# Produce the SILMARILLION trilogy (or miniseries) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** middle-earth\ **Created:** [June 19, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040 "2011-06-19T16:07:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/21 "2011-06-20T21:31:42Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Regardless of whether I have my evil hat on or off, any character who has committed rape must also be shown being killed. > > That said, didn’t the Perfesser ultimately decide that elves cannot be ravished – that they would discorporate first? > > ETA: Why would that Easterling (I don’t recall his name either) have _elvish_ maids in his harem? Wouldn’t they have been mortal women? Reading _The Children of Hurin_, Morgoth’s Orc’s sack Nargothrond and carry away many elves as captives. Most will be used as slave labor in Angband. I suppose is possible that some easterling “champion” is given a slave/wife as some reward for some feat of mischief, but I don’t recall reading if some slave(s) were specifically identified as elves in the book. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/22 "2011-06-20T21:37:04Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Reading _The Children of Hurin_, Morgoth’s Orc’s sack Nargothrond and carry away many elves as captives. Most will be used as slave labor in Angband. I suppose is possible that some easterling “champion” is given a slave/wife as some reward for some feat of mischief, but I don’t recall reading if some slave(s) were specifically identified as elves in the book. It was _The Children of Hurin_ I specifically had in mind. I’m fairly sure that there were no Elves, maiden or otherwise, in Turin’s home when he returned to it, because it would surely have drawn his attention. Damn him for sacrificing Finduilas, anyway. :mad: I swear, I’m not sure Middle-earth wouldn’t have been better off if he’d died in Lailath’s place. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/23 "2011-06-20T21:46:23Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > It was _The Children of Hurin_ I specifically had in mind. I’m fairly sure that there were no Elves, maiden or otherwise, in Turin’s home when he returned to it, because it would surely have drawn his attention. > > Damn him for sacrificing Finduilas, anyway. :mad: I swear, I’m not sure Middle-earth wouldn’t have been better off if he’d died in Lailath’s place. The only people I recall identified is an old “servant”, and an Aunt, I think. Turin kills the easterling, sparks a minirevolt, speaks with the aunt, then leaves. What do you think happened to all the thralls in that lodge? They’ll probably be killed by some other easterling lord. (And Turin doesn’t even seem to consider this during his actions. He’s impulsive.) Everywhere he goes, he brings darkness and doom (eventually). That’s his curse. A real one, put on Hurin (his dad) by Morgoth himself. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/24 "2011-06-20T22:05:54Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > The only people I recall identified is an old “servant”, and an Aunt, I think. Kind of my point. An elf would have been so out of place that it would have been mentioned. Similarly, I’m sure that no Dwarves other than Gimli were within sight of the viewpoint characters at the Battle of Pelennor Fields. > [@](#): > > Turin kills the easterling, sparks a minirevolt, speaks with the aunt, then leaves. What do you think happened to all the thralls in that lodge? They’ll probably be killed by some other easterling lord. (And Turin doesn’t even seem to consider this during his actions. He’s impulsive.) > > Everywhere he goes, he brings darkness and doom (eventually). That’s his curse. A real one, put on Hurin (his dad) by Morgoth himself. 🙂 Well, yeah. That’s what _Turin_ means, pretty much. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/25 "2011-06-21T13:30:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Personally I always thought the Silmarilion would best be adapted as an operatic cycle, like the Ring Cycle. So instead of Bach, the continua buggy only has to go back far enough to get Led Zeppelin? (Maybe with Pete Townsend hired as individual songs into opera consultant) ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/26 "2011-06-21T14:48:22Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Well, yeah. That’s what _Turin_ means, pretty much. “A Túrin Turambar turun ambartanen: Master of doom by doom mastered!” One of my favorite lines from Sil. Would have to be said in the movie. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/27 "2011-06-21T15:23:41Z")
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] Well, yeah. That’s what _Turin_ means, pretty much. [/QUOTE] I probably read that part in the forward, but it didn’t “stick”. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/28 "2011-06-21T15:35:02Z")
If we’re doing “The Children of Hurin” I want Hurin’s trial before the Haladin included. Pettiness, hatred, fear, ambition, a Saxon/Viking like trial and a rampaging mob ending with the finding and death of Morwen. What’s not to like? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/29 "2011-06-21T16:50:39Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > If we’re doing “The Children of Hurin” I want Hurin’s trial before the Haladin included. Pettiness, hatred, fear, ambition, a Saxon/Viking like trial and a rampaging mob ending with the finding and death of Morwen. What’s not to like? I think you have to do _The Children of Hurin_ as a stand-alone movie. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/30 "2011-06-21T17:03:18Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > :eek: > > Not only are you not allowed in the set, you may not speak to anyone in the production staff. I’m not sure we’ll even let you buy a ticket. Eh, I don’t think your going to get a very good movie/tv show out of a work with so few persistant characters. Plus the Silmarillion is very much a “broad sweep of history book”, centuries pass where nothing happens. Your going to end up having to make stuff up to fill in the gaps anyways, you mind as well do it with some new characters, rather then trying to shoehorn in that are already established. Plus, I like the idea of making a work of historical fiction out of a fictional history. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/31 "2011-06-21T18:12:13Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I think you have to do _The Children of Hurin_ as a stand-alone movie. Look moast of the action takes place in the last 100 years of the 1st Age. We get the Battle of Sudden Flame and the Battle of Unnumbered tears. So what we really need to do is focus on 2 families - Huor and Hurin. Build the series around those two and their children Tuor (covers Gondolin) and Turin (covers Morgoth’s absolute victory). Heck the two even pass each other at the pools of Irvin. Series finale has half the world sunk below the ocean with a star in the west - prep for the sequel (2nd Age Numenor). ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/32 "2011-06-21T18:41:44Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Look moast of the action takes place in the last 100 years of the 1st Age. We get the Battle of Sudden Flame and the Battle of Unnumbered tears. So what we really need to do is focus on 2 families - Huor and Hurin. Build the series around those two and their children Tuor (covers Gondolin) and Turin (covers Morgoth’s absolute victory). Heck the two even pass each other at the pools of Irvin. > > Series finale has half the world sunk below the ocean with a star in the west - prep for the sequel (2nd Age Numenor). I wonder: are Tolkien geeks as nitpicky as Star Trek nerds? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/33 "2011-06-21T18:42:46Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I wonder: are Tolkien geeks as nitpicky as Star Trek nerds? You have NO idea… ETA: And I say this as a member of that august and occasionally petulant fraternity… ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/34 "2011-06-21T18:44:49Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > You have NO idea… 🙂 I wouldn’t want the producers or the cast becoming sick and tired of being part of the project because nitpickers suck all the oxygen (fun) out of the room (work). ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/35 "2011-06-21T18:49:27Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > So instead of Bach, the continua buggy only has to go back far enough to get Led Zeppelin? Led Zeppelin is not allowed in any continua buggy I am piloting. Any buggy I lend out will be boobytrapped to self-destruct as soon as anybody from the group boards. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/36 "2011-06-21T19:18:27Z")
Oh, they don’t need them to board. We can have them do all the work in their own time, and just carry back the recordings. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/37 "2011-06-21T19:23:05Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I wonder: are Tolkien geeks as nitpicky as Star Trek nerds? The group that argue of Balrog wings? Yep. Sure you could flesh it out (I’d still skip the pre-exile Valinor piece) and make the first half all dark and monstrous moving into an idyllic scene that suddenly gets engulfed in lava but the last 100 years have Fingolfin dead, Gondolin destroyed, Noldorian armies smashed, dragons, doomed humans and a flooded world to round it out. A 3 hour choral arrangement for the shaping of the world and you’ll kill the project. Unless of course, **Skald** can pony up the money for a global brainwashing machine to make people watch. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/38 "2011-06-21T19:27:34Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > The group that argue of Balrog wings? Yep. > > Sure you could flesh it out (I’d still skip the pre-exile Valinor piece) and make the first half all dark and monstrous moving into an idyllic scene that suddenly gets engulfed in lava but the last 100 years have Fingolfin dead, Gondolin destroyed, Noldorian armies smashed, dragons, doomed humans and a flooded world to round it out. > > A 3 hour choral arrangement for the shaping of the world and you’ll kill the project. Unless of course, **Skald** can pony up the money for a global brainwashing machine to make people watch. That is not cost-effective. Why wouldn’t I just have everyone give me a third of whatever wealth they have? (A moment’s thought will make it clear why I’d not want every single person to give me every single penny they own.) ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/39 "2011-06-21T19:38:37Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Out of curiosity: do you guys want a 3D movie? Because I don’t, but I could be persuaded I’m wrong. I think you need to go all Wizard of Oz on it. Use 3D sparingly just to set certain scenes as being more majestic than Middle Earth. Have all the scenes of Ainulindalë and Valaquenta shot in an ethereal 3D with mystical voice over work. Not sure whose voice to use here, but the work done at the beginning of the Fellowship of the Ring by Cate Blanchett is a good benchmark. I would think it would have to be a non-character but it would be a key bit of exposition to let viewers know just what this story was going to be like. All the scenes in Aman/Valinor should be 3D, Númenor most likely should be as well. Everything else in Middle Earth should be shot in 2D. I think the casting for the high elves like Feanor and Fingolfin is really important, these guys have to be way more menacing and bad ass than Elrond and Legolas from the LotR trilogy. I’m thinking Alexander Skarsgård from True Blood could be butched up to a point where he could play one of the roles, I’m especially thinking these cats need to be tall, muscular and fair, much moreso than the twinks in the first movies. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040/40 "2011-06-21T19:42:35Z")
I’m torn about whether to hand the project over to Rankin & Bass or Ralph Bakshi. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/produce-the-silmarillion-trilogy-or-miniseries/586040.md?page=3)