# Problematic Moderation: Rico and Curtis LeMay **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [January 1, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323 "2010-01-01T19:50:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Library\_Boy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cab0a1/32.png) [@Library\_Boy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Library_Boy)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/41 "2010-01-02T02:02:29Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#): > > Some visit from other boards, even. > > And they are entirely welcome to take Curtis with them. Since they like him so much he can surely entertain them elsewhere. You have been here long enough to know better than to bring off-board drama here. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/42 "2010-01-02T02:29:00Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > Part of the problem is that the admission of vandalizing another website is a stupid thing to use as the “last straw” kind of thing. Is it? Willfully vandalizing Wikipedia runs directly counter to the ideal of fighting ignorance. It may not be illegal, but it certainly isn’t right. The SDMB can’t discipline him or challenge his behavior on Wikipedia, but they can sure make it perfectly clear what kind of behavior isn’t tolerated here. Very rightly done, I thought. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/43 "2010-01-02T02:31:07Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > There is a LOUD jerk population here, but I wouldn’t say that they are prominent. They are quite prolific, and noticeable, but I’d say that about 99.95% of the posters here have caused no problems for the moderating staff. Of those that do cause problems, usually they get ONE Note or Warning, and then they don’t repeat that behavior. It’s only a tiny minority of a minority that get several Notes and Warnings, and the repeat offenders usually understand exactly what they’re doing wrong, they just don’t care. Prominent: adj. 1. Projecting outward or upward from a line or surface; protuberant. 2. Immediately noticeable; conspicuous. See synonyms at noticeable. 3. Widely known; eminent. Aside from quibbling over the definition of prominent, my point is there is a noticeable (which is actually the word I originally used before replacing it with “prominent” - heh) jerk presence around these parts, and we seem to be okay with it. We’re all aware of the Resident Douches, and they’re just part of life on the SDMB. Why is **Curtis Le May** different? Is it a) because he’s more irritating (subjective, obviously, which is half of the point), b) because he starts more (irritating) threads? c) because they’ve been around for a while, so you know, it’s cool, or d) due to the ignored warnings? If d), I would like to ask, “Why the warnings?” Then see a), b) and c). Not to keep repeating myself (even though I’m about to repeat myself right now), but there but there are other “jerks” on this board, and they are accepted, which is fine by me. It would be silly to go around banning everyone who is kind of a dick. Surely the wikipedia dust-up wasn’t great enough of an offense for moderation to declare that enough is officially enough. That thread seems quite silly, but harmless. Here’s what slays me about this all: The Resident Douches (hereinafter referred to as RD) to whom I refer are often jerks toward other people. They threadshit, they’re unnecessarily snarky, they routinely walk the personal insult tightrope in non-Pit forums, and are generally unpleasant. We all read posts by the RD and say to ourselves, “They’re at it again.” Curtis is almost never a jerk toward other posters on this board. The justifications I see for why he may potentially have his posting privileges revoked is a string of silly threads that have been deemed pointless or otherwise annoying. Big fucking deal. The RD are jackasses, frequently to other posters, in seemingly every thread they post in. While they may refrain from calling people “cunts,” and usually stay literally within the rules, they’re jerks and everyone knows it. This is not a tirade against the RD, for the record, and I’ll point out for shits and giggles that I find several of them to be fairly entertaining. It’s a tirade (I didn’t mean this to become a tirade, but it seems to have become one) against the, “God, he’s annoying us. Let’s ban him!” moderation approach that seems to be in affect. Basically, the rationale I’m getting for why Curtis is under review is “He’s annoying as shit.” Is that a bannable offense now? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/44 "2010-01-02T02:33:46Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I don’t see vandalizing Wikipedia as particularly jerky. Wikipedia vandalization is pretty much inherent in their website design, and it’s pretty foolish to rely on the website for accurate information. I disagree. When reading Wikipedia articles on subjects which I know something about, I find the accuracy level to be reasonably high. Of course I wouldn’t cite it, but the references at the end of articles often provide a good starting point to find citable documentation. Every so often I do find something obviously wrong, but that’s rare. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/45 "2010-01-02T02:40:18Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > Is it? Willfully vandalizing Wikipedia runs directly counter to the ideal of fighting ignorance. It may not be illegal, but it certainly isn’t right. The SDMB can’t discipline him or challenge his behavior on Wikipedia, but they can sure make it perfectly clear what kind of behavior isn’t tolerated here. Very rightly done, I thought. Aaaaand the “fighting ignorance” card is flipped onto the table. If you really think this place is about fighting ignorance then I have some lovely land in the Everglades I’d like to tell you about. Thank you for the lulz, my night here is complete. Continue on… ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/46 "2010-01-02T03:04:17Z")
> [@Library\_Boy](#): > > You have been here long enough to know better than to bring off-board drama here. Oh lets fucking face it. Anyone who reads ATMB enough knows that there are some people who have moved their posting to other boards, and who only now post here if it involves bitching ABOUT here. Then they jump back to the GB pit to tell others about it. Was it Lynn or Tuba who stated that **Seven** was only here to “_snipe or annoy_”? I thought that was a cheap shot at the time, its funny that it turned out to be pretty fucking prophetic. They will always claim they are speaking up because they want the board to be better than it is, but thats dishonest. They are just bitching, and being fucking pedants about fucking Curtis LeMay finally getting sanctioned is as good an illustration of this as anybody could possibly ever find. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/47 "2010-01-02T03:12:30Z")
Hrm, it seems to me that it’s more a self-fulfilling prophecy. If someone tries and tries to make things better, and sees the same sorts of behaviors, like **TubaDiva** being snotty and mean or seeing people who contribute nothing more than one-liners, me-toos, and groupthink get feted while intelligent yet controversial posters get banned, I can see that they might give up and go elsewhere. Of course, it’s also frustrating to have mods say something and then lock a thread because “discussion over”. Especially since this is the only place we are allowed to discuss moderator decisions. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/48 "2010-01-02T03:40:50Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > They will always claim they are speaking up because they want the board to be better than it is, but thats dishonest. They are just bitching, and being fucking pedants about fucking Curtis LeMay finally getting sanctioned is as good an illustration of this as anybody could possibly ever find. Well, not sure about people who only come here to snipe, but there certainly is a group of people who fit neatly into what you describe. And Tubadiva, FFS, that comment did NOT help. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/49 "2010-01-02T04:17:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Of course, it’s also frustrating to have mods say something and then lock a thread because “discussion over”. Especially since this is the only place we are allowed to discuss moderator decisions. **Tuba Diva** seems to be the only one whose closing posts are still so bitter and aggressive almost without exception. Some of the people that I know and trust have a great sense of compassion for her because they know how devoted she has been to the Straight Dope and how much time she has put in on it. It’s frustrating all way around. **Captain Amazing** : > [@](#): > > I don’t see vandalizing Wikipedia as particularly jerky. What happens when you vandalize a living person’s biography? That happened to someone I know. ---
**Author:** ![HongKongFooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c4cdca/32.png) [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/50 "2010-01-02T04:22:48Z")
Personally, I don’t give a rat’s ass about Curtis LeMay. I found him annoying and I found his last couple of polls stupid. I don’t care that he was suspended and I wouldn’t care if he hadn’t been suspended. I do however care that posting at another board is somehow grounds for suspicion. Ooh, stay away from those kids. They post at the ‘other’ place. It’s silly. There are plenty of posters who visit each site daily and are quite comfortable with it. There is of course some discussion of this board because this is where everyone came from. Aside from that I think you would find near unanimous consent from all the ‘malcontents’ that there are some very good moderators here. You can think what you want **bucketybuck** but I like both boards (and several others). This board had a lot more vitality and diversity when I started lurking here way back. It has changed in the past year or two and not for the better. Why keep quiet about it? If there’s one thing I’m sure of about the admins here it’s that they really want this place to be successful. Listening to criticism, good or bad, isn’t going to hurt them and could lead to positive change. I hope it does. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/51 "2010-01-02T04:30:56Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > **Captain Amazing** : > What happens when you vandalize a living person’s biography? That happened to someone I know. I have to wonder about people who think that vandalizing a resource that so many people use isn’t “jerky”. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/52 "2010-01-02T04:51:26Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > I have to wonder about people who think that vandalizing a resource that so many people use isn’t “jerky”. What you do on another board really shouldn’t be the business of the moderators on this message board. If somebody’s acting like a jerk here, ban them. If they do something on another board, that’s the job of the other board to police it. And you can’t vandalize something that’s open to anyone to edit. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/53 "2010-01-02T04:54:47Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > And you can’t vandalize something that’s open to anyone to edit. Sure you can. You can spray paint grafitti on a public building, just because it’s there. You can edit wikipedia just because it’s there and you’re a dickwad in search of a wall to spray paint. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/54 "2010-01-02T04:58:11Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > And you can’t vandalize something that’s open to anyone to edit. That’s ridiculous. Just because someone CAN edit something doesn’t mean what they’re changing isn’t vandalism (or whatever word is more appropriate). ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/55 "2010-01-02T05:08:31Z")
A data point, for the purpose of perspective: When I saw **Curtis** ’s post admitting to being a Wikipedia vandal, my first inclination was to invite him to post some of the work he was proudest of. My first _action_, on the other hand, was to look for the “email a mod” button, so I could ask if this would be kosher (I considered that it probably would be overkill to simply report the post). I found this thread first, so that’s one email that isn’t going to be sent. No matter. Whenever I do ask the mods’ opinion on a proposed course of action, they tend to respond promptly courteously, and clearly. My point is that **Curtis** had already been notified that his somewhat idiosyncratic poll-posting style had the staff looking askance at him wrt his value to the SDMB community. Yet he still couldn’t be bothered to ask to have his poll “vetted” before posting it. If something like this teaches him to do so, ISTM that he, and the SDMB will have benefitted. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/56 "2010-01-02T05:15:56Z")
By the way, where _is_ the “email a mod” button? ---
**Author:** ![bbs2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e495f1/32.png) [@bbs2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbs2k)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/57 "2010-01-02T05:46:01Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > By the way, where _is_ the “email a mod” button? At the bottom of the SDMB front page there is a link called [View Forum Leaders](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showgroups.php). ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/58 "2010-01-02T08:01:32Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > What, exactly, do you think should be under review? > > The moderators/Admins suspended poor Curtis a mere _eighteen_ hours after we starting an email thread about his latest. Not exactly a rush to judgement. No one stormed the jail, took him out to a tree and hanged him. At least nine mods/admins responded in the emails with an opinion. It was nine to nothing. Even the SCOTUS doesn’t often come back with a 9/0 decision. Would you suggest term limits for the SCOTUS? Sorry, off track… Well, I guess that depends on how comprehensive the moderator discussion was. Candidly, I’d assume the discussion was substantially something like “Was he admonished a few times in the past? Yes. OK, suspend him them. Straw, camel’s back [to coin a phrase].” But that’s not a particularly searching review. As I said above, there were a few mod notes and thread lockings in the past that I thought were a touch over the top, but since the punishment was light, I wasn’t going to engage in the spectacle of making a federal case out of a slap on the wrist. Had I known that those very slaps would one day be grist for the banhammer, I might have been more vocal then. And then fewer straws may have fallen across the camel’s back. And then we might not be here today. As to unanimity, the ancient Sanhedrin had a rule that no man could be sentenced to death on a unanimous guilty verdict—it meant that the accused had no advocate for him in that tribunal. Let me ask you, did any of the mods try to see this from **Curtis** ’s perspective? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/59 "2010-01-02T08:14:49Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > As to unanimity, the ancient Sanhedrin had a rule that no man could be sentenced to death on a unanimous guilty verdict—it meant that the accused had no advocate for him in that tribunal. Let me ask you, did any of the mods try to see this from **Curtis** ’s perspective? Oh please. The guy brought it on himself. Just going from memory, on this board he’s admitted: 1. Trolling other boards. 2. Making multiple socks on other boards. 3. Intentionally vandalizing other boards. Add that to his litany of warnings, intentionally provocative threads, and ill considered polls, and there’s really not much to be said in his defense. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/60 "2010-01-02T08:33:43Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Oh please. The guy brought it on himself. Just going from memory, on this board he’s admitted: > > 1. Trolling other boards. > 2. Making multiple socks on other boards. > 3. Intentionally vandalizing other boards. That completely irrelevant; none of these violate our rules. Nor is there any indication he is doing or plans to do any of these things on the SDMB. > [@](#): > > Add that to his litany of warnings, intentionally provocative threads, and ill considered polls, and there’s really not much to be said in his defense. Goodness gracious! Intentionally provocative! Socrates himself, the gadfly of Athens, would be ostracized on this board that laughably conceives its mission to be “fighting ignorance.” That is, if he could tolerate the smug hivemind, which I rather doubt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323.md?page=4)