# Problem is, it ain't the 1%, it's the 5+% **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 21, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686 "2011-11-21T21:27:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/81 "2011-11-22T16:37:48Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I didn’t say anything about “noble”, that was you. And they buy those things from the corporations because they have no choice. Again; are they supposed to carve cell phones out of wood? The “noble” sentiment: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14460960&postcount=17](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14460960&postcount=17) ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/82 "2011-11-22T16:38:12Z")
It’s not the overclass that is the problem, it’s the moron class. And that cuts across income boundaries. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/83 "2011-11-22T16:57:14Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Again, you claimed that the model reaches equilibrium. Equilibrium \<\> “increased stratification”. The fact that any society will have some stratification is a trivial result. A model in which 100% of the rich remain rich and 100% of the poor remain poor has also reached equilibrium. Is there stratification in that society? Or are you going to hang your hat on the word “increased”? Nice use of symbols, by the way, though I’m almost afraid to ask what you think “\<\>” means. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/84 "2011-11-22T17:14:34Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > It’s not the overclass that is the problem, it’s the moron class. And that cuts across income boundaries. Now there’s your 99%! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/85 "2011-11-22T17:27:19Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > It’s not the overclass that is the problem, it’s the moron class. And that cuts across income boundaries. No, actually, the moron class is rarely a problem, because morons usually end up doing what (sometimes marginally) smarter persons they trust tell them to do. Usually those are persons of their own social class. This includes voting behavior, there have been studies. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/86 "2011-11-22T17:36:35Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > A model in which 100% of the rich remain rich and 100% of the poor remain poor has also reached equilibrium. Is there stratification in that society? Or are you going to hang your hat on the word “increased”? > > Nice use of symbols, by the way, though I’m almost afraid to ask what you think “\<\>” means. You very well know what \<\> means. And you’re moving goalposts. You did not claim stratification - that would just be claiming that water is wet. There is no society on Earth, and never has been, without stratification. You claimed “increased stratification” as a necessary result of higher probability of success for the rich. Which is demonstrably not true. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/87 "2011-11-22T17:43:21Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You very well know what \<\> means. 😕 Do you mean != ? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/88 "2011-11-22T17:45:46Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > There is no society on Earth, and never has been, without stratification. Quite true, but that covers a lot of ground, some societies are more stratified than others. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to put on the table, as a stated long-term goal, not a classless society, but just an America with a slightly flatter social pyramid, the top and bottom closer together than now. Simply because that’s a better society into which to be born. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/89 "2011-11-22T17:49:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 Do you mean != ? Some computer languages use !=. Some use \<\>. And no, I don’t think you are “😕”. Or if you are, it’s a deliberate confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/90 "2011-11-22T17:59:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It should be overturned. Individual contributions and expenditures are acts of expressive speech and should be protected by the First Amendment. If money is political speech pure and simple, then we have made the poor mute. Just because the law applies equal to all does not lead to just results, the sort of results the first amendment envisions. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > In other words, you think America should be a plutocracy; you think that a direct correlation between wealth and political power not only should be legal, but should be enshrined in the Constitution. And as a direct consequence of that you are saying that the people who _aren’t_ rich deserve no voice in the government. They should just shut up and be good little serfs. To be fair, money ultimately cannot defeata n engaged citizenry. We just haven’t had much of one in my lifetime but theoretically it could happen. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/91 "2011-11-22T18:10:23Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You very well know what \<\> means. > > And you’re moving goalposts. You did not claim stratification - that would just be claiming that water is wet. There is no society on Earth, and never has been, without stratification. You claimed “increased stratification” as a necessary result of higher probability of success for the rich. Which is demonstrably not true. So, a society in which 100% of the rich remain rich and 100% of the poor remain poor doesn’t have “increased” stratification and therefore… In the United States in the past 30 years, has stratification increased or decreased? How about income inequality? How about wealth share? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/92 "2011-11-22T18:11:46Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Some computer languages use !=. Some use \<\>. That’s meaningless, “cuz computer programs [aren’t] the arbiters of math.” ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/93 "2011-11-22T18:16:25Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > To be fair, money ultimately cannot defeata n engaged citizenry. One thing I’ve noticed from my casual reading of history is that when it’s the engaged citizenry versus the money, things get ugly. Much better to act before that point is reached. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/94 "2011-11-22T18:16:50Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > That’s meaningless, “cuz computer programs [aren’t] the arbiters of math.” Neither != nor \<\> is a mathematical symbol. The accepted mathematical “not equals” symbol is not reproducible using ASCII. How is this relevant to the subject at hand? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/95 "2011-11-22T18:18:08Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > So, a society in which 100% of the rich remain rich and 100% of the poor remain poor doesn’t have “increased” stratification and therefore… > > In the United States in the past 30 years, has stratification increased or decreased? How about income inequality? How about wealth share? You can develop this further if you want. But that’s not what the post to which I originally responded was discussing. And I disproved the point you were making in that post. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/96 "2011-11-22T18:21:00Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Neither != nor \<\> is a mathematical symbol. The accepted mathematical “not equals” symbol is not reproducible using ASCII. Can’t we just swap in =/= for ≠ at need? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/97 "2011-11-22T18:21:10Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > How is this relevant to the subject at hand? I’m just trying to learn math now, since society failed me earlier. Remind me again, is 100 ≤ 100? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/98 "2011-11-22T18:24:30Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I’m just trying to learn math now, since society failed me earlier. Remind me again, is 100 ≤ 100? > **[Doesn't Equals in Windows?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=98091)** > > Does the Windows platform lack the doesn’t-equals sign? Is this possible? I program in FileMaker, mainly via my Macintosh, and I’m constantly using Option-equals to create the equals-sign-with-a-slash through it: ? \<-- that’s it, if vBulletin... ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/99 "2011-11-22T18:27:03Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [Doesn't Equals in Windows? - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=98091) Could you point out specifically where in that thread the question “is 100 ≤ 100” is answered? ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/100 "2011-11-22T18:31:25Z")
What is this, 1952? Cabots and Lodges vacationing on the Cape after a hard year of investment banking and lawyering? Give me a break. The “overclass” is less white than it’s ever been. It’s awfully Jewish, you know. Why don’t you run with that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686.md?page=6)