# Produce the SILMARILLION trilogy (or miniseries) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** middle-earth\ **Created:** [June 19, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040 "2011-06-19T16:07:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/1 "2011-06-19T16:07:04Z")
It’s been a good quarter for the evil sector, and Rhymer Industries is thus flush with cash. In fact we have three-quarters of a billion dollars to [del]launder[/del] invest. We’ve decided that there’s no point in working on doomsday devices, as man-the-kind is quite capable of destroying itself without any help; instead we’re going to finance an adaptation of Tolkien’s masterwork, _The Silmarillion_. It’ll be either a big-screen trilogy or an HBO miniseries, depending on your pitch. There’s only one rule. Neither Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh, nor Phillipa Boyens may be involved in any way. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/2 "2011-06-19T16:40:10Z")
The story of the Noldor would make a good Game of Thrones style mini series with action, love, betrayals and battles a-plenty. You would have to expedite the story until they return to middle earth, but from then on you could easily get several season long story arcs. I don’t know if you could stretch the stories of Beren and Luthien or Turin Turambar into trilogies though, both of them would make good one-of movies. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/3 "2011-06-19T16:43:29Z")
Maybe Pixar could do Ainulindalë. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/4 "2011-06-19T17:02:23Z")
John Williams will compose the score, of course… ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/5 "2011-06-19T17:13:44Z")
After thinking about it a bit more: - Season 1: Elves appear, Melkor does bad things, elves go hang out with cool gods, Melkor does bad things (with bonus giant fucking spider), elves go after him, death of Feanor (i will somehow find a way to get Sean Bean to look like an elf, there will probably be a lot of shaving cream involved), lots of elf on orc battle action, lots of elf on goddess sex action, ends with the siege of Angband and Maedhros rescue as the big climax. - Season 2: Battle of sudden flame, Dragons, death of several main characters, Fingolfin vs Morgoth, lots of elf on human sex action, many elven defeats, ends with Morgoth apparently in control - Beren and Luthien movie in between season 2 and 3 - Season 3: The peace of Maedhros, the battle of unnumbered tears, the falls of Doriath, Nargothrond and Gondolin, end the season with a shot of the Valar armies sailing for middle earth. - Turin Turambar movie between seasons 3 and 4 - Season 4: the war of Wrath. - Possible movie about the rise and fall of numenor. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/6 "2011-06-20T00:58:44Z")
Is continuum-buggying within the budget? Because we’re going to need Bach for the Music. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/7 "2011-06-20T08:37:38Z")
Personally I always thought the Silmarilion would best be adapted as an operatic cycle, like the Ring Cycle. You could hit all the high notes in five parts; 1. _Feanor._ It would open with the forging of the Silmarils and cover Morgoth’s theft of them, the destruction of the trees, the Noldorin’s flight to Middle-Earth, and Feanor’s death in battle. 2. _Beren and Tinuviel._ Their story. 3. _The Children of Hurin._ The tragic tale of Turin and Nienor. 4. _The Fall of Gondolin._ The extended version of the story as related in the Book of Lost Tales. 5 _Elendil._ His story, culminating with the War of Wrath, the vanquishing of Morgoth, and the destruction of Beleriand. Possibly with a short postscript featuring the foundation of Numenor and the rise of Sauron. Granted, opera isn’t a very popular storytelling medium these days, but it seems like the Silmarilion was just begging to be adapted by the ghost of Wagner. In my idle time i’ve put a little thought into how it would be staged - Ungoliant, for example, would have to be either an elaborate prop, or an actress in an “evil sorceress” costume whose powers are described in the lyrics but only implied by the action. The Balrogs would have to be much of the same - their presence indicated with lighting changes, sound effects, leitmotif, etc. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/8 "2011-06-20T13:30:12Z")
When (and if) does the Sil go public domain? Did the clock start ticking from the 1973 publishing date, or from some earlier date? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/9 "2011-06-20T13:44:46Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Personally I always thought the Silmarilion would best be adapted as an operatic cycle, like the Ring Cycle. You could hit all the high notes in five parts; > > 1. _Feanor._ It would open with the forging of the Silmarils and cover Morgoth’s theft of them, the destruction of the trees, the Noldorin’s flight to Middle-Earth, and Feanor’s death in battle. > > 2. _Beren and Tinuviel._ Their story. > > 3. _The Children of Hurin._ The tragic tale of Turin and Nienor. > > 4. _The Fall of Gondolin._ The extended version of the story as related in the Book of Lost Tales. > > 5 _Elendil._ His story, culminating with the War of Wrath, the vanquishing of Morgoth, and the destruction of Beleriand. Possibly with a short postscript featuring the foundation of Numenor and the rise of Sauron. I would personally finance an Anna Russell take on the Silmarillion, if I had money… ---
**Author:** ![AndyPolley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@AndyPolley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndyPolley)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/10 "2011-06-20T14:08:39Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Maybe Pixar could do Ainulindalë. > > 😃 Hmm…I like that. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/11 "2011-06-20T14:40:52Z")
I think you’d want to invent some new characters (presumably elves or Maiar, so they could survive through the bajillion year extent of the books), and then have them undergo their own plots against the background of the history depicted in the books. Sort of like Voreinus and Pullo in the Rome tv series. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/12 "2011-06-20T15:03:30Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > 5 _Elendil._ His story, culminating with the War of Wrath, the vanquishing of Morgoth, and the destruction of Beleriand. [nitpick] Think you mean Earendil. [/nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/13 "2011-06-20T17:58:34Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I think you’d want to invent some new characters (presumably elves or Maiar, so they could survive through the bajillion year extent of the books), and then have them undergo their own plots against the background of the history depicted in the books. Sort of like Voreinus and Pullo in the Rome tv series. :eek: Not only are you not allowed in the set, you may not speak to anyone in the production staff. I’m not sure we’ll even let you buy a ticket. Out of curiosity: do you guys want a 3D movie? Because I don’t, but I could be persuaded I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/14 "2011-06-20T19:22:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Out of curiosity: do you guys want a 3D movie? Because I don’t, but I could be persuaded I’m wrong. If you don’t make it 3D from the start, then the studios will inevitably swoop in and do a 3D conversion themselves, after the fact. Better to do it right to begin with, and keep the damage under control. And I have to say, I’m really digging **Smapti** ’s opera idea. Yeah, the medium is much in decline, but this could be just the project to revive it. It makes the question of finding the right composer all the more critical, though. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/15 "2011-06-20T19:54:45Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If you don’t make it 3D from the start, then the studios will inevitably swoop in and do a 3D conversion themselves, after the fact. Better to do it right to begin with, and keep the damage under control. That’s what assassins are for. While you’re bringing in Bach by continua buggy, you can hire whoever you feel necessary to make sure such silliness doesn’t happen. As long as they’re not from the Star Trek universe, because I don’t want you tempted by holodecks. > [@](#): > > And I have to say, I’m really digging **Smapti** ’s opera idea. Yeah, the medium is much in decline, but this could be just the project to revive it. It makes the question of finding the right composer all the more critical, though. Nah, I want a big-budget movie. Tasteful nudity. Jodie Foster is, sadly, too old to play Luthien, and Natalie Portman is too short, but we can cast the former as Melian, at least. And while I’m thinking about it, and while you have the continua buggy, run back to 1978 and get a still-testicled Spielberg to direct. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/16 "2011-06-20T20:06:05Z")
[QUOTE=DigitalC] - Season 2: Battle of sudden flame, Dragons, death of several main characters, Fingolfin vs Morgoth, lots of elf on human sex action, many elven defeats, ends with Morgoth apparently in control [/QUOTE] I don’t think there was a lot of Elf on Human sex, “historically”. > **[Half-elf](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-elven)** > > A half-elf is a mythological or fictional being, the offspring of an immortal elf and a mortal man. They are often depicted as very beautiful and endowed with magical powers; they may be presented as torn between the two worlds that they inhabit. Half-elves became known in modern times mainly through J. R. R. Tolkien's Middle-earth writings but have origins in Norse mythology. A half-elf appeared in Lord Dunsany's 1924 book The King of Elfland's Daughter. > In Middle-earth, half-elves are the c... I could be wrong. Maybe a man had to mate with the elf lass 6 times a day for a year to get her pregnant, but there weren’t a lot of couples. I get the impression that elves felt humans were barely civilized, high strung, impulsive, and way too short lived. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/17 "2011-06-20T20:16:02Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I don’t think there was a lot of Elf on Human sex, “historically”. > > [Half-elf - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-elven) > > I could be wrong. Maybe a man had to mate with the elf lass 6 times a day for a year to get her pregnant, but there weren’t a lot of couples. > > I get the impression that elves felt humans were barely civilized, high strung, impulsive, and way too short lived. Yeah, in the Sil there were only two: Beren/Luthen and Tuor/Idril. Then those two produced Elwing and Earendil, who produced Elrond and Elros, who produced (respectively) Arwen and the entire royal house of the Edain for the next several thousand years. Those (along with Arwen to Aragorn) were the only marriages of Eldar to Men. There may have been marriages of lesser elves (non-Eldar…i.e., Silvan or Sindarin elves) to men, though. Prince Imhrahil is thought to be descended from one. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/18 "2011-06-20T20:43:27Z")
There are also mentions of other human-elf pairings in _Lost Tales_, not all of them voluntary. IIRC, the cad who takes over Turin’s home has several elvish captives in his “harem”. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/19 "2011-06-20T20:53:21Z")
Ok, well, then I guess I cannot rebut **DigitalC** ’s “lot’s O’ sex” requirement, except to say that captive elf maiden porn may not be consistent with a family friendly rating. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/20 "2011-06-20T21:22:00Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > There are also mentions of other human-elf pairings in _Lost Tales_, not all of them voluntary. IIRC, the cad who takes over Turin’s home has several elvish captives in his “harem”. Regardless of whether I have my evil hat on or off, any character who has committed rape must also be shown being killed. That said, didn’t the Perfesser ultimately decide that elves cannot be ravished – that they would discorporate first? ETA: Why would that Easterling (I don’t recall his name either) have _elvish_ maids in his harem? Wouldn’t they have been mortal women? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040.md?page=2)