# Product X costs three times less than Product Y. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 19, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/product-x-costs-three-times-less-than-product-y/669239 "2013-09-19T16:13:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/product-x-costs-three-times-less-than-product-y/669239/21 "2013-09-20T03:55:53Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Just as bad is “you get two times more stuff”. Do you get triple the amount or double? What’s bad about that? It’s clear as crystal. 2X plus 1X. Triple. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/product-x-costs-three-times-less-than-product-y/669239/22 "2013-09-20T04:15:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It’s only a problem if it’s ambiguous. I can’t think of any interpretation other than “one third the price”, so there’s no ambiguity. Well, “three times less” could also mean a) 1/4 the price b) Item A is at 10% discount, Item B is at 30% discount Not the most obvious or intuitive but also not out of the realms of plausibility ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/product-x-costs-three-times-less-than-product-y/669239/23 "2013-09-20T04:18:08Z")
> [@For You](#): > > This is not nearly as infuriating as claims to the effect that “_our ice cream is 97% Fat Free!_” No, sorry, the fat part is not divisible from your ice cream, it is three percent fat. Say that or STFU. You got this wrong!! If I get a bowl of 100 spoons of ice-cream, 97 of those spoons won’t have fat. So if I choose to eat the “correct” 97 spoons, and feed the other three to my wife, I haven’t consumed any fat. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/product-x-costs-three-times-less-than-product-y/669239/24 "2013-09-20T04:18:32Z")
You guys are adorable. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/product-x-costs-three-times-less-than-product-y/669239/25 "2013-09-20T04:46:22Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I’ll withdraw the cavil, then. However, since it is based on mathematical gibberish, I stick to my decree that it is syntactical gibberish. Grammatically valid syntactical gibberish. (again: Grrr. :mad:) The word you are looking for is “[semantically](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/semantically).” There is nothing wrong with the [syntax](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/syntax) of the sentence. ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/product-x-costs-three-times-less-than-product-y/669239/26 "2013-09-20T05:12:24Z")
If the product costs X, 3 times is 3X. 3 times less is X - 3X = -2X ? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/product-x-costs-three-times-less-than-product-y/669239/27 "2013-09-20T05:34:55Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > What’s bad about that? It’s clear as crystal. 2X plus 1X. Triple. Yes, among people who treat language as a completely logical construct. Which it is not. I hate these phrasings for that reason, because you don’t know for certain WTF anyone is trying to convey. Don’t try doing math on language. People don’t treat language as math. Or, that is, some people do, and others don’t. Hence the confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/product-x-costs-three-times-less-than-product-y/669239/28 "2013-09-20T05:58:36Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > What’s bad about that? It’s clear as crystal. 2X plus 1X. Triple. What’s bad is that a lot of people, even smart ones like Chronos, get it wrong. And unlike “3 times less”, it’s totally ambiguous. No one should use that construct any more. I haven’t seen the same problem with “X times as much”. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/product-x-costs-three-times-less-than-product-y/669239/29 "2013-09-20T06:10:14Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > What’s bad is that a lot of people, even smart ones like Chronos, get it wrong. And unlike “3 times less”, it’s totally ambiguous. No one should use that construct any more. I haven’t seen the same problem with “X times as much”. It’s still somewhat ambiguous, I’d argue. To me, “twice as much” clearly means 2X, but I can see somebody making an argument for 2X+X or 3X. It’s tricky. Now, “two times MORE” should mean 2X + X but, still, language ain’t math, so it can mean different things to different people. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/product-x-costs-three-times-less-than-product-y/669239/30 "2013-09-20T06:20:03Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Now, “two times MORE” should mean 2X + X but, still, language ain’t math, so it can mean different things to different people. For some reason, though, there doesn’t seem to be confusion if you say “10% more”. Of course that means 110% total. I was always taught that “as much” and “more” had clear and distinct interpretations, but obviously not everyone makes the same distinction. ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/product-x-costs-three-times-less-than-product-y/669239/31 "2013-09-20T06:31:05Z")
Actually, I asked this before - [Is "X times as much" the same as "X times more"? - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=692382) and we couldn’t get consensus the last time either. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/product-x-costs-three-times-less-than-product-y/669239/32 "2013-09-20T12:43:48Z")
If X/3 is “three times less” and X/2 is “two times less”, can I characterize X/1 as “one times less”? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/product-x-costs-three-times-less-than-product-y/669239/33 "2013-09-20T14:56:18Z")
Two times more is x2. 200% more is x3. Why? I don’t know, but that’s how those phrasings are always used. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/product-x-costs-three-times-less-than-product-y/669239/34 "2013-09-20T16:27:05Z")
Huh? Look, if two times more is x2, that implies that one times more is x1. So one times more means _the very same amount_. I hope you can see how preposterous that is. Two times = 200% Ergo, two times _more_ = 200% _more_. Both of them mean x3. That may be how those phrasings are used, but only by people who are _wrong._ ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/product-x-costs-three-times-less-than-product-y/669239/35 "2013-09-20T16:38:46Z")
Norma Loquendi laughs at your futile attempts to control her. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/product-x-costs-three-times-less-than-product-y/669239/36 "2013-09-20T18:23:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Look, if two times more is x2, that implies that one times more is x1. So one times more means the very same amount. I hope you can see how preposterous that is. Which neatly explains why nobody ever uses the phrase “one times more”. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/product-x-costs-three-times-less-than-product-y/669239/37 "2013-09-21T00:14:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Which neatly explains why nobody ever uses the phrase “one times more”. Actually, nobody uses it because it’s stilted and awkward. There is nothing arithmetically incoherent about it. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/product-x-costs-three-times-less-than-product-y/669239/38 "2013-09-21T00:59:13Z")
Idioms are irrational but not stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/product-x-costs-three-times-less-than-product-y/669239/39 "2013-09-21T00:59:51Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Actually, nobody uses it because it’s stilted and awkward. There is nothing arithmetically incoherent about it. Yeah. So what about “0.5 times more”? The usage is a bit rare, but not [unheard of](http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=BBBBBDdiuNpbvGc1yHcGyHcI5ed95NdireCB5eCB5BBBBBB--) (pg 11–sorry for the pdf, but it’s the first unambiguous use I could find). It refers to 150% in that document. I also wonder what people’s stance on “again as much” is. As in “half again as much” or “twice again as much”. I consider these to be 150% and 300% respectively. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/product-x-costs-three-times-less-than-product-y/669239/40 "2013-09-21T16:44:48Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Well, “three times less” could also mean > a) 1/4 the price > b) Item A is at 10% discount, Item B is at 30% discount > > Not the most obvious or intuitive but also not out of the realms of plausibility Actually, b) is the only one that can have meaning. And even then, its having meaning relies on the non-discounted value being specified. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/product-x-costs-three-times-less-than-product-y/669239.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/product-x-costs-three-times-less-than-product-y/669239.md?page=3)