# Production cars with no known surviving examples **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 9, 2020, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/production-cars-with-no-known-surviving-examples/855308 "2020-06-09T18:12:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/production-cars-with-no-known-surviving-examples/855308/61 "2020-06-10T21:11:57Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Honda elements are rare. I rode in one and it was unusual. Floor was vinyl for easy cleaning and all seats folded up. Was made for outdoors people but did not catch on. Instead many older people bought them. Made until 2010. BTW, at one point there was a belief, spread in part by the guys on Car Talk, that you could hose out the interior of one of those. I think someone called or wrote in to explain that no, you can’t and that doing so will cause lots of damage to electronics. ---
**Author:** ![Philliam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/philliam/32/3011_2.png) [@Philliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philliam)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/production-cars-with-no-known-surviving-examples/855308/62 "2020-06-10T21:43:30Z")
OMG! Must alert Hagerty stat! My sister has a Renault Alliance Convertible ('86?) that she inherited from my not mechanically-oriented Dad who had a knack for acquiring inappropriate or oddball cars: MG Midget, Datsun B-210 ‘Honeybee Edition’, Dodge Colt, Buick Somerset Regal and aforesaid Renault. Totally off topic, but a complete contrast - when I bought a Toyota SR 5 pickup in the early '80s, I sold my '68 Volvo 142 sedan to a neighbor. When I was in Oregon earlier this year, what did I see tooling up I-5 at 70 mph but my old 142 (unmistakable because of some personal modifications). Not bad for a car I sold 35 years ago. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/production-cars-with-no-known-surviving-examples/855308/63 "2020-06-10T23:14:04Z")
> [@Philliam](#): > > You must live outside the Pacific Northwest. Tons of them up here - Honda dealer always asks if we might want to sell it. Seems they get lots of requests for used ones. Oh, these things are definitely regional. I live in SE Michigan, if you never left this bubble you’d think GM, Ford, and Chrysler (FCA) had 75% of the market. ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/production-cars-with-no-known-surviving-examples/855308/64 "2020-06-11T00:28:34Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > that was “Peak Camry,” for what it’s worth. I think a very good argument could be made that the '89-'90 Camry was the best car in the world at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/production-cars-with-no-known-surviving-examples/855308/65 "2020-06-11T00:44:40Z")
Were there any Pintos, that did not get the self-destruct button on their rear bumpers pushed? ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/production-cars-with-no-known-surviving-examples/855308/66 "2020-06-11T10:19:31Z")
I recently visited the National Corvette Museum in Bowling Green, KY. According to our guide there are no 1983 Corvettes remaining in the wild. They have the only remaining copy, since GM stopped production of '83s, and introduced the '84s early. Of the 44 that were originally built, the museum has the [only surviving copy](https://www.corvettemuseum.org/learn/about-corvette/corvette-specs/1983-corvette-specs/) in the world. And this was a pilot line car, never meant for sale. I think this is very close to the OPs request for “Production cars with no known surviving examples”. Note: Even if you aren’t a “car-guy”, that museum is fascinating. Well worth the time if you’re nearby. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/production-cars-with-no-known-surviving-examples/855308/67 "2020-06-11T11:43:15Z")
Plenty of NC Hondas but can’t recall last time I saw an Element. I work in tech and the parking lot is probably 80% Asian makes , the main area for US makes is pickups. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/production-cars-with-no-known-surviving-examples/855308/68 "2020-06-11T12:21:01Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Were there any Pintos, that did not get the self-destruct button on their rear bumpers pushed? The vast, vast majority of Pintos did not have that happen. Almost 3.5 million Pintos and Bobcats were sold over their 9 year lifetime. Simple fact is that most of them were sent off to the scrap heap once they got too rusty and/or broken down. And yes, there are preserved/restored Pintos on the road today. [https://pintostampede.com/](https://pintostampede.com/) ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/production-cars-with-no-known-surviving-examples/855308/69 "2020-06-11T12:42:50Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Plenty of NC Hondas but can’t recall last time I saw an Element. I work in tech and the parking lot is probably 80% Asian makes , the main area for US makes is pickups. There’s more than one in our work parking lot every day. They’re still pretty common around here (Boston). ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/production-cars-with-no-known-surviving-examples/855308/70 "2020-06-11T13:05:34Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Yep. One of my very first cars was a ‘68 Valiant. Didn’t have power steering or power brakes which made city driving a chore. But that engine was a champ!! My parents had a 1960 model with I believe the same engine. My Ma called it “the truck” because of how rugged it was for it’s size. > > What surprises me is how I almost never see Dodge/Plymouth Neons anymore. It wasn’t that long ago they stopped making them and they used to be everywhere, like freaking flies. > > One of the first cars I bought brand new was an ‘82 Chevy Citation with the 6 cylinder engine. Ugly as shit but it was very roomy inside.Great in the snow. I put 188K trouble free miles (other than expected maintenance, brakes, etc) when the timing chain went and screwed up the engine. I’m sorry some people did not have the great experience with theirs like I did mine. My second car was an 82 Pontiac Phoenix, same exact car, different badge and grill. 450,000 miles, one oil pan(ruined by me) one timing chain(changed by me, thus the new oil pan) and one brake master cylinder assembly later, I finally got rid of it. Awesome cool car, yeah not really. Great car? Yup. A truly crappy car was the 83 Pontiac 6000xl that was my first car.I don’t ever see any of those any more, haven’t for a very long time ---
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/production-cars-with-no-known-surviving-examples/855308/71 "2020-06-11T13:59:28Z")
In the 1966 model year Pontiac sold 96,000 GTOs. Included in the 96,000 were 174 (some say 175) “Ram Air” models. I owned one. These had several performance differences as compared to the standard models. Much to the disappointment of GTO enthusiasts, there are no known to exist. They are also referred to “XS Code” models referring to the first two digits of the VIN. Oldsmobile also made similar models of its 442 model in 1966 called W30. I believe a total of 54 were sold. I believe 8 remain. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/production-cars-with-no-known-surviving-examples/855308/72 "2020-06-12T11:02:55Z")
> [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > In the 1966 model year Pontiac sold 96,000 GTOs. Included in the 96,000 were 174 (some say 175) “Ram Air” models. I owned one. These had several performance differences as compared to the standard models. Much to the disappointment of GTO enthusiasts, there are no known to exist. They are also referred to “XS Code” models referring to the first two digits of the VIN. Oldsmobile also made similar models of its 442 model in 1966 called W30. I believe a total of 54 were sold. I believe 8 remain. I have a question for you. In the 70s, I had a 69 Camaro RS (not SS). It had an unusual front end, with an integrated (soft rubber/ABS) bumper. Not a chrome one that was bolted on like the others. I remember being told that was a rare version, but don’t know how to confirm this. Like [this one](https://classiccars.com/listings/view/905906/1969-chevrolet-camaro-rs-ss-for-sale-in-laplace-louisiana-70068) only an RS. Do you know where I could look up information on details like that? Just curious about it. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/production-cars-with-no-known-surviving-examples/855308/73 "2020-06-12T12:22:00Z")
> [@pullin](#): > > I have a question for you. In the 70s, I had a 69 Camaro RS (not SS). It had an unusual front end, with an integrated (soft rubber/ABS) bumper. Not a chrome one that was bolted on like the others. I remember being told that was a rare version, but don’t know how to confirm this. Like [this one](https://classiccars.com/listings/view/905906/1969-chevrolet-camaro-rs-ss-for-sale-in-laplace-louisiana-70068) only an RS. > > Do you know where I could look up information on details like that? Just curious about it. I’m not a big Camaro guy, so I don’t know if this is the same thing, but might be of interest to you. And GM back in the day would release an innovation on one line and then slowly roll out to others, so it could be the same. Behold the Endura Bumper! Back when Better Living Through Chemistry was said without irony > **[The Revolutionary Pontiac GTO Endura Bumper | TV Commercials](https://wowmusclecars.com/pontiac-gto-endura-bumper-tv-c/)** > > In this commercial a man smashes the Pontiac GTO Endura Bumper with a crowbar. He whacks the sides, and the center of the bumper.Wow! Not a dent or a scratch. Basically a hard foam bumper that will deform and return to shape. Someone in my family has a 68 GTO with the Endura Bumper, and other than the fact that the color never looked quite right since day one (he’s the original owner) it’s pretty impressive. ---
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/production-cars-with-no-known-surviving-examples/855308/74 "2020-06-12T13:18:39Z")
You’re right about the color. The same paint applied to different materials will rarely look the same. W/regard to the Camaro question above, I cannot help. There has to be a national Camaro club, as well as lots of local clubs. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/production-cars-with-no-known-surviving-examples/855308/75 "2020-06-12T16:16:28Z")
my friend had a 66 GTO convertible in the late 70s and it was a rare car even then. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/production-cars-with-no-known-surviving-examples/855308/76 "2020-06-13T10:58:32Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > There’s more than one in our work parking lot every day. They’re still pretty common around here (Boston). Yep, I see them all the time here in KY. They’re something of a cult car, like the Cube and Scion xB. I’ve seen people asking $10k for some of the last Elements, with all the body panels painted. I’ve got pictures I took of the concept version at the Chicago Auto Show way back. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/production-cars-with-no-known-surviving-examples/855308/77 "2020-06-13T11:11:21Z")
> [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > You’re right about the color. The same paint applied to different materials will rarely look the same. W/regard to the Camaro question above, I cannot help. There has to be a national Camaro club, as well as lots of local clubs. When I repainted mine, I had the plastic bumper portion changed to black instead of matching the body paint. It looked pretty good (still trying to find a picture). ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/production-cars-with-no-known-surviving-examples/855308/78 "2020-06-13T15:48:37Z")
> [@P-man](#): > > My brother had one with a steel sleeved engine rather than the more common aluminum block. He shocked a couple of guys at the junkyard when he picked up the original aluminum block with one hand and put it on his shoulder (it weighed 50 pounds of so). At that time, though, he also picked up the block of a Chevelle 442 engine and carried it from one end of.The workshop to another. I drove a Vega race car at my local short track for a couple years. Blew up 11 of the engines in the process including 5 steel sleeved blocks. I could change the engine in that car in about 30 minutes by myself. If you don’t mind me asking, what is a Chevelle 442? The Chevelle was built by Chevrolet, Oldsmobile built the 442. The engines used in the 442, first a 400 cubic inch engine then a 455, were known for being extremely heavy compared to the engines used in the similar models by Chevy, Pontiac and Buick. A lot of folks back in the day said they made better boat anchors than engines. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/production-cars-with-no-known-surviving-examples/855308/79 "2020-06-13T16:24:16Z")
> [@racer72](#): > > I drove a Vega race car at my local short track for a couple years. Blew up 11 of the engines in the process including 5 steel sleeved blocks. I could change the engine in that car in about 30 minutes by myself. If you don’t mind me asking, what is a Chevelle 442? The Chevelle was built by Chevrolet, Oldsmobile built the 442. The engines used in the 442, first a 400 cubic inch engine then a 455, were known for being extremely heavy compared to the engines used in the similar models by Chevy, Pontiac and Buick. A lot of folks back in the day said they made better boat anchors than engines. i just got the Chevy and Olds mixed up. I’m not a car person; the block belonged to a friend of mine and he didn’t have room to store it. ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/production-cars-with-no-known-surviving-examples/855308/80 "2020-06-13T19:24:59Z")
There’s a DD 83 Mercury Bobcat that sits in a driveway a few blocks from me so they’re not all dead… One car I seldom see now is the Hyundai Pony. Probably for good reason they were horrible little rust buckets. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/production-cars-with-no-known-surviving-examples/855308.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/production-cars-with-no-known-surviving-examples/855308.md?page=5)