# Problem with US Politics = Politicians? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 28, 2006, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-with-us-politics-politicians/362550 "2006-06-28T21:48:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2006, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-with-us-politics-politicians/362550/1 "2006-06-28T21:48:08Z")
After reading this quote: > [@](#): > > The scariest part is that protecting free speech rights is not seen as a winning issue for many pols. in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=377555) , I got to wondering just how much of today’s (and in the past) problems with the way the country’s run are due to the nature of being a politician instead of particular political parties and their ideologies? I mean, if they weren’t so determined to get re-elected, they might actually do the right things on occasion- being a congressman or senator is not completely about being absolutely representative of your constituency. Is the fundamental problem with US politics caused by the very nature of being a politician? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2006, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-with-us-politics-politicians/362550/2 "2006-06-28T23:05:34Z")
It’s a fundamental design problem (“It’s not a bug, it’s a feature!”) of representative democracy. Our leaders are people who are good at getting elected; the qualities essential to that are not necessarily the same as the qualities that make a good leader or governor or policy-former. Can’t see anything can be done about that, unless we want to try something other than representative democracy. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-with-us-politics-politicians/362550/3 "2006-06-29T00:44:40Z")
I was actually wondering about fairly severe term limits as a way to mitigate some of the problems- if every second-term politician is a lame duck, then he’s not going to be able to make a career out of it (which IMHO, is a good thing), and nor is he likely to do things strictly to get re-elected. It just strikes me that of all the people I’ve known, only the assholes and/or tools seem to have any interest in becoming involved in politics, with the more assholic and toolish as the only ones expressing interest in politics as a career. Usually, the people I’d want running things want nothing to do with it, because the people who get involved in politics are so false and sleazy. I can’t help but wonder if there is a solution that would incentivize the right people to become involved, and dissuade the assholes from becoming involved. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-with-us-politics-politicians/362550/4 "2006-06-29T00:51:13Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I was actually wondering about fairly severe term limits as a way to mitigate some of the problems- if every second-term politician is a lame duck, then he’s not going to be able to make a career out of it (which IMHO, is a good thing), and nor is he likely to do things strictly to get re-elected. We **need** a specialized occupational category of career politicians. Every modern, industrialized democracy does. Government is a very complicated business, and like any such, should be left primarily to experienced specialists. We could [url=http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=310125]choose Congress by a random lottery of all registered voters – but if we did that we wouldn’t have a Congress, we would have a focus group; it would be incompetent to do anything but vote up-or-down on the executive’s proposals. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-with-us-politics-politicians/362550/5 "2006-06-29T00:57:20Z")
[Sorry, flubbed link.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=310125) ---
**Author:** ![Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/regallag_the_axe/32/445_2.png) [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Regallag_The_Axe)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-with-us-politics-politicians/362550/6 "2006-06-29T01:42:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > We could choose Congress by a random lottery of all registered voters-- but if we did that we wouldn’t have a Congress, we would have a focus group; it would be incompetent to do anything but vote up-or-down on the executive’s proposals. That isn’t the same thing as term limits, though. Count me as one of them crazies who think that term limits would be a good thing. If congressmen and senators don’t have to worry about getting re-elected (A.K.A. doing what makes specifically their constituents happy) they could do what is best for the nation as a whole.\* At the very least they’ll know that they have to live with whatever laws they pass. \*Meaning, of course, they’ll do what _they think_ is best for the nation as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![DonutSprinkle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@DonutSprinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonutSprinkle)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-with-us-politics-politicians/362550/7 "2006-06-29T01:45:26Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > We **need** a specialized occupational category of career politicians. Don’t we, in practical terms, have that now? After all, most politicians have been at it for years. Turnover is very low in Congress. The frightening thing is, that may be all for the best. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-with-us-politics-politicians/362550/8 "2006-06-29T01:50:24Z")
I don’t object to term limits so long as they’re not **lifetime** limits. E.g., you can serve two terms in Congress and then you have to sit out the next term – but you can always run again later. That provides for turnover and eliminates the grossly unfair electoral advantage of incumbency, but we still have career politicians. During your time-out period you can always serve in your state legislature or something. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-with-us-politics-politicians/362550/9 "2006-06-29T02:22:05Z")
Why do people always think that if the need to get reelected was gone, all that would be left would be good intentions? Holding political office provides a great many opportunites for corruption and graft. Without the motive to get re-elected, you don’t even need to be _discrete_ about it any more. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-with-us-politics-politicians/362550/10 "2006-06-29T02:25:48Z")
> [@Manda JO](#): > > Why do people always think that if the need to get reelected was gone, all that would be left would be good intentions? > > Holding political office provides a great many opportunites for corruption and graft. Without the motive to get re-elected, you don’t even need to be _discrete_ about it any more. True. But at least the most important form of corruption in modern politics – the entirely legal solicitation of campaign contributions for the next election – would be eliminated. Of course, adopting the French system\* would achieve the same result. \*In France, candidates are not allowed to buy advertising time. All TV stations are required by law, as a public service, to provide each candidate in a given election with equal air-time, for free. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-with-us-politics-politicians/362550/11 "2006-06-29T02:31:35Z")
Regarding campaign-finance reform, see the following threads: > **[Campaign Reform](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=353988)** > > Since we are reforming both the Democrats and Republicans, why not reform the electoral campaigning process? What would you do to change the media circus it has become? I’ve got a suggestion. Remove certain parts of the ability of a corporation to... > **[Let's debate the merits (not the constitutionality) of campaign finance reform](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=293668)** > > Whenever we debate campaign finance reform in this forum, it seems we always spend most of our time debating whether it’s forbidden by the First Amendment. For purposes of this thread, let’s ignore that and focus on the more basic question of... > **[why not ban political commercial on TV](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=276143)** > > and perhaps we will not have all these dirt-campaigns every election years in USA. the latest I’ve heard is that Laura Bush was a dope dealer in College and that she “killed” her ex-boyfriend in a car accident.) I have watch CNN for years but I... > **[How well do campaign-financing systems work in non-U.S. countries?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=275891)** > > Last year I posted this GQ thread – “How does campaign financing work in countries other than the U.S.?” – http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=223440. Some Dopers provided valuable information on how campaigns are financed in... > **[Campaign contributions are free speech?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=272192)** > > It seems to be a recurring theme in any campaign finance discussion, and I have yet to see any justification for it, but I just don’t see how limiting campaign contributions can be seen as going against the first amendment. This applies equally to... > **[Campaign Finance Reform is a flop.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=271914)** > > When the McCain-Feingold law was being debated, many decried it. Some on the basis of free speech, but just as many because it’s stated goal of “getting the money out of politics” was naive to the point of stupidity. The river of money, we argued,... ---
**Author:** ![Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/regallag_the_axe/32/445_2.png) [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Regallag_The_Axe)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-with-us-politics-politicians/362550/12 "2006-06-29T02:33:40Z")
That’s an interesting idea **BG** , and one that I haven’t heard or though of yet. The one thing about politics that really bugs me is the huge incumbancy rate of the US congress. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-with-us-politics-politicians/362550/13 "2006-06-29T02:36:08Z")
> [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](#): > > That’s an interesting idea **BG** , and one that I haven’t heard or though of yet. Which one? Non-lifetime term limits, campaign finance reform, or structural political reforms to promote a multiparty system? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-with-us-politics-politicians/362550/14 "2006-06-29T02:40:35Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Which one? Non-lifetime term limits, campaign finance reform, or structural political reforms to promote a multiparty system? None of which, of course, would really resolve the fundamental problem I mentioned in post #2; but they would help immensely. ---
**Author:** ![Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/regallag_the_axe/32/445_2.png) [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Regallag_The_Axe)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-with-us-politics-politicians/362550/15 "2006-06-29T02:43:24Z")
The major problem with adopting the ‘French system’, is the fact that there are often many candidates running from many parties, but the only ones with any real chance of getting elected are the democrats and republicans.\* How would that be dealt with? Only give TV ad space to the dems’ & 'pubs? \*Why this is and if it ought to be that way are the matter for another debate, of course. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-with-us-politics-politicians/362550/16 "2006-06-29T02:45:08Z")
> [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](#): > > The major problem with adopting the ‘French system’, is the fact that there are often many candidates running from many parties, but the only ones with any real chance of getting elected are the democrats and republicans.\* How would that be dealt with? Only give TV ad space to the dems’ & 'pubs? No. Give equal time to **every** candidate who qualifies for the general-election ballot. (Which, in most cases, will be only the Republicrats because our ballot-access laws are extremely unfair, but that’s another discussion.) ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-with-us-politics-politicians/362550/17 "2006-06-29T02:47:31Z")
The problem isn’t with the pols, it’s with the people. As long as the voters don’t demand a good government, they aren’t going to get one. What incentive, for example, does Congress have to balance a budget when all they hear is “cut my taxes” in one ear and “bring my pork” in the other? The system is producing politicians whose one skill is getting votes rather than providing inspired leadership. As long as votes can be cherry-picked by easy sound bites on things like abortion, gun control, and flag burning, the more substantive issues will never be addressed. The politicians are merely giving the public the things that win their votes. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-with-us-politics-politicians/362550/18 "2006-06-29T03:05:24Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > The problem isn’t with the pols, it’s with the people. Going by memory from one of George Carlin’s routines: > [@George Carlin](#): > > Everybody says the politicians suck. Well, who are these politicians?! They’re not from another planet. They didn’t drop in from some alternate dimension. They’re Americans. They were raised by American parents, they grew up in American neighborhoods, they were educated in American schools, and they were elected by American voters. **This is the best we could do, folks!** This is the best we could do! [thunderous laughter and applause] So maybe it’s not the politicians who suck. Maybe it’s something else. Like . . . the public! Yeah! The public sucks! ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-with-us-politics-politicians/362550/19 "2006-06-29T03:53:39Z")
> [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](#): > > If congressmen and senators don’t have to worry about getting re-elected (A.K.A. doing what makes specifically their constituents happy) they could do what is best for the nation as a whole. Or… They could sell their votes on the theory that they’d better get their piece of the pie while they can. Besides, no need to worry about answering for a vote that blatantly serves a special interest. You won’t have to face reelection! Unintended consequences abound. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-with-us-politics-politicians/362550/20 "2006-06-29T04:04:32Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > Or… > > They could sell their votes on the theory that they’d better get their piece of the pie while they can. ’ But that, at least, would be **il** legal. (See post #10.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problem-with-us-politics-politicians/362550.md?page=2)