# Produce (fruits & veggies) question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 29, 2021, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-fruits-veggies-question/956863 "2021-12-29T17:21:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-fruits-veggies-question/956863/41 "2021-12-31T05:36:48Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > . . . and kohlrabi . . . I’ve mentioned it before on this Board, I always thought Kohlrabi was a medieval Jewish Talmudic scholar/philosopher/writer. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-fruits-veggies-question/956863/42 "2021-12-31T12:24:23Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Same with snails and other mollusks. Shellfish have been on the menu for a while. > **[Earliest Known Seafood Dinner Discovered](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earliest-known-seafood-di/)** > > Dished out with a side of symbolic thought > Researchers excavating a cave on the southern coast of South Africa discovered a bowl’s worth of edible shellfish dating back to about 165,000 years ago, when Africa was colder and drier—pushing back the earliest known seafood meal by 40,000 years. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-fruits-veggies-question/956863/43 "2021-12-31T12:47:49Z")
A couple folks mentioned strawberries just being bigger, but IME those are usually a cross of _Fragaria virginiana_ and _chiloensis_, from North and South America, respectively. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-fruits-veggies-question/956863/44 "2021-12-31T15:29:24Z")
They don’t run away or bite your face off. Easy protein. ---
**Author:** ![Bonum\_Legatum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bonum_legatum/32/6183_2.png) [@Bonum\_Legatum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bonum_Legatum)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-fruits-veggies-question/956863/45 "2021-12-31T15:43:24Z")
Let us consider the “three sisters” of corn, squash, and beans. Corn - obviously not. Squash and Beans - hard to determine as they have been domesticated for centuries. But I’ll say “close enough”. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-fruits-veggies-question/956863/46 "2021-12-31T17:24:33Z")
I wonder if the question ought to be framed as (italics are my addition): > What fruit or veggie that I might find in my local grocer’s produce section most closely resembles its pre-cultivated/ unaltered-by-humans _(i.e. domesticated)_ state? I’m not sure nopales are cultivated in the sense of a domesticated plant; they’re just something that grows wild all over Mexico and the SW US, and is just harvested. My guess would be some sort of tree nut like pecans. The domesticated ones are considerably larger and thinner shelled than the “wild” ones, but they’re essentially the same otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-fruits-veggies-question/956863/47 "2021-12-31T18:18:28Z")
I remember reading that most tree-based fruits and nuts are not domesticated; we get the more developed versions (bigger fruit, interesting varieties, etc.) from grafted shoots over the centuries. So wild versions of those fruits and nuts would tend to be more like their ancient varieties. The logic was, especially for nuts (the tree products, not the farmers) that the life cycle of the trees was too long for concerted selective breeding to have significant results, particularly for slow growth items like acorns and chestnuts. Plants that reproduce in a season are much easier to selectively and continuously pick the largest/best for replanting and slowly overwhelm their tendency of being diluted by being pollinated by surrounding wild varieties. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2022, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-fruits-veggies-question/956863/48 "2022-01-01T22:54:24Z")
Yes, there is some selective breeding of nuts these days (hazelnut breeding is especially active) but a lot of the commercially available pecans were selected from wild trees, and propagated by grafting. So they are exactly like the best of the wild nuts that were around prior to cultivation. I don’t remember where i ran into it, but i read an article about the guy who first recognized the commercial potential of the native pecan and selected some. (A Black man in the south. I think it was an article mostly about unrecognized accomplishments of Black people in America.) ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2022, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-fruits-veggies-question/956863/49 "2022-01-01T23:39:05Z")
Speaking of eating shellfish Wikipedia has a section devoted to mounds of seafood shells left by old settlements: > **[Midden | Shells](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midden#Shells)** > > A shell midden or shell mound is an archaeological feature consisting mainly of mollusk shells. The Danish term køkkenmøddinger (plural) was first used by Japetus Steenstrup to describe shell heaps and continues to be used by some researchers. A midden, by definition, contains the debris of human activity, and should not be confused with wind- or tide-created beach mounds. Some shell middens are processing remains: areas where aquatic resources were processed directly after harvest and prior to u... ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-fruits-veggies-question/956863/50 "2022-01-02T01:24:40Z")
squash has many species , and they are hybridized to make suitable ones to grow in more locations, but keep the flavours and other properties. For example, the “pumpkin” in the shops in Australia are green ? because the orange ones won’t like the conditions, green skin pumpkin is a hybrid of squash species into order to get pumpkin flavour (and colour of the starchy food part ) in a green skinned squash. “Grammar” is an older not-quite-pumpkin flavour of squash. Maybe grammar is closer to wild versions ? Chayote/Choko may be the fruit closest to wild, but that may be why might not even be in your local shops !. Because there isn’t much diversity to the wild versions, there’s only some slight change, and thats in the skin colouring, and there is little benefit in trying to engineer a new variety … it already grows well in a wide variety of climates and conditions, produces good yield, with a bland flavour (no need to dilute the flavour )… and no direction for any benefit, it suggests nothing will result from trying. (you’d sooner combine two gourds that have flavour… so as to get it to produce a mixed flavour or a new flavour. ) ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-fruits-veggies-question/956863/51 "2022-01-02T01:29:33Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Yes, there is some selective breeding of nuts these days (hazelnut breeding is especially active) Somebody needs to do something with hicory nuts. The meat is great, but getting to it is very difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-fruits-veggies-question/956863/52 "2022-01-02T01:42:04Z")
Looks like “pumpkin” is used as a generic term for squash in Australia. I see orange-colored squash are in fact grown there and also jack o’ lantern type pumpkins, though the latter don’t ripen at the right time for Halloween. > **[Planting, Growing and Harvesting Pumpkin](https://www.bunnings.com.au/diy-advice/garden/planting-and-growing/planting-growing-and-harvesting-pumpkin)** > > Who doesn’t love pumpkin soup or roasted pumpkin? Yum! Grow your own pumpkin to provide a steady supply of this key ingredient. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-fruits-veggies-question/956863/53 "2022-01-02T03:55:18Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Looks like “pumpkin” is used as a generic term for squash in Australia. We have both. This is what we call a squash - seems appropriate to the shape! > **[Yellow squash](https://www.taste.com.au/healthy/articles/yellow-squash/xld884d7?nk=3b1d7d64e842b19a22df92dd6c5fa478-1704837335)** > > From the same family that includes pumpkin and zucchini, yellow squash is a versatile vegetable. What USAns call butternut squash we call butternut pumpkins, yes. > **[What is butternut squash?](https://www.bestrecipes.com.au/articles/butternut-squash-australia/cgqfvxrw?nk=78e9f9904ca0e271fe1d1ad10b68b542-1704837337)** > > How to distinguish between butternut, yellow and winter squash. We get Jack-o-lantern pumpkins in the stores at Halloween, even though that event is a fairly recent import here. Other common pumpkins locally are the Japanese and Queensland Blue shown here: > **[A Guide To Pumpkin Varieties In Australia](https://www.homestolove.com.au/plant-guide-pumpkins-13036)** > > Pumpkins are a highly versatile plant that can be adapted to many recipes. Here are 5 of the most common varieties available in Australia. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-fruits-veggies-question/956863/54 "2022-01-02T04:13:25Z")
So… Do you call a zucchini a squash? I grew up distinguishing between summer squash (like zucchini, and that thing you’ve pictured) and winter squash, like butternut. I’m guessing you call all the winter squashes “pumpkin”. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-fruits-veggies-question/956863/55 "2022-01-02T04:58:27Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > So… Do you call a zucchini a squash? No, we call them zucchinis 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-fruits-veggies-question/956863/56 "2022-01-02T20:11:34Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > I remember reading years ago that rocket was found growing on the slopes of Vesuvius, within the last few decades, by a guy who read about it in Roman texts and determined to find it. So it was re-introduced into western food quite recently, in presumably its now-wild form. > > How true that story - and my memory. - is I am not sure! Your post jogged my memory. Rocket, when sold in the UK, is commonly described as “wild rocket”. Here’s a pack - inevitably google photos has cropped the image, and managed to hide the relevant part, but click on the photo to see the full image. [![Google Photos](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ABLVV874CwUjZ4exvMru4mUHrFzAN4JSLzW01w6VE8PtazXMYHPOjgE_hl2PR8Y_g4tFYqgBPigsO9EOKI89He-FbU2IE-M01kr529SDKkpn9dJDPZB66gY=w600-h315-p-k "New item by j") ](https://photos.app.goo.gl/LvwJCiK8icDGegpg6) This naming practice always struck me as weird. Maybe the claim is simply that it is the (wholly) unaltered wild plant, albeit (presumably) commercially grown. j ETA - sometimes editing the post solves the problem with photos ETA2 - not ths time. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-fruits-veggies-question/956863/57 "2022-01-02T23:04:57Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > I remember reading years ago that **rocket** was found growing on the slopes of Vesuvius For those USAns who have no idea why jet propulsion devices got into a culinary discussion, the American English name for this is “arugula”. > **[Eruca vesicaria](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eruca_vesicaria)** > > Arugula > Rocket, eruca, or arugula (Eruca vesicaria; syns. Eruca sativa Mill., E. vesicaria subsp. sativa (Miller) Thell., Brassica eruca L.) is an edible annual plant in the family Brassicaceae used as a leaf vegetable for its fresh, tart, bitter, and peppery flavor. Its other common names include "garden rocket" (in Britain, Australia, South Africa, Ireland, and New Zealand), as well as "colewort", "roquette", "ruchetta", "rucola", "rucoli", and "rugula". E. vesicaria is widely popular as a s... (Hadn’t seen anyone draw the equivalence in the thread yet.) ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-fruits-veggies-question/956863/58 "2022-01-02T23:17:00Z")
scallions, leeks, chives and chivey things ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-fruits-veggies-question/956863/59 "2022-01-03T01:42:48Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > For those USAns who have no idea why jet propulsion devices got into a culinary discussion, the American English name for this is “arugula”. I was also thrown off by “rockets”, but I recognized the plant from the picture. Here it’s called Rucola. I’ve heard arugula before. Now I’m curious what it’s called in Italy. I’ve always thought it came from there. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-fruits-veggies-question/956863/60 "2022-01-03T22:02:14Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > For those USAns who have no idea why jet propulsion devices got into a culinary discussion, the American English name for this is “arugula”. > > [Eruca vesicaria - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eruca_vesicaria) Well, I learned something today. > [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > Here it’s called Rucola. er - make that two things? ( 😉) j [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-fruits-veggies-question/956863.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-fruits-veggies-question/956863.md?page=4)