# Probably Mitt's biggest flip-flop so far: He won't get rid of health care reform **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 9, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197 "2012-09-09T14:50:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/21 "2012-09-09T19:45:26Z")
Romney then announced that we should go to war with Iran, but he’ll be doing it in a way that no one dies. And it’s free. And he’s repealing meals involving pizza and beer, but replacing them with meals involving pizza and beer but no calories. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/22 "2012-09-09T20:01:35Z")
It really is interesting that the party of tanstaafl believes so much more deeply in the concept of a free lunch than the “socialist” Dems do. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/23 "2012-09-09T20:10:07Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Romney then announced that we should go to war with Iran, but he’ll be doing it in a way that no one dies. And it’s free. And he’s repealing meals involving pizza and beer, but replacing them with meals involving pizza and beer but no calories. :rolleyes: Where was this? I watched the MtP interview today discussed in the OP’s link, but didn’t see him mention war with Iran in any other words that Obama hasn’t used-- ie, all options are on the table. > [@](#): > > GREGORY: What’s your red line? You put troops on the ground to stop Iran from going nuclear or can you live with a nuclear Iran and contain it? > > MR. ROMNEY: I don’t think we live with a nuclear Iran. I think we make it very clear that a nuclear Iran is unacceptable to the United States of America, to civilized nations throughout the world. And that we will maintain every option that’s available to us to keep that from happening. > > GREGORY: Two presidents have said the very same thing. Why can you succeed on Iran where they could not? > > MR. ROMNEY: Well, at the time President Bush was president, Iran was years away from a nuclear weapon. And he pursued diplomacy, as I can think we should continue to pursue diplomatic channels. We should pursue as well the kind of crippling sanctions that I’ve spoken about when I gave a speech at the Herzliya Conference five years ago. We need to use every resource we have to dissuade them from their nuclear path. But that doesn’t mean that we would take off the table our military option. That’s something which certainly every American would hope we would never have to use. But we have to maintain it on the table or Iran will, undoubtedly, continue their treacherous course. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/24 "2012-09-09T20:12:47Z")
… ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/25 "2012-09-09T20:14:10Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > [Or at least all of it.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/09/mitt-romney-obamacare-_n_1868385.html) :smack: > > How does this hurt him with the GOP base, if at all? So the idea is to get all the benefits without paying for them. Just like the two unfunded Bush wars. Oh, and a tax cut too. Think of Rainbow My Little Pony. Stars and colors - everything is wonderful in Mitt’s imaginary world. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/26 "2012-09-09T20:34:13Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > It really is interesting that the party of tanstaafl believes so much more deeply in the concept of a free lunch than the “socialist” Dems do. This is a thought that I’ve frequently had. ---
**Author:** ![Stately\_Greek\_Automaton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Stately\_Greek\_Automaton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stately_Greek_Automaton)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/27 "2012-09-09T20:59:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Where was this? I watched the MtP interview today discussed in the OP’s link, but didn’t see him mention war with Iran in any other words that Obama hasn’t used-- ie, all options are on the table. You don’t remember? It was after the healthcare announcement but before the beer and pizza announcement. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/28 "2012-09-09T21:53:20Z")
> [@](#): > > MR. ROMNEY: Well, at the time President Bush was president, Iran was years away from a nuclear weapon. And he pursued diplomacy, as I can think we should continue to pursue diplomatic channels. We should pursue as well the kind of crippling sanctions that I’ve spoken about when I gave a speech at the Herzliya Conference five years ago. We need to use every resource we have to dissuade them from their nuclear path. But that doesn’t mean that we would take off the table our military option. That’s something which certainly every American would hope we would never have to use. But we have to maintain it on the table or Iran will, undoubtedly, continue their treacherous course. Which should have been followed by: Gregory: AND THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT OBAMA HAS SAID YOU STUPID FUCK! So AGAIN how would you anything you do result in a different outcome? Would your hair scare them into being better, you empty windbag? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/29 "2012-09-09T22:10:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If the Republicans put a repeal bill on his desk, he’ll sign it. What he’s doing here is signalling that he supports some of the ideas in the bill. Which is fine, most Republicans do. That’s where ‘replace’ comes in, or Republicans will just rip out the parts of the bill they don’t like. So when Romney said as recently as a week ago that he would “repeal and replace Obamacare,” he actually meant he would _not_ repeal Obamacare. And your view is that when he says he will not repeal Obamacare, it means he _will_ repeal it if a repeal bill passes. This is really something. Romney has transcended mere flip-flopping to become a sort of Schrodinger’s Candidate, simultaneously holding all positions on an issue. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/30 "2012-09-09T22:42:38Z")
Gregory is waaaay too nice and jovial to host this program. They need someone at least as good as Russert, preferably better. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/31 "2012-09-09T23:08:24Z")
I didn’t hit on this in the OP, but all of this touches on what I’ve been saying throughout much of this campaign: chiefly, (1) that Mitt doesn’t really want to undo health care reform, and (2) that there is absolutely NO WAY WHATSOEVER - none, zero, zilch, nada - to reconcile his campaign promise to repeal the ACA with his actual record of an IDENTICAL state-level HC reform bill for which he had been on the record as championing as a national model. All of which is to say that Mitt secretly wants health care reform, yet his party decries any attempts at that as some kind of evil socialist pandering. When he shows his true colors, as in this interview here, that puts him at odds with the GOP and Tea Party bases, which he needs in order to win election. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/32 "2012-09-09T23:15:35Z")
Can I have my calorie-free pizza and beer with no gluten? Thanks, Mitt! ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/33 "2012-09-09T23:53:23Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > As a Romney supporter, I agree that this is a huge blunder. You can’t have a law allowing people with pre-existing conditions to get coverage without a mandate. I’ll just wait until I’m on my way to the emergency room to buy insurance. > > He needs to get his shit together before this election is a total loss.. Precisely, as the economist Paul Krugman points out ObamaRomneyCare is a three legged stool: Suppose you want to guarantee that insurance is available to people with pre-existing conditions. Well, you can establish community rating, requiring that insurance companies make the same policies available to everyone. But if you stop there, you know what will happen: healthy people will opt out, leaving behind a high-risk, high-cost pool. So you have to also have a mandate, requiring that people buy insurance. And you can’t do that without subsidies, so that lower-income people can afford their policies. The inexorable logic of the situation, then, leads to a three-legged stool of community rating + mandate + subsidies = ObamaRomneycare. The US faces the challenge of unsustainable increases in health care costs, driven our inefficient medical system, an aging population and high administrative overhead. The ACA was a pretty limited attempt to address the problem: the public option was disallowed. It does have some solid cost controls. But it’s really only a first step. Still, there’s no mystery about what Romney would do. He would sign anything handed to him by a Republican Congress. And Cantor has his own agenda. Romney can correctly say that he kept his campaign promises since they’ve been all over the map and contradictory. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2012, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/34 "2012-09-10T01:03:10Z")
When the Supreme Court ruled in late June that the ACA was Constitutional, Romney said he would “act to repeal it” _on his first day in office_. I found this on his website on a page titled “Mitt Romney: I Will Repeal Obamacare” with a URL ending Mitt-Romney-I-Will Repeal-Obamacare. Sounds like he was saying it was one of his top priorities. What he meant by that was parts of it are good and won’t be repealed. I understand he’s said positive things about some of the concepts and is only pretending to oppose the law to get votes, but the dancing hippos in Fantasia executed better pivots than this. [www.mittromney.com/news/press/2012/06/mitt-romney-i-will-repeal-obamacare-0](http://www.mittromney.com/news/press/2012/06/mitt-romney-i-will-repeal-obamacare-0) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/35 "2012-09-10T01:40:15Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > When the Supreme Court ruled in late June that the ACA was Constitutional, Romney said he would “act to repeal it” _on his first day in office_. I found this on his website on a page titled “Mitt Romney: I Will Repeal Obamacare” with a URL ending Mitt-Romney-I-Will Repeal-Obamacare. Sounds like he was saying it was one of his top priorities. What he meant by that was parts of it are good and won’t be repealed. I understand he’s said positive things about some of the concepts and is only pretending to oppose the law to get votes, but the dancing hippos in Fantasia executed better pivots than this. > > [www.mittromney.com/news/press/2012/06/mitt-romney-i-will-repeal-obamacare-0](http://www.mittromney.com/news/press/2012/06/mitt-romney-i-will-repeal-obamacare-0) Hmmm…I wonder which gives a greater incentive to be light on your toes: being chased by hungry crocodiles or being chased by rabid teapartiers? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/36 "2012-09-10T02:37:59Z")
I put “repeal Obamacare” in the same category as “close Guantanamo” in terms of campaign promises. Both things sound great to the base, but anyone with half a brain knows the president isn’t going to be able to do either. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/37 "2012-09-10T02:45:28Z")
There are a couple of different questions if you look at it that way: you could argue he shouldn’t have pledged to repeal it in the first place or you could say he might as well have stuck to the pledge since he couldn’t do it anyway. Or you could note that he said “act to repeal,” which is at least a promise about what Romney himself will do if not the ultimate outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/38 "2012-09-10T03:02:26Z")
Nothing to worry about, folks- [Mitt has already flip-flopped back.](http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/09/09/817671/romney-says-he-supports-popular-obamacare-provisions-on-nbc-quietly-reverses-hours-later-on-conservative-website/) ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2012, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/39 "2012-09-10T03:55:39Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Hmmm…I wonder which gives a greater incentive to be light on your toes: being chased by hungry crocodiles or being chased by rabid teapartiers? There’s a difference? > [@Smapti](#): > > Nothing to worry about, folks- [Mitt has already flip-flopped back.](http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/09/09/817671/romney-says-he-supports-popular-obamacare-provisions-on-nbc-quietly-reverses-hours-later-on-conservative-website/) Good Og, but this has reached the point where even a politically jaded old barnacle like me is beginning to get worked up over it. I know that politicians and shame are mutually exclusive, but at least they used to _pretend_ that the electorate were taking their Ritalin. (I did like the comment that requested the networks schedule two more debates: Romney v Romney, and Romney v Ryan. And the response that we still wouldn’t have a clue as to what they were about.) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2012, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197/40 "2012-09-10T04:29:49Z")
To paraphrase Mark Twain, “If you don’t like Mitt Romney’s policies, just wait a few minutes.” Will someone please tell this guy that the Internet exists? You can’t go on camera and suggest diametrically opposed policies to different audiences and just expect nobody to notice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/probably-mitts-biggest-flip-flop-so-far-he-wont-get-rid-of-health-care-reform/634197.md?page=3)