# Proceeds of Crime - in the US **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 14, 2011, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proceeds-of-crime-in-the-us/567589 "2011-01-14T14:01:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![GreedySmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a698b9/32.png) [@GreedySmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreedySmurf)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proceeds-of-crime-in-the-us/567589/1 "2011-01-14T14:01:26Z")
My question was actually prompted by an old SVU episode, but that’s besides the point really. Some online research confirms that assets involved in the commission of crimes can be seized. But I couldn’t find anything for outside Australia on forfeiting post-crime ‘proceeds’. In Australia, there is legislation that prevents convicted criminals from benefiting from their crime in any way. This includes any proceeds generated post the criminal activity if it relies on that crime. EG payments for media interviews, or say if the criminal published a book about his crime. Those monies can and likely would be seized. I’m wondering if there is any similar legislation in the US, or indeed any other countries? ---
**Author:** ![EristicKallistic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/85e7bf/32.png) [@EristicKallistic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EristicKallistic)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proceeds-of-crime-in-the-us/567589/2 "2011-01-14T14:38:38Z")
Google this as “Son of Sam” laws, as that was the case in the US that prompted the passage of these types of laws. In the US, many laws are state-specific. I believe somewhere around 40+ of our 50 states have some sort of Son of Sam law. In New York, where this originated, it originally applied only to writing about your crime, but was later amended to include broader definition of what was prohibited (as the original one was struck down by the Supremes) ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proceeds-of-crime-in-the-us/567589/3 "2011-01-14T14:44:04Z")
The Goldman’s unpaid civil judgement against (two-time killer) OJ won them the monetary rights to his book IFI DID IT ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proceeds-of-crime-in-the-us/567589/4 "2011-01-14T14:47:08Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > The Goldman’s unpaid civil judgement against (two-time killer) OJ won them the monetary rights to his book IFI DID IT OJ Simpson was never convicted criminally (ETA: for murder, anyway), so this case really has nothing to do with the OP’s question. The correct answer is what **EristicKallistic** posted – the Wikipedia article on the [Son of Sam law](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_Sam_law) has a good outline of the history in New York and other US jurisdictions. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proceeds-of-crime-in-the-us/567589/5 "2011-01-14T16:59:28Z")
The US has EXTREMELY draconian asset forfeiture laws not only do you not have to be convicted of a crime, once your assets are seized it the burden of evidence is on YOU to prove you are innocence. Additionally the profit from the seized assets goes to the police dept doing the seizing. Here is the [wiki page](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_forfeiture#Asset_forfeiture_in_the_United_States). Here is a particularly heinous [example](http://boingboing.net/2009/12/04/how-police-departs-u.html): > [@](#): > > The way Krista Vaughn sees it, Wayne County fined her $1,400 even though police and prosecutors admit she broke no laws. > > Vaughn, who has no criminal record, was required to pay for the return of her car, which was seized by police after they mistook Vaughn’s co-worker for a prostitute. Even though prosecutors later dropped the case, Vaughn still had to pay. > > Her story is not unusual. In Wayne County, law enforcement officials regularly seize vehicles without levying charges – even in cases in which they later concede no law was broken. The agency provides perhaps the most prolific and egregious example of what critics contend is the wrongful use of laws allowing the seizure of private property. And [another](http://www.isil.org/resources/lit/looting-of-america.html): > [@](#): > > Police stopped 49-year-old Ethel Hylton at Houston’s Hobby Airport and told her she was under arrest because a drug dog had scratched at her luggage. Agents searched her bags and strip-searched her, but they found no drugs. They did find $39,110 in cash, money she had received from an insurance settlement and her life savings; accumulated through over 20 years of work as a hotel housekeeper and hospital janitor. Ethel Hylton completely documented where she got the money and was never charged with a crime. But the police kept her money anyway. Nearly four years later, she is still trying to get her money back. ---
**Author:** ![EristicKallistic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/85e7bf/32.png) [@EristicKallistic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EristicKallistic)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proceeds-of-crime-in-the-us/567589/6 "2011-01-14T17:36:34Z")
That’s as may be, but very far from what the OP was asking about. Please ride your hobby horse off into its own thread,if you like. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proceeds-of-crime-in-the-us/567589/7 "2011-01-14T19:22:47Z")
What do you mean by “post-crime” proceeds, then? The obvious is the “son of Sam” proceeds - payment for interviews, books, etc. This would be interesting, though… what if it were someone writing their memoirs which included one criminal episode? “Your book has 1 chapter out of 12 about the crime, so we are seizing 1/12 of your profits”? What about the classic “hacker who turns consultant” story? You are profiting form your crime by turning it into a career. Not sure how any statute of limitations applies for civil suits, but I would imagine you could not suddenly file a new lawsuit to recover damages 5 or 10 years after the crime and damage was done. I seriously doubt any law allows you to place a lien/owner on someone’s livlihood (except in paternity cases?). I’m not sure what other after-the-crime benefits someone might receive. ---
**Author:** ![EristicKallistic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/85e7bf/32.png) [@EristicKallistic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EristicKallistic)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proceeds-of-crime-in-the-us/567589/8 "2011-01-14T19:35:51Z")
They actually (at least in NY) rewrote the laws to make it more broad. It was originally just for writing about your specific crime. The Supreme Court ruled that this was contrary to Free Speech, so NY modified it to be a more general sense of profiting from criminal acts. There is still some doubt that this would survive, but the laws have yet to be challenged. I would suppose (having not read the law specifically and not actually being a lawyer) that it only covers directly profiting from your criminal activity. So your hacker should be OK – he is profiting by his knowledge, which is presumably legal. He is not profiting from his specific criminal activity (which would be something like, “illegally accessing X computer on Y date” or something). He did at one point use his computer knowledge to commit a crime, but it was not the knowledge that was illegal, but the act. If I learn how to shoot a rifle very well for the purpose of armed robbery, I can later use that skill for, say, becoming a professional marksman. I cannot take the money I get from that robbery, it is forfeit. I cannot sell the rights to my crime story to FOX for a TV-Movie. Or if I do, the money goes to the victims of my crime. If there is a doubt as to whether something counts as “profiting from crime”, it would be decided by the courts, and argued by attorneys on either side. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proceeds-of-crime-in-the-us/567589/9 "2011-01-14T19:53:39Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > OJ Simpson was never convicted criminally (ETA: for murder, anyway), so this case really has nothing to do with the OP’s question. > > The correct answer is what **EristicKallistic** posted – the Wikipedia article on the [Son of Sam law](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_Sam_law) has a good outline of the history in New York and other US jurisdictions. But often proceeds of crimes law can fall in to catergory of civil law rather than criminal law, requiring a civil rather than criminal level of proof. So it’s possible for someone to be acquitted yet still have these laws used against them. I’m not sure how much this is the case in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proceeds-of-crime-in-the-us/567589/10 "2011-01-14T19:55:17Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > What do you mean by “post-crime” proceeds, then? > > The obvious is the “son of Sam” proceeds - payment for interviews, books, etc. This would be interesting, though… what if it were someone writing their memoirs which included one criminal episode? “Your book has 1 chapter out of 12 about the crime, so we are seizing 1/12 of your profits”? > > What about the classic “hacker who turns consultant” story? You are profiting form your crime by turning it into a career. Not sure how any statute of limitations applies for civil suits, but I would imagine you could not suddenly file a new lawsuit to recover damages 5 or 10 years after the crime and damage was done. I seriously doubt any law allows you to place a lien/owner on someone’s livlihood (except in paternity cases?). > > I’m not sure what other after-the-crime benefits someone might receive. Arthur Shawcross painted pictures in prison and sold them. The courts determined that the value of his paintings was derived from his notoriety as a serial killer and was therefore proceeds from his crimes. The money he got from his paintings was seized. ---
**Author:** ![GreedySmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a698b9/32.png) [@GreedySmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreedySmurf)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proceeds-of-crime-in-the-us/567589/11 "2011-01-15T00:37:50Z")
> [@EristicKallistic](#): > > Google this as “Son of Sam” laws, as that was the case in the US that prompted the passage of these types of laws. > > In the US, many laws are state-specific. I believe somewhere around 40+ of our 50 states have some sort of Son of Sam law. In New York, where this originated, it originally applied only to writing about your crime, but was later amended to include broader definition of what was prohibited (as the original one was struck down by the Supremes) Thanks for that. I’ll check them out. The only stuff I could turn up on Google was the asset forfeiture laws, and the debate around those, which isn’t specifically what I was after. Funnily enough, the show that prompted my interest was an episode that was a variation on the actual Son of Sam events.