# Problem is, it ain't the 1%, it's the 5+% **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 21, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686 "2011-11-21T21:27:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/121 "2011-11-23T14:29:08Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Yeah. Have fun standing in line in the snow for six hours waiting for your beet ration. You realize when “not a lot of work gets done” that means not a lot of food gets to your table, not a lot of services get filled and you don’t get that great a standard of living. _puff_ _cough_ Yeah, ain’t life funny? Good thing we can always garden! 🙂 Well, then OTOH we have America, which has its own systemic problems. From [“The American Paradox,”](http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2003/01/halstead.htm) by Ted Halstead, published in _The Atlantic Monthly,_ January/February 2003: > [@](#): > > Nothing illustrates America’s profound contradictions more starkly than a comparison with other advanced democracies: among these the United States is either the very best or the very worst performer on a wide range of social and economic criteria. We are simultaneously the leader and the laggard among our peers—almost always exceptional, almost never in the middle. > > Without question we are the richest, most powerful, and most creative nation on the planet. Our economic and military might stems from our embrace of a particularly high-octane brand of capitalism, supported by financial markets that are deeper and broader than any others, labor markets that are more flexible, and a culture of entrepreneurialism that is unparalleled. These attributes have turned America into the world’s unrivaled engine of innovation and wealth creation. We boast more patent applications than the entire European Union; almost three times as many Nobel laureates as Britain, our closest competitor; and more business start-ups per capita than almost every other advanced democracy. One in twelve Americans will start his or her own business, evincing another outstanding American trait—our great tolerance for risk. And our export of movies, television shows, music, and fast-food chains makes us, for better or worse, the dominant cultural force on the globe. > > But like the Roman god Janus, America has two faces. Despite being the richest nation on the planet, we suffer from higher rates of poverty, infant mortality, homicide, and HIV infection, and from greater economic inequality, than other advanced democracies. We have far more uninsured citizens, and a lower life expectancy. On a per capita basis the United States emits considerably more greenhouse gases and produces more solid waste. We spend more per student on K-12 education than almost all other modern democracies, yet our students perform near the bottom on international tests. We have the highest rates of teen pregnancy and among the highest proportions of single parents, and American parents have the least amount of free time to spend with their children; indeed, the average American works nine weeks more each year than the average European. Our performance on many social indicators is so poor, in fact, that an outsider looking at these numbers alone might conclude that we were a developing nation. > > How do we reconcile these two faces of America? To a remarkable degree the United States seems to have exchanged social cohesion and a broad-based middle class for economic dynamism and personal freedom. Have we abandoned what used to be referred to as the common good? > > \ > > THE TWO FACES OF AMERICA > > This list of “bests” and “worsts” is based on a variety of sources—including statistics from the United Nations, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, and a number of other groups and experts—but the basic criteria are consistent. Among advanced democracies, America had to rank in the top three for a category to be listed under “bests” and in the bottom three for a category to be listed under “worsts.” (Where applicable, all rankings were determined on a rate basis or as a percentage of population.) > > Bests-------------------------------------------------Worsts > > Gross domestic product------------------------------Poverty > Productivity---------------------------------------------Economic inequality > Business start-ups------------------------------------Carbon-dioxide emissions > Long-term unemployment---------------------------Life expectancy > Expenditure on education---------------------------Infant mortality > University graduates----------------------------------Homicide > R&D expenditure---------------------------------------Health-care coverage > High-tech exports--------------------------------------HIV infection > Movies exported---------------------------------------Teen pregnancy > Breadth of stock ownership--------------------------Personal savings > Volunteerism--------------------------------------------Voter participation > Charitable giving---------------------------------------Obesity Each approach to the social contract has its pluses and minuses, of course, but **on balance** America has made a very bad bargain for itself and should learn from the examples of other countries. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/122 "2011-11-23T14:30:13Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > He’s someone who wants to take and take from society and never give anything in return . . . Sounds like something Hank Hill might say about hippies. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/123 "2011-11-23T14:32:10Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Exactly. And furthermore, assuming I bust my ass and make $150,000 a year, I don’t see why the government has to take my money and “redistribute” it to some person who is busy whining about how some nebulous 1% screws them? > > It’s ultimately my money, that I worked for and earned . . . You are mistaken – **always** mistaken – in thinking you ever earned a dime without the government’s help. It might seem that way because the government’s most important contributions are practically invisible and mainly done to provide a safe and stable work/business/social evironment that seems “normal” and “natural” to you – but, no, it don’t just happen; and it would happen no more, if we all stopped paying taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/124 "2011-11-23T14:39:02Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Cite? You don’t know how much he gave society to earn that money in the first place, and you’re extrapolating as fast as you can about what he means by _“it should be my choice and only my choice to give it to some charity or not.”_ “If I want to be a right bastard and hang on to every penny, then that’s none of the government’s business” sounds like standard libertarian sociopathy to me. And I don’t believe that someone who talks like that is going to be giving _anything_ to charity. > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I don’t know that he feels that way. I suppose that anyone in general – and **bump** in particular – could, theoretically, be hiding such traits; I merely know there’s nothing theoretical about the folks you postulate, who go in for a “confiscates everything you own” philosophy. With them, I don’t need to suppose. No; you are just taking a group I made up as an example of why being amoral is a bad thing for society, and acting like one brand of amorality is bad, while the other is good. In this country “I’ve got mine, let the world burn” is a politically acceptable form of amorality, while “Let’s have the government steal all your stuff” is not; but both are just as amoral and destructive. What you are doing is trying to divert the conversation away from that, using an imaginary group as your bogeyman so you don’t have to try to defend the “I’ve got mine” position. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/125 "2011-11-23T14:41:25Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > You are mistaken – **always** mistaken – in thinking you ever earned a dime without the government’s help. But did he, with the government’s help, earn those dimes by being a productive member of society? Did he, while guarded by cops, build me a house? Did he, thanks to a student loan, earn the medical degree that let him save my life? Did he, upon noting that government-backed dollars were treated as legal tender, become a fisherman who could put food on my table in exchange for green pieces of paper? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/126 "2011-11-23T14:49:01Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > But did he, with the government’s help, earn those dimes by being a productive member of society? Careful how you open the door for government to decide (since there’s no one else, not even the marketplace, who can decide so’s it matters) who is a “productive member of society” or not. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/127 "2011-11-23T14:51:23Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > “If I want to be a right bastard and hang on to every penny, then that’s none of the government’s business” sounds like standard libertarian sociopathy to me. And I don’t believe that someone who talks like that is going to be giving _anything_ to charity. He may or may not. With guys you say have a “confiscates everything you own” mentality, we’re beyond “may or may not”. > [@](#): > > No; you are just taking a group I made up as an example of why being amoral is a bad thing for society, and acting like one brand of amorality is bad, while the other is good. The amorality that leads people to confiscate my stuff is bad, in that it hurts me. The amorality that doesn’t confiscate my stuff (a) is, at worst, not hurting me; and (b) for all I know includes charity above and beyond that baseline. They’re already on the wrong side; he’s already on the right side, with an open question as to how much _ **further** _ he chooses to go. > [@](#): > > What you are doing is trying to divert the conversation away from that, using an imaginary group as your bogeyman so you don’t have to try to defend the “I’ve got mine” position. You say that group is _ **my** _ bogeyman? You invented them! If you’d attacked the “I’ve got mine” position without bringing them up, my response may well have been different. Instead, you said it would be “just as OK for those people you dislike to get together and impose a government that confiscates everything you own”; I can but disagree with the points you make. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/128 "2011-11-23T14:53:03Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Careful how you open the door for government to decide (since there’s no one else, not even the marketplace, who can decide so’s it matters) who is a “productive member of society” or not. Why “not even the marketplace,” exactly? Surely we have _ **some** _ say? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/129 "2011-11-23T14:58:56Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > That happens a lot too, there’s no hard boundaries between one American class and the next, but the general lines are there. And by far most marriages are intraclass. More likely to be intraclass, I should think, than intraregional, especially in the middle and upper classes, who are very mobile geographically, and often marry college or grad-school sweethearts from other states. Ours is a social pyramid of floating layers. A pousse-cafe, if you will. The problem with your thesis is: (a) highly subjective and idiosyncretic class definitions based on stuff like what people name their cats and whether the female partner works out of the home or not (the notion that a family whose male partner is a lawyer earning $400,000 a year and whose female partner stays at home with the kids is “middle class only” rather than “upper middle class” strikes me as absurd), combined with: (b) the notion that there exists strong barriers to moving from class to class. The combination appears to lead to the conclusion that the son of a lawyer earning $400,000 a year whose mom stayed at home would be unlikely to marry the daughter of a lawyer who earned $400,000 a year whose mom worked out of the home. Very counter-intuitive. The reason for this absurdity is, of course, that the “classes” are nothing like rigidly defined, let alone rigidly exclusive. The idea of some sort of unified overclass based on some very subjective notions of what the relevant classes _are_ is ‘not disprovable’, hence in my view unlikely - and a poor basis for some sort of social movement. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/130 "2011-11-23T15:05:24Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Why “not even the marketplace,” exactly? Surely we have _ **some** _ say? The marketplace tells you only who has the capacity to earn – well, **acquire** – money. Such a person is not necessarily a “productive member of society” in any other sense, the characterization applies to mafiosi. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/131 "2011-11-23T15:13:57Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The idea of some sort of unified overclass based on some very subjective notions of what the relevant classes _are_ is ‘not disprovable’, hence in my view unlikely - and a poor basis for some sort of social movement. :dubious: Whaddaya want, a social movement based on social **science?!** Nothing would ever get done waiting on that. And if you ever think you’ve **got** a social science with definite political implications, sure you’re not a Marxist? You don’t need any social scientist to tell you what’s obvious if you live in America: (1) In America as elsewhere, hierarchically-ordered social classes exist; maybe that’s just human social nature and we have to put up with it and a classless society is impossible, maybe not. (2) In America as elsewhere, classes have their class interests, sometimes identical with other classes’ interests, sometimes in conflict. (3) The upper classes in any society can generally serve their interests better than other classes can, sometimes overwhelmingly so. (4) We **don’t** have to put up with (3). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/132 "2011-11-23T15:15:21Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The marketplace tells you only who has the capacity to earn – well, **acquire** – money. Such a person is not necessarily a “productive member of society” in any other sense, the characterization applies to mafiosi. Well, maybe your reference to “mafiosi” brings it back around to a point where I better understand what you meant about the government deciding: I’m not allowed to declare _“murder for hire”_ or _“protection racket”_ on my taxes, I’m not allowed to “acquire” money by simply wearing a black mask and a striped shirt while climbing in and out of houses with a bag with marked $; I _ **am,** _ however, allowed to earn money by opening an ice-cream parlor or repairing your car or curing your blindness. Is that about right? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/133 "2011-11-23T15:15:50Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Everyone has to work at something otherwise nothing would ever get done. The question is if the system is set up so that the people working get to enjoy most of the fruits of their labor, or is it being systematically syphoned off so that a few at the top can buy summer homes in the Hamptons. To my mind the real problem is not a system deliberately established so that the parasitic few conspire to rob the hard-working many of their sweat-earned labour, but rather the unconcious accretion of issues that, unplanned by anyone, act so as to reduce social mobility and result in a system that increasingly becomes ‘winner take all’. Look at it this way: if the world were a perfect meritocracy, and of course assuming that objective superiority can be measured, everyone would have the best lawyer, the best doctor, listen to the best music, have the best accountant, etc. What then happens to the second-best? The tenth-best? [If objective superiority cannot be measured, substitute “most popular” for “best”; or some combination of the two]. Our system, in its ideal form, praises meritocracy as an ideal. The “best”, in common measure, _should_ be rewarded for his or her success. Parasitism of the sort you mention is rightly condemned as a failure of the system. While there is no doubt whatsoever that there is a certain amount of parasitism about, I think by far the more intractble problem is where the system is in fact working according to the ideal. The problem is this: if we only reward “the best” or “the most popular”, there are going to be a lot of people who are not “the best” but who are nevertheless "pretty damn good’ who go without. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/134 "2011-11-23T15:17:33Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Well, maybe your reference to “mafiosi” brings it back around to a point where I better understand what you meant about the government deciding: I’m not allowed to declare _“murder for hire”_ or _“protection racket”_ on my taxes, I’m not allowed to “acquire” money by simply wearing a black mask and a striped shirt while climbing in and out of houses with a bag with marked $; I _ **am,** _ however, allowed to earn money by opening an ice-cream parlor or repairing your car or curing your blindness. Is that about right? Yes, but, still, is a person who lawfully offers what goods, services or labor others will lawfully buy necessarily, therefore, a productive member of society? What if you work for the tobacco industry? A case could be make that drawing welfare would be more civically responsible. Are gangsta rap artists productive members of society? I think so, but I know many would disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/135 "2011-11-23T15:22:20Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :dubious: Whaddaya want, a social movement based on social **science?!** Nothing would ever get done waiting on that. And if you ever think you’ve **got** a social science with definite political implications, sure you’re not a Marxist? > > You don’t need any social scientist to tell you what’s obvious if you live in America: > > (1) In America as elsewhere, hierarchically-ordered social classes exist; maybe that’s just human social nature and we have to put up with it and a classless society is impossible, maybe not. > > (2) In America as elsewhere, classes have their class interests, sometimes identical with other classes’ interests, sometimes in conflict. > > (3) The upper classes in any society can generally serve their interests better than other classes can, sometimes overwhelmingly so. > > (4) We **don’t** have to put up with (3). Except that none of this is by any means “obvious”. Look at the problem of making any class definition that can pass the laugh test. How can “class interests” be defined let alone “class conciousness” develop when many if not most have no idea what class they are in? Or where the classes themselves are fuzzy and ill-defined? If you want proof of this difficulty, look no further than the Dope. Examine any thread attempting to define who is or is not “wealthy”. No consensus whatsoever emerges. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/136 "2011-11-23T15:24:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Yes, but, still, is a person who lawfully offers what goods, services or labor others will lawfully buy necessarily, therefore, a productive member of society? What if you work for the tobacco industry? A case could be make that drawing welfare would be more civically responsible. Again, if that’s what you mean buy _“for government to decide”_ – in the sense that we feel certain _“goods, services, or labor others will lawfully buy”_ should be outlawed along with arson, murder, and jaywalking – then, yeah, I think I’m on board with that. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/137 "2011-11-23T22:04:34Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Our system, in its ideal form, praises meritocracy as an ideal. The “best”, in common measure, _should_ be rewarded for his or her success. Parasitism of the sort you mention is rightly condemned as a failure of the system. While there is no doubt whatsoever that there is a certain amount of parasitism about, I think by far the more intractble problem is where the system is in fact working according to the ideal. The problem is this: if we only reward “the best” or “the most popular”, there are going to be a lot of people who are not “the best” but who are nevertheless "pretty damn good’ who go without. Your friends will call you a New Dealer, and your enemies will say you want a Harrison Bergeron world. But you’re right, of course. We need something better than “winner take all” if we really want to maintain, let alone increase, general quality of life. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/138 "2011-11-23T23:18:36Z")
All this talk about classes and the 1% or 5% conveniently overlooks some critical factors. The “underclass”, or whatever you want to call them, are much different now than they were in the income equality heyday of the 1950s. They have most of their kids out of wedlock, they’re less literate and worse educated (this may be getting better, but it’s a battle between more rigorous public schools and mass immigration), and a much higher fraction of them have been in jail. These are all factors that strongly affect economic prospects. Which came first, the low-class behavior, or the lower class? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/139 "2011-11-24T00:25:29Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > All this talk about classes and the 1% or 5% conveniently overlooks some critical factors. > > The “underclass”, or whatever you want to call them, are much different now than they were in the income equality heyday of the 1950s. They have most of their kids out of wedlock, they’re less literate and worse educated (this may be getting better, but it’s a battle between more rigorous public schools and mass immigration), and a much higher fraction of them have been in jail. These are all factors that strongly affect economic prospects. > > Which came first, the low-class behavior, or the lower class? The lower class came first – that is, lower-class Americans today are, mostly, people whose parents or grandparents were lower-class in the 1950s. (Plus some once-middle-class families that have slipped down the ladder, plus immigrants still getting a grip on the bottom rung.) ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686/140 "2011-11-24T00:30:15Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > To my mind the real problem is not a system deliberately established so that the parasitic few conspire to rob the hard-working many of their sweat-earned labour, but rather the unconcious accretion of issues that, unplanned by anyone, act so as to reduce social mobility and result in a system that increasingly becomes ‘winner take all’. > > Look at it this way: if the world were a perfect meritocracy, and of course assuming that objective superiority can be measured, everyone would have the best lawyer, the best doctor, listen to the best music, have the best accountant, etc. What then happens to the second-best? The tenth-best? A free market allows people to pursue the best service provider FOR THEIR NEEDS. Some combination of price, talent, height or whatever is right for them. But I believe you are somewhat correct. Education has become a major class barrier. It doesn’t really matter what you do, so long as you go to a top (and expensive to the tune of $150,000+) school. Not even counting law, business or medical school. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-is-it-aint-the-1-its-the-5/603686.md?page=8)