# Problematic Moderation: Rico and Curtis LeMay **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [January 1, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323 "2010-01-01T19:50:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Pray\_for\_peace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pray\_for\_peace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pray_for_peace)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/101 "2010-01-02T19:09:57Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > \ > > My whole argument is that, if someone has a mental disorder like Aspergers, your normal rules about intent go out the window. Just because a neurotypical person doing X would most likely have malicious intent, doesn’t mean an Aspie would. > > \ I basically agree with this, and I think that labels like “jackass” are not appropriate for a poster who purports to have a mental illness that can cause a deficit of judgment or self control. That said, _any_ poster who does not follow the forum rules (for whatever reason) should be subject to suspension or banning in accordance with those rules. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/102 "2010-01-02T19:14:12Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Asperger’s is _not_ a defense. Not for repeated behavior. Aspies do not lack control of their actions. They may misstep socially, but the aware ones work to correct that upon being informed they’ve misstepped. If they’ve been diagnosed, they _know_ their brains aren’t wired up the same as everyone else’s, and most will work harder to overcome their handicap in social situations. Even then, they’re pretty high-functioning; it’s not like they’re wholly alien. Autistics are more alien, but even they can understand when they’re making mistakes and work to correct them. The ones who absolutely can’t have people to help them and frankly shouldn’t be left to their own devices, such as posting randomly on a website. > > There is absolutely no way that Asperger’s is an excuse for ignoring multiple warnings and corrections. That comes from being a clueless idiot (or a clued shit-stirrer). I alleged that he wasn’t ignoring but not understanding. I’m not as certain of that anymore. You’re knowledge of Aspies is at odds with the experience I’ve had with them. They get made fun of all the time for their actions, but, even when you tell them what they are doing wrong, they have trouble understanding and correcting. It takes years of spelling things out in social skills classes for them to grasp it. Full disclosure if I may: I was once diagnosed with Aspergers. Since I have social phobia, I freaked out, thinking I could never have friends. I wound up learning a lot about it. Later on, I found out the doctor didn’t really test me, and when they did do the actual test, the only problem I had were anxiety problems, not a developmental disorder. My ability to read social situations seems better than a lot of people’s. (I later found out why the guy diagnosed me. It was because he mentioned his daughters in passing, and being the horny teenager I was, asked a bit more about them. And my voice was a bit nasal. I’m very glad I didn’t wind up going to that doctor, with such a flimsy diagnosis.) ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/103 "2010-01-02T19:19:55Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > My main concern right now is that Curtis is being punished for his disorder. Aspies are very much misunderstood people. Their brains don’t work the same as the rest of us. The idea of behaviors other than what’s specifically in a post is foreign to them. Any chance of predicting what posts will be perceived as bad behavior is practically non-existent, especially at his age. > > … > > Furthermore, I’m not even sure an Aspie could be a troll, as they’d lack the ability to know what would infuriate people. There are a few problems with this. Number one, we have no idea if he has Asperger’s or any illness at all, unless he posts notarized scans of his medical records; and even that could be faked. In fact, my long experience online has shown me that much more than half of all the people I’ve ever seen online who claimed they had “Asperger’s” or “autism” came to that conclusion via a self-diagnosis (sometimes from a Facebook survey, or all things), and in fact they’re just immature mental midgets with no social skills. Furthermore on this point, the SDMB has been infested with trolls in the past who deliberately and knowingly lied about having a medical condition to justify bad behavior. One of the biggest trolls in the history of the SDMB even faked death, with is quite a more serious illness than Asperger’s. Second, Asperger’s is a poorly diagnosed and poorly understood condition with some serious question as to whether it’s even a separate disorder, let alone the symptoms and severity. How can one tell if an Asperger’s patient is being a jerk because they’re an asshole, or because of their disease? Third, it’s really too damn bad if someone can’t follow the rules due to an alleged medical condition, but that’s life. There cannot be multiple sets of rules for every possible permutation and combination of real or pseudo-scientific mental illness someone can come up with to justify why they’re a jerk. It’s an impossible burden for the Moderators to even try to take any alleged illness into account. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/104 "2010-01-02T19:20:23Z")
They may have trouble understanding and correcting, but they will work at it. I have a friend who has been clinically diagnosed with Asperger’s, and while she’s twice **Curtis** ’s alleged age, she knows her limitations. (Although lately she’s been more expecting the world to work with her rather than vice versa, but that’s another story.) Point is, if you’re given a directive you don’t understand, and especially if you know why you may not be understanding it, then you talk about it. Had **Curtis** made an effort to understand what he was doing that was earning warnings and reprimands from the mods, that would be one thing. Maybe he would genuinely not be capable of getting it, but he would be trying (or if not trying, then staying away from a community that he’s clearly not meshing with). Blithely ignoring warnings and doing the same thing over and over has absolutely nothing to do with Asperger’s. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/105 "2010-01-02T19:21:46Z")
I often see these sort of debates erupt over the moderation of the board and they always make me wonder. If you accept ‘Don’t be a jerk’, as a/the primary rule, then how is it you cannot understand that the application of that rule will be, by necessity, high subjective. That it’s the mod’s call to make. That it’s unlikely you’ll always agree with them. That, in the end, we all enjoy a better board experience _because_ of the moderation. I understand if you feel it’s being wrongly applied you feel you should speak up. But once you’ve been told, “For us, this falls under the ‘Don’t be a jerk’ rule.” why isn’t that enough? Maybe you don’t believe he was being a jerk, but surely you can see that such a thing is not an easy line to define, there will always be some room for ‘maybe, maybe not, I could go either way’. For what’s it’s worth I think it was totally deserved, and the mods made the right call. They didn’t hang him, just suspended him for 30 days. Hardly egregious abuse of power, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/106 "2010-01-02T19:25:26Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > Aaaaand the “fighting ignorance” card is flipped onto the table. You’re correct that the card is often misplayed, but I’ll take that “fighting ignorance” card and place it next to the “chilling effect”, “capricious Moderation”, “lack of transparency”, “ban with impunity”, and “nanny state”, “Ed is teh evul”, “Moderator term limits/need to vote for Moderators” cards which are so often played by the Protest Power Rangers. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/107 "2010-01-02T19:25:41Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > You are assuming he is telling the truth about his age and aspergers. Without knowing the poster personally, the board has to treat everybody the same. No they don’t. They can do their same behavior analysis and find out whether the person is likely telling the truth. A troll will always out himself eventually, unless he’s complete sociopath. I’ve seen it alleged before that Curtis is an older person faking. I don’t see any evidence being put forth. Until such, I will behave as I always do: in the absence of evidence to the contrary, I always take someone at their word. The mods said they give mentally ill people a little leeway. I can’t see how they do so unless they at least initially believe them. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/108 "2010-01-02T19:27:16Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I’m not trying to establish free rein. But even if I did, I think it’s pretty obvious the difference between a troll and someone with legitimate Aspergers, not the least because most people don’t understand it well enough to pull it off. Curtis could have Asperger’s or he could be just be an annoying 13 year old (which isn’t all that uncommon). In the absence of an actual medical diagnosis, I’m going with the latter. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/109 "2010-01-02T19:48:21Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I am looking at my profile - where is the "infractions’ tab? Or is this something only visible to a mod? > > Thanks in advance. > > Regards, > Shodan > [@runner pat](#): > > Gary said both you and the mods can see it but not other members. I presume it only shows if you have warnings. That is correct. **Shodan** , you aren’t showing any warnings, which means you haven’t received any since May or June, whenever the new system went into effect. We have to go into the cobwebby back room and paw through the clay tablets to find out about any warnings issued before then. If you’re not sure if you have any (and are concerned about it), you – or anyone – can ask a mod to check for you. (I’d be willing but don’t have time right now.) ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/110 "2010-01-02T19:59:15Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Protest Power Rangers. Band Name! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/111 "2010-01-02T20:21:29Z")
> [@HongKongFooey](#): > > There goes my Tourette’s defense. > > **sigh** Your multiple personalities are looking a bit dodgy, too. ---
**Author:** ![HongKongFooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c4cdca/32.png) [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/112 "2010-01-02T20:26:04Z")
> [@Scissorjack](#): > > Your multiple personalities are looking a bit dodgy, too. As long as one of them is sane I’m good. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/113 "2010-01-02T20:27:27Z")
> [@Scissorjack](#): > > Your multiple personalities are looking a bit dodgy, too. There’s a question. Can each personality have their own account or do they all have to post under the same username?😃 ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/114 "2010-01-02T20:35:30Z")
All right. I think I’ve made myself clear. I skipped some people that responded to me because I thought I’d already made the argument. It’s at least 2 hours past the time I normally go to bed. I think tacoloco’s last response makes the most sense of any argument I’ve seen. I’ve pretty much been stuck in the false dichotomy of 13 yo Aspie or 30+ yo troll. Typical 13yo does make sense, especially if you allow that he has some Aspie tendencies (which would explain possible online test results). I still think he leans more towards real Aspie, but I could be as wrong as that doc about me. I’m pretty much throwing in the towel. When Curtis was pitted a while back for being annoying, I kinda wound up taking the mantle of trying to defend him, since I knew about the Aspie post. I’m really big about defending people with mental disorders because I know how hard that life can be. I really hoped he could stick around, as he mentioned being banned on other boards, and I decided I’d to everything in my power to keep him around. I’ve tried explaining pedantically how he could avoid being misinterpreted or insulting. I’ve defended him more than once from other posters. But it’s too much work. I’m gonna give it up. I hope he can change if/when he comes back. And maybe I’ll try to help out a little if there’s a misunderstanding. But it’s no longer something I’m gonna spend great energy on doing. (It’s not like I was doing that great a job anyways, since I missed all of his warnings.) I hope I didn’t stir up any hurt feelings in this thread. I apologize if I did. Barring any unforseen circumstance, I won’t be back to this thread. I’ve let it take up too much residence in my head already. On preview: thanks guys at the end for making me laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/115 "2010-01-02T20:45:54Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I am looking at my profile - where is the "infractions’ tab? Or is this something only visible to a mod? > > Thanks in advance. > > Regards, > Shodan If you click on “User CP” the infractions tab will be the default thing you see, to forever remind of you of your misdeeds. Presumably it only shows up if you have infractions, as I do, so it shows up. ---
**Author:** ![HongKongFooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c4cdca/32.png) [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/116 "2010-01-02T20:59:10Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I hope I didn’t stir up any hurt feelings in this thread. I don’t think you should lose any sleep over it. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/117 "2010-01-02T21:07:33Z")
Just as a general statement: we are usually VERY understanding when someone lets us know that they are having medical problems, mental health issues, or just heavy stress (like undergoing divorce or the death of a loved one.) We can and do make exceptions, we can waive warnings, we can offer “friendly warnings” rather than Official ones, and we do generally try very hard to be empathetic. At the same time, we have the obligation to moderate the boards. We would be very sympathic to someone with Tourrets, say, but that doesn’t mean we can allow them to insult other posters. We’d be sympathetic to someone who is bipolar, but that doesn’t mean that they can set up two usernames (one for up, one for down.) I’m sympathetic to persons with physical or emotional/mental disabilities, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to argue that a blind person should get a driver’s license. Telling someone that they can’t post here unless they follow certain rules, that’s not a “punishment.” There are plenty of Message Boards where they can post, where there are fewer rules, and I’d guess there are even MBs specially for their particular disorder. And, of course, normally the only “evidence” that we have of someone having a particular illness/disability is their own word for it. If the underlying problem is what appears to be trolling, then we need to take their word with a barrel of salt. The decision of whether someone is trolling, or is just take provocative positions, is not usually clear. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/118 "2010-01-02T21:54:34Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > That is correct. **Shodan** , you aren’t showing any warnings, which means you haven’t received any since May or June, whenever the new system went into effect. We have to go into the cobwebby back room and paw through the clay tablets to find out about any warnings issued before then. If you’re not sure if you have any (and are concerned about it), you – or anyone – can ask a mod to check for you. (I’d be willing but don’t have time right now.) Thanks (as well as to **runner pat** ). No need to bother with checking - I was just curious. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/119 "2010-01-02T23:50:48Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Finally, mental illness is a big thing for me. I’ve seen at least two people essentially pitted for their illness. Do you have a link to those threads? Not that I don’t believe you, but I’d like to see them for myself. I myself have OCD. However, I don’t want any special treatment from the mods because of it. If I am incapable of following the rules for whatever reason, then that’s my problem, not their’s. Same with **Curtis**. Your type of argument actually only gives those of us who DO deal with mental disorders a bad name – that we can get away with bad behavior and blame it on our disorders. And what’s to stop people from claiming that they can’t stop being jerks because they have this or that disorder? I believe that was the claim of the infamous **Mark Serlin**? If **Curtis** IS only thirteen (and quite frankly, a lot of his actions seem to say so to me), then he needs to realize that he’s arguing on a board populated by adults. IF he can’t do so, then he’s not meant to be here. Is that fair? Maybe, maybe not. But why should WE have to put up with it, just because someone else is incapable of being civil? (Besides, as someone else pointed out, it’s only a SUSPENSION. It’s not a banning. Yeesh) ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323/120 "2010-01-03T00:13:15Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Huh? Jurors make judgments of intent every day, based on evidence presented to them. Was it murder or manslaughter? Hate crime or not? Etc. Mods can and do make similar decisions, referencing a poster’s past history and the mod’s experience. Yes, but there is no right to a jury trial when it comes to this board. If the guy really does have an illness, then I feel sorry for him, but this board isn’t like real life. The mods don’t have to make a special exemption for him because of that. What if someone has alcoholism and he comes on here every night and posts drunken tirades laced with profanity and personal insults? Should we use the illness of alcoholism to say that we have to put up with it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/problematic-moderation-rico-and-curtis-lemay/523323.md?page=7)