2012-09-09T17:52:39Z")
Call me nuts but I think this helps him with the Republicans. I’m not talking about the party leaders or the loud voices, but the republican voters who despite agreeing on the surface with the party that everything Obama has done is wrong, deep down want health coverage they can afford. Or the Republican voting base could be more nuts than I give them credit for. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/18 "2012-09-09T18:11:23Z")
As a Romney supporter, I agree that this is a huge blunder. You can’t have a law allowing people with pre-existing conditions to get coverage without a mandate. I’ll just wait until I’m on my way to the emergency room to buy insurance. He needs to get his shit together before this election is a total loss… ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/19 "2012-09-09T18:50:14Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > He needs to get his shit together before this election is a total loss.. Uh, it looks like it already is… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/20 "2012-09-09T18:54:41Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Call me nuts but I think this helps him with the Republicans. I’m not talking about the party leaders or the loud voices, but the republican voters who despite agreeing on the surface with the party that everything Obama has done is wrong, deep down want health coverage they can afford. I agree. Not about you being nuts. 🙂 About the rest of it. Romney doesn’t need to be more specific about this unless they try and nail him on it in the debates. And since our debates are so superficial, with 2 minute time limits, he just has to be able do a 2-minute jig around the issue saying something about state solutions, yada, yada, yada. And this is hardly much of a flip flop at all. He never said he wasn’t going to replace Obamacare, and there is no reason why his new proposal can’t have parts of Obamacare in it. What’s really disingenuous is the idea that he can, singlehandedly, repeal it. He can’t. He might not even be able to do that if the GOP keeps the House and wins the Senate. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197.md?page=2)