# Procedural question: What if Obama were kidnapped by aliens? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 29, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/procedural-question-what-if-obama-were-kidnapped-by-aliens/614371 "2012-02-29T18:21:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/procedural-question-what-if-obama-were-kidnapped-by-aliens/614371/1 "2012-02-29T18:21:03Z")
This isn’t really an Elections question, so I put it here. What if the PotUS just suddenly disappeared? How? Where? We don’t know, and it doesn’t matter: he’s fine, but he’s not coming back. What happens with the election? Okay, Biden is sworn in and he’ll get us through the rest of Obama’s term, but then what? The party bigwigs put their heads together to try to come up with a new candidate, fast. Biden is out; he’s a nice old guy but he’s too old and too goofy to represent the Dems. Sorry, Joe. Enjoy your retirement. Assuming the party can settle on a candidate and the candidate is up for it, can the party even start a new candidacy this late in the game? The states that have already voted have picked delegates who are committed to Obama. Are they allowed to switch to somebody else, or does the new guy just have to lose those states? What about the FEC filing deadlines? Would all of this get officially thrashed out at the convention, or does Romney just run unopposed this year, with the Dems just forced to sit it out? ---
**Author:** ![postcards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e8cbc/32.png) [@postcards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postcards)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/procedural-question-what-if-obama-were-kidnapped-by-aliens/614371/2 "2012-02-29T19:22:26Z")
> [@a35362](#): > > …The party bigwigs put their heads together to try to come up with a new candidate, fast. > > …Assuming the party can settle on a candidate and the candidate is up for it, can the party even start a new candidacy this late in the game? You’ve just about described what happens at a political convention. Which is how they did it for years, nay, for decades in the past. Primaries have only [really meant much since 1952](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_primary#History); and only really became the standard after the troubles with the 1968 Democratic convention. Before that it was the proverbial smoke-filled room that decided the candidate. And I disagree with your initial statement: this most certainly belongs in the Elections forum. I really hoped there’d be some discussion about negotiations with the aliens for Obama’s release, and the communication problems inherent. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/procedural-question-what-if-obama-were-kidnapped-by-aliens/614371/3 "2012-02-29T19:27:07Z")
If we know he’s alive, but he’s not able or willing to perform the functions of his office, I assume there must first be some procedure to certify that, but I don’t know what it is. He might be impeached and removed from office, though, if he’s simply unwilling. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mike\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_H)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/procedural-question-what-if-obama-were-kidnapped-by-aliens/614371/4 "2012-02-29T19:49:11Z")
There is. The 25th amendment to the Constitution provides that: > [@](#): > > Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President. I think the VP and the cabinet could agree that being kidnapped by aliens would count as being “unable to dischage the powers and duties of his office”. The 25th amendment goes onto explain how the President can declare he’s ready to assume office, and if the Congress doesn’t agree how it can vote to override that. If POTUS is vanished from the earth , that would be a little difficult for him to do that however. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/procedural-question-what-if-obama-were-kidnapped-by-aliens/614371/5 "2012-02-29T20:00:41Z")
Assuming he was still gone at the time of the convention, the Democrats would have to choose a candidate; there are deadlines to meet. The convention could choose based upon any way they want; the delegates would vote for the winner. If he came back before election day, the substitute candidate would remain on the ballot due to deadlines. However, the substitute could instruct their electors to vote for Obama in the Electoral college. The complications are that certain states require their electors to vote for a particular candidate. The question would be whether the electors will vote for Obama or for the candidate they were original pledged to, and if they changed, how the faithless elector laws would be enforced, and how much the electors were willing to go to jail for breaking the law. If he came back after the Electoral College voted, he’d be out of luck. ---
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/procedural-question-what-if-obama-were-kidnapped-by-aliens/614371/6 "2012-02-29T20:42:45Z")
Okay, I really have to stress the “he’s not coming back” part of my OP. I brought in space aliens because I didn’t want to say, “What if Obama died?” There will be no negotiations with the aliens. They are halfway to Alpha Centauri by now. In discussing how the Republicans just REALLY don’t seem to like Mitt Romney and seem to be willing to find Somebody Else to run for Prez, somebody always mentions filing deadlines for running for office, not to mention that voting has already begun. This is what I was getting at. I thought you _couldn’t_ just pick somebody at the convention, because the voters had already voted for somebody else, and that just picking some other guy would circumvent democracy and be a bad thing. Assuming of course that you could get hundreds of Democratic Party delegates and superdelegates and other power broker types to agree on anything, especially under pressure and time constraints, and trying to sell the new guy, a virtual unknown, to a majority of the voters before Election Day. Could be interesting… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/procedural-question-what-if-obama-were-kidnapped-by-aliens/614371/7 "2012-02-29T20:56:31Z")
> [@](#): > > In discussing how the Republicans just REALLY don’t seem to like Mitt Romney and seem to be willing to find Somebody Else to run for Prez, somebody always mentions filing deadlines for running for office, not to mention that voting has already begun. This is what I was getting at. I thought you couldn’t just pick somebody at the convention, because the voters had already voted for somebody else, and that just picking some other guy would circumvent democracy and be a bad thing. The current rules of the parties (and they are only the parties’ rules, not actual law) is that delegates vote at the convention, and if nobody has enough delegate votes, then then hash it out in the smoke-filled rooms. Since this situation has been implemented, someone’s always been able to get enough delegates on the first round of voting, and so the question of a brokered convention is moot. But in this hypothetical, _nobody_ would have _any_ delegates, and so therefore nobody would get a majority of them, and you’d go straight to the brokering. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/procedural-question-what-if-obama-were-kidnapped-by-aliens/614371/8 "2012-02-29T20:58:43Z")
> [@a35362](#): > > Okay, I really have to stress the “he’s not coming back” part of my OP. I brought in space aliens because I didn’t want to say, “What if Obama died?” There will be no negotiations with the aliens. They are halfway to Alpha Centauri by now. I think he might well escape and return before long. [He knows about teleportation, and is trained and experienced in defending himself against Martians.](http://exopolitics.blogs.com/exopolitics/2011/11/mars-visitors-basiago-and-stillings-confirm-barack-obama-traveled-to-mars-1.html) Alpha Centaurians can’t be that much tougher. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/procedural-question-what-if-obama-were-kidnapped-by-aliens/614371/9 "2012-02-29T21:01:24Z")
If for some reason - kidnapped by aliens, lost in space, sleeping for 20 years in upstate New York, in a coma after being hit by a beer truck - the prospective candidate disappears and then nomination closes - well, sorry, candidate is SOL. If it’s more important to commune with aliens than run the USA, then tough luck; phone home. It’s not like nobody knew the process was coming and what the deadlines were… As mentioned, if it happens before the convention, the convention has rules on how to proceed with the nomination of someone. I’m sure the most influential people in the party will weigh in with opinions over who or whose wife to nominate. Foremost in their minds will be “this candidate has to win the election against Romney too.” The real question is - what if the candidate goes walkabout after the nomination but before the election? I don’t know, but I assume that’s what VP’s are for. The problem is - will you gain more sympathy votes than you lose votes because “I wanted the pres not his second banana.” Once you have a president but no VP, then - there’s a constitutional app for that. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/procedural-question-what-if-obama-were-kidnapped-by-aliens/614371/10 "2012-02-29T21:05:56Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The current rules of the parties (and they are only the parties’ rules, not actual law) is that delegates vote at the convention, and if nobody has enough delegate votes, then then hash it out in the smoke-filled rooms. Since this situation has been implemented, someone’s always been able to get enough delegates on the first round of voting, and so the question of a brokered convention is moot. But in this hypothetical, _nobody_ would have _any_ delegates, and so therefore nobody would get a majority of them, and you’d go straight to the brokering. What are the rules for delegates whose candidate has dropped out already (or dropped dead, or dropped off the face of the earth?) What are the rules if one cadidate kicks off before the vote, after nominations close? Ashcroft, for example, lost to a dead guy in a senate race IIRC - plane crash a few weeks before. That’s why I assume the vote would go forward and the VP would step in as pres-elect after winning the vote. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/procedural-question-what-if-obama-were-kidnapped-by-aliens/614371/11 "2012-03-01T01:54:57Z")
> [@a35362](#): > > Okay, I really have to stress the “he’s not coming back” part of my OP. I brought in space aliens because I didn’t want to say, “What if Obama died?” There will be no negotiations with the aliens. But there are with the Grim Reaper? ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/procedural-question-what-if-obama-were-kidnapped-by-aliens/614371/12 "2012-03-01T02:14:54Z")
> [@a35362](#): > > Okay, I really have to stress the “he’s not coming back” part of my OP. I brought in space aliens because I didn’t want to say, “What if Obama died?” > … I’m sure–and certainly hope–that the Secret Service regularly spiders the Web for words like “died” and “Obama” in close proximity. Maybe now you and me will cross paths soon in the hallways of Leavenworth. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/procedural-question-what-if-obama-were-kidnapped-by-aliens/614371/13 "2012-03-01T03:05:12Z")
[What the hell is this, some kind of tube?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqWuwZElgDg) ---
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/procedural-question-what-if-obama-were-kidnapped-by-aliens/614371/14 "2012-03-01T03:28:04Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > I’m sure–and certainly hope–that the Secret Service regularly spiders the Web for words like “died” and “Obama” in close proximity. > > Maybe now you and me will cross paths soon in the hallways of Leavenworth. :smack: See, that was kinda my point, there. Hello, Secret Service! BIG supporter of Obama here! I’m completely harmless in every way. Keep up the good work! ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/procedural-question-what-if-obama-were-kidnapped-by-aliens/614371/15 "2012-03-01T14:14:34Z")
There have been lots of opportunities for candidates to become ex-candidates betwen the end of primaries and the close of nominations, and between the close of nominations and the election (and between the election and the swearing in); whether state contests, presidential tickets, senate or congress. There are rules in each case. ---
**Author:** ![AZCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/procedural-question-what-if-obama-were-kidnapped-by-aliens/614371/16 "2012-03-01T18:45:50Z")
> [@a35362](#): > > … and that just picking some other guy would circumvent democracy and be a bad thing. For those of us in the US, luckily, we do not live in a democracy, so circumventing one isn’t really an issue. Whether circumventing a democracy is a good or bad thing is a subject better addressed in other forums. In the US, there is no federally protected “right to vote” for the POTUS. Any such right is derived from the states, not the Constitution itself. I’m no expert, and could be taken to school here, but in all of these scenarios, I don’t think there is any threat to our current system if the presumed nominee/candidate disappeared even AFTER the general election, and probably not a serious issue until up to the first Monday after the second Wednesday in December - the date the electors of each state are required to meet. Up until that point, state laws and rules govern how electors are selected. > [@](#): > > There is no Constitutional provision or Federal law requiring electors to vote in accordance with the popular vote in their States. > **[The Electoral College](https://www.archives.gov/electoral-college)** > > It's a Process, not a Place The Electoral College is how we refer to the process by which the United States elects the President, even though that term does not appear in the U.S. Constitution. In this process, the States (which includes the District... So, while it may be a serious issue if the candidate disappears after the general election but before the meeting of the electoral college, the issues would be based on the rules of 50 separate states - no single answer can address this question. Other interesting reading on this topic: [http://archive.fairvote.org/index.php?page=205](http://archive.fairvote.org/index.php?page=205) > **[Frequently Asked Questions](https://www.archives.gov/electoral-college/faq)** > > Click the links below for answers to these frequently asked questions. Who verifies if a candidate is qualified to run for President? What happens if the President-elect fails to qualify before inauguration? What happens if a candidate with electoral... ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/procedural-question-what-if-obama-were-kidnapped-by-aliens/614371/17 "2012-03-01T19:12:43Z")
> [@AZCowboy](#): > > For those of us in the US, luckily, we do not live in a democracy, By every reasonable definition of the word we do; we live in a republic, which is a form of democracy, as opposed to a direct democracy, which is the form of democracy that very few polities even attempt. ---
**Author:** ![Pixel\_Dent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@Pixel\_Dent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixel_Dent)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/procedural-question-what-if-obama-were-kidnapped-by-aliens/614371/18 "2012-03-01T19:12:46Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > What are the rules for delegates whose candidate has dropped out already (or dropped dead, or dropped off the face of the earth?) > > What are the rules if one cadidate kicks off before the vote, after nominations close? Whatever the rules are, the convention can change the rules on the fly with the correct procedural votes so there’s no way any party will find themselves without a nominee. The deadlines for submitting slates of electors to the state all come after the conventions. ---
**Author:** ![AZCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/procedural-question-what-if-obama-were-kidnapped-by-aliens/614371/19 "2012-03-01T21:06:31Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > By every reasonable definition of the word we do; we live in a republic, which is a form of democracy, as opposed to a direct democracy, which is the form of democracy that very few polities even attempt. I won’t quibble with what you wrote - I agree with it as far as it goes. However, from a federal perspective on the election of the POTUS, there is really very little that relates to democracy. The original framers certainly didn’t intend to require states to hold popular elections for the President (and in fact, in early years, some states didn’t). And the federal government does not require how state legislatures are formed (far as I know). So there really isn’t anything, at a federal level, that ties the selection of the President to any democratic principles. In practice, of course, all states do hold general elections for POTUS, and therefore there is a democratic nature to our selection of the POTUS. But it isn’t enshrined in the Constitution nor in the Electoral College. The point being that the scenario presented in the OP does not present systemic problems during all of these primaries and even up to and beyond the parties conventions. At this stage, it would only be problems for the parties themselves, not the integrity of the selection of the POTUS itself. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/procedural-question-what-if-obama-were-kidnapped-by-aliens/614371/20 "2012-03-01T23:40:57Z")
> [@](#): > > And the federal government does not require how state legislatures are formed (far as I know). So there really isn’t anything, at a federal level, that ties the selection of the President to any democratic principles. It does require them to be republican in form, and a republic is a form of a democracy. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/procedural-question-what-if-obama-were-kidnapped-by-aliens/614371.md?page=2)