Probationary periods for employment are a crock... discuss

Great Debates
21

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by wring *
**

Wring-

I do admit that I work in kind of an unusual industry, but the mentality of the casino industry is leaking out into other types of businesses here in Vegas. We are talking about a state where labor law heavily favors the employer, and the casino industry represents the larges group of employers in town, possibly even the state.
The situation you describe of a place having mostly bad workers exists at my former workplace. Maybe a fourth of the people in the dice pit are good dealers with good attitutes who are cooperative and easy to work with. These people have all been there five years or more.

It’s primarily the three years or less crowd that is so bad. I wouldn’t say it’s an industry-wide thing, not yet anyway. But it is something that seems to be on the increase even in just the three years I’ve been in the business. People with poor dealing skills or skilled dealers with bad attitudes seem to be favored, at least in some of the lower end properties owned by the larger companies. Some companies are basically trying to run their high-rollers off of the lower end properties and encouraging them to play at the company’s more upscale, properties, or at newer properties that the company is trying to justify having sunk literally hundreds of millions of dollars into building. The cynical, paranoid streak in me does wonder if the companies are deliberately trying to get poor employees into the lower-end properties because someone who’s only playing a couple of hundred dollars wouldn’t expect the same level of service as someone who’s playing a couple of hundred grand and if they did, they would be less likely to toke the bad dealers.Tokes come primarily from bets placed by the customer for the dealers, and are money the casino can’t win back, therefore a low-end property has a vested interest in keeping tokes down.
Also, what about the situation where someone (me, for example) is a good worker and does their job correctly but a particular supervisor takes a dislike to them , or perhaps is trying to cover up for the fact that he/she is not paying proper attention to his/her own job, and when a problem results, falsely claims they are not following certain procedures? In a probation situation, that employee may not even be called into the office for the documented verbal warning, and thus not given an opportunity to answer a false accusation.

In all the companies I’ve worked for, the progressive disciplinary progress isn’t all that burdensome. It’s basically three progressive steps, then out the door, and the paperwork isn’t terribly complicated.

Also, in the casino industry, it is quite common, even usual, for dealers to be let go during probation without ever having been told they were not up to standards. A dealer I once worked with was let go on his 89th day. The reason given was an appearance standards violation. Basically, he needed a haircut. Nobody had said anything to him about his hair, and most of us don’t make that trip to the barber/beautician until we realize our hair is getting a bit out of hand. Really, this situation could have been handled by a floorman telling the guy to go get a trim, and if he refused, well, then take more severe action.

22

Thea I’d submit to you, then that you were not a casualty of “probationary periods” so much as you were a casualty of ‘poor management’ ‘bad supervisors’. both of which will and can exist in any environment.

23

Thea, it does seem that you have been treated rather unfairly, and you have my sympathies. I would consider your situation to be an example of an abuse of a system which can and does work well for many employers.

We have a 90 day probationary period, and in most cases, it works to the benefit of both employer and employee. Of course, at my job, you have to try very hard to get fired. I work in higher ed, we strive to be touchy-feely and full of warm fuzzies at all times. (Except for me. I am the Ice Queen of Higher Education. People walk by my office and whisper "I bet she could work in the private sector.} Sometimes people just don’t work out. We do try to give feedback if there are areas that need improvement during the probationary period (and after).

As a manager, I need to be secure in the knowledge that the employee is a good match for the job. We also have a 60 day review in my department, where you must formally sit down with the employee and identify, in writing, any areas that need improvement. If I decide someone isn’t working out after the 90 period, and the 60 day review was positive, I have to state my case to my boss and the HR department, and explain what changed between 60 and 90 days. This has never happened to me personally, and I think it has only happened a few times in my 12 years in the department.

Oh, I just realized that it’s 90 days for some positions, and 6 months for positions that might have a longer learning curve. It’s not that we want even more time to possibly fire the 6 month people, it’s that we want to give them plenty of time to learn the job.

Overall, I would say my place of work has a pretty good track record with this policy. Yes, there is potential for abuse, but as an employer, the institution wants to make sure the policies function, not dysfunction (I think I made up that verb), or we would find it difficult to attract good applicants. From the situation you described, I think my complaint would be with the company/industry, not the policy.

24

Wring and delphica, you both have valid points.

But given the fact that in a couple of different casinos I’ve worked at the probation period seems to do little or no good as far as keeping the bad apples from permanent employment, and the fact that I’ve seen quite a few good dealers who didn’t make probation at different casinos, I still have to question the usefulness of having three or six months in which an employee who in many cases has naver been told that his/her performance was in any way inadequate can simply be let go without explanation.

A couple of posters have stated that at the companies they worked for, a probationary employee has usually had some kind of documented warning that they needed improvement before being let go. This situation is extremely rare in Vegas. I had several supervisors tell me that I was doing a good job, and that my performance was far better than that of many of my coworkers who had made probation. There were only a couple who continually falsely reprimanded me on the game for “not repeating my bets.” Most of the suit-wearing population seemed to think I more than “met the standards” .

My termination came as a complete shock. I don’t think I really should have been so surprised, though, considering the kind of people they chose to keep.

I suppose I could write my assemblyman and ask him to propose legislation that requires some kind of documented verbal warning for probationary employees in companies that have written progressive disciplinary policies in order to prevent abuses such as hiring people then terminating them just days before they would become eligible for insurance benefits. But I doubt this would do much good. The casinos pretty much have the state legislature in their back pockets.

25

I had an experience very similar to Thea.My probationary period was six months.During that time my coworkers did everything they could to torment me and make my life in the workplace a living Hell!Through it all I persisted,and really managed to get a lot of work done.Funny thing was,when I went in for my six month performance appraisal,I really considered asking for a merit based raise.I was furious when I was told that my attitude was unacceptable,and that my probation was being extended.Despite my feelings,I remained calm,and read further that my work ethic was mediocre.Now I knew that I was the hardest working one there,and that the closest they had to my performance was a distant second.The thing was the kissasses in this particular workplace(and I’m sure most others like it)did their utmost to say bad things about me behind my back.There is an abominable practice of gossip and innuendo that is staggering in proportion.Some folks think they know what it’s like,but until you’ve seen it you can really have no idea.

Hidden in my performance appraisal were the words"Forbin has entered a shop with a lot of history…blah blah blah"This was how the supervisor justified putting my ass in a sling.It was almost like he was telling me,“I know it’s really the others who have been here who are making trouble,but I’m gonna fire you for their flaws.”

My response.I showed up at work everyday,on time,started working at the precise instant the shift began.NO FOOLIN AROUND in the morning.Fooling around was a normal deal in this place,so this was really a revolution.

After all that, I made the grade.I am permanant.I have maintained my pace(it pisses me off that anyone would insult my work ethic)Now,in spite of the fact nobody acknowledges it,I am the de facto leader of the workplace atmosphere.Everybody must do at least a minimum amount of work to keep up with me.

Probationary periods are a good idea in the ideal sense.In the real world however they are subject to great abuse.Perhaps far greater abuse than some of their proponents realize.

By the way,I work for the government.It truly is a hotbed of gossip,cliques,infighting,and other disgusting petty games.Some of us who work there(the real adults)find this atmosphere loathsome,and avoid it like the plague.Those are the ones who are truly public servants.

Also,concerning hidden medical conditions,I was given a very complete physical.Blood samples were taken and analized etc.My employer was cautious about hiring anyone with a pre existing condition.

Thea,I feel for ya!

26

Forbin-

Welcome aboard, and thanks for commisserating. As lousy as it is that these sort of things happen to other people as well, it does feel nice to know that I’m not alone in feeling the way I do about probationary periods.

On a brighter note- I got a really great compliment from my boxman today. We both just got bounced to graveyard shift. He was on days, I was on swing. I had worked with him a few times during the two-hour transition from days to swing, when I was on an early swing crew.

He told me that before I came on the shift, the graveyard pit boss asked him what he knew about me. He said he told the boss that there would never be a “jackpot” on my side of the table because I’m very good about booking my bets.

The joke is that I book my bets exactly the same way I did at my last job, where I was always being reprimanded for supposedly not booking them. And I’m making close to the same amount of money as I was at the other job, and when construction is completed on some new hotel rooms where I’m now working, I’ll probably be making more.

So, I guess the joke’s on my former employer. This high-prestige Strip casino dumped a perfectly nice craps dealer, who ended up with a job at a recently built neighborhood casino and will soon be making more money than at the previous job.

God is just, and living well is the best revenge.

27

Good for you Thea.
I just wanted to add one thing,that should probably be obvious from my earlier post.
I never had any idea,even in the remotest sense,that I was going to be fired(or that I was at risk for same)
At no time did my supervisor say anything to me about my work performance whatsoever.The few times he did say anything it was positive.When I read in Thea’s OP that the very same thing happened to her,I knew I just had to tell my story too.
I also have a little advise for anyone on probation.
1)Continually ask your supervisor “How am I doing?”
I was supposed to get reviews at 2 months and 4 months.
That never did occur.
If you ask someone and they tell you to your face that
you’re doing fine,it makes it awfully hard for them to
subsequently fire you.
2)Find a way to make upper management know of your worth
I completed some specialty jobs(that only I knew how to
do)during my extended probation
I have also photodocumented my work,and used the
computers to fill out all my paperwork(That was a
big deal where I work because it is still a “pencil
and paper” organization.I just know that upper management
took notice of my efficiency there.)
This is all to say that if upper management likes you
your chickenshit little supervisor cannot fire you just
to satisfy his own petty little agenda.

LAST WORD:Do your job!
Don’t kid yourself that I think it’s okay to be a slacker.