# Professional opponents of raising the minimum wage **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 21, 2016, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949 "2016-06-21T09:28:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/61 "2016-06-21T19:49:27Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > China, India, and 20 million illegal immigrants say “hi.” And America will be just like them if your idea is that we need to compete with them on low wages. They’re not the model. We are. Europe is. They’re striving to be more like us. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/62 "2016-06-21T19:50:57Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I’d say $472.22/month. Sounds feasible-it’s not like I would need a _new_ cardboard box to sleep in every month. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/63 "2016-06-21T19:52:10Z")
Nice rant, but idiots who do not know how to sweep a floor or stock cups at a fast food place don’t deserve $15 an hour. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/64 "2016-06-21T19:53:06Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > And America will be just like them if your idea is that we need to compete with them on low wages. > > They’re not the model. We are. Europe is. They’re striving to be more like us. In a global economy we are competing with them. That’s why we have 10s of millions of Americans who can’t find jobs or who have given up looking. But that’s great because an illiterate cashier at McDonalds can make $12/hr. Until self serve kiosks replace her. I can’t wait for the kiosks because at least they will be quick and accurate. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/65 "2016-06-21T19:53:17Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Nice rant, but idiots who do not know how to sweep a floor or stock cups at a fast food place don’t deserve $15 an hour. How about those who do know how to do such things? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/66 "2016-06-21T19:54:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Sounds feasible-it’s not like I would need a _new_ cardboard box to sleep in every month. So you’d be a bum and not have any other form of income? You wouldn’t have a job or investments? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/67 "2016-06-21T19:54:10Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Nice rant, but idiots who do not know how to sweep a floor or stock cups at a fast food place don’t deserve $15 an hour. What _do_ fast food workers deserve? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/68 "2016-06-21T19:54:55Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > How about those who do know how to do such things? Nope. But they should get paid more than the ones who DON’T know how to do such things. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/69 "2016-06-21T19:56:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What _do_ fast food workers deserve? Whatever their skills allow them to negotiate with the hiring person, same as any other job. Having strong sweeping skills and ability to hear a “fries are done” alarm probably doesn’t translate into much of an hourly wage. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/70 "2016-06-21T19:59:28Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Whatever their skills allow them to negotiate with the hiring person, same as any other job. Having strong sweeping skills and ability to hear a “fries are done” alarm probably doesn’t translate into much of an hourly wage. The fallacy is in claiming there is ever any negotiation. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/71 "2016-06-21T20:02:52Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > In a global economy we are competing with them. That’s why we have 10s of millions of Americans who can’t find jobs or who have given up looking. But that’s great because an illiterate cashier at McDonalds can make $12/hr. Until self serve kiosks replace her. I can’t wait for the kiosks because at least they will be quick and accurate. America will be a poverty stricken third world country and you’ll be unemployed and wishing you could ‘just get a job at McDonalds’ like my father says anytime he hears about someone being unemployed. People working at these places are not competing with workers from China. They’re not coming to take their jobs. And illegal aliens taking jobs is a moral and legal issue with employers, not with American workers. If we stopped deporting any of them and instead started prosecuting business managers for hiring them and put those managers in jail, you damn betcha hiring of illegal aliens would screech to a halt. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/72 "2016-06-21T20:03:07Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > The fallacy is in claiming there is ever any negotiation. The fallacy is in claiming there is NOT negotiation. I know people who negotiated a higher wage at a fast food place. People negotiate for their wages all the time, do you really doubt that? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/73 "2016-06-21T20:05:51Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > So you’d be a bum and not have any other form of income? You wouldn’t have a job or investments? When you get paid bupkis you invest in the week’s groceries, the rent, the insurance, the utilities etc., and you fall farther and farther behind every month. Will this $472/month be taxable? Will it count as income if people apply for benefits, thereby cutting off a great many of them? Will it be used as an excuse for employers to cut wages and/or benefits?(this last one I can really see happening, btw.) ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/74 "2016-06-21T20:07:08Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > America will be a poverty stricken third world country and you’ll be unemployed and wishing you could ‘just get a job at McDonalds’ like my father says anytime he hears about someone being unemployed. > > People working at these places are not competing with workers from China. They’re not coming to take their jobs. > > And illegal aliens taking jobs is a moral and legal issue with employers, not with American workers. If we stopped deporting any of them and instead started prosecuting business managers for hiring them and put those managers in jail, you damn betcha hiring of illegal aliens would screech to a halt. Container ships and cheap oil beg to differ. Here’s some advice. If you took some of this passion and energy and applied it to not being poor, you too could afford a nice steak dinner on occasion. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/75 "2016-06-21T20:10:11Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > The fallacy is in claiming there is NOT negotiation. I know people who negotiated a higher wage at a fast food place. People negotiate for their wages all the time, do you really doubt that? If it doesn’t take much talent to work there, why would there be any negotiations? Why wouldn’t the scenario be “You don’t like what the company mandates as your pay? Well, I’ve got a drawer full of applications. Buh bye.”? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/76 "2016-06-21T20:16:08Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Container ships and cheap oil beg to differ. > > Here’s some advice. If you took some of this passion and energy and applied it to not being poor, you too could afford a nice steak dinner on occasion. And if My Beloved had taken some of that passion and energy fighting cancer and applied all those medical costs to some financial investments, I could have paid for a modest funeral and still had enough leftover for a 401k! I’m so fucking glad for you that life never had the type of bank-account destroying experiences that happen in real life. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/77 "2016-06-21T20:17:23Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Container ships and cheap oil beg to differ. > > Here’s some advice. If you took some of this passion and energy and applied it to not being poor, you too could afford a nice steak dinner on occasion. I’m not poor. I work IT. However, I did declare bankruptcy 7 years ago in the middle of a dark period where I did work shit paying jobs. I have a serious issue with the right wing “fuck the poor, let them die on the streets” attitude that seems to blame them for every ill that befalls them and brushes off any idea that anyone else can or should do anything about it, usually with the much repeated “they don’t deserve it” that we see in this thread. I would hope to god that none of you people saying this sort of thing also call yourselves “Christians”, because you’re very clearly NOT. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/78 "2016-06-21T20:18:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If it doesn’t take much talent to work there, why would there be any negotiations? Why wouldn’t the scenario be “You don’t like what the company mandates as your pay? Well, I’ve got a drawer full of applications. Buh bye.”? Maybe where you live is different, but most places around here that pay close to minimum wage cannot keep any employees because they are so unreliable. There is not a drawer full of applications of people waiting to find a job. So, no, that is not ALWAYS the scenario. Your thoughts of people getting on their hands and knees thanking the cold business owner for allowing them to work for minimum wage aren’t exactly true everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/79 "2016-06-21T20:28:42Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Maybe where you live is different, but most places around here that pay close to minimum wage cannot keep any employees because they are so unreliable. From being there, in slightly above minimum wage jobs… “You pay me shit, you treat me like shit, so I have zero loyalty to you” That’s just the way it is. My boss back in 1994 asked where my loyalty to my employer was. I was a fairly high level programmer and I retorted “Where is my employer’s loyalty to me?” He sat there stunned for a second and then said “good point” and never asked me stupid assed “do this to prove your loyalty to the company” shit again. When I worked the call center, the #1 reason people were fired, by far, was for attendance. But of course, zero paid time off, zero paid sick time, unpaid time off denied on a regular basis and shitty treatment all adds up to a work force that really doesn’t give a fuck if you fire them or they quit, because you’re not a ‘real job’ that anyone would be proud of having. Especially when you see people being fired for being out sick, or for having the gall to attend their sister’s wedding anyway after they refused to give them the day off for it. (Saw that one up close) Kinda disingenuous for employers to pay shit wages, jerk people’s schedules around, publicly talk about how their employees aren’t worth a living wage and then bitch and moan about how hard it is to get good people. Good people don’t want to work for companies like that and some otherwise good people stop being good for employers who don’t respond in kind. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/80 "2016-06-21T20:33:34Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > “Do not let any calamity-howling executive with an income of $1,000 a day, who has been turning his employees over to the Government relief rolls in order to preserve his company’s undistributed reserves, tell you – using his stockholders’ money to pay the postage for his personal opinions — tell you that a wage of $11.00 a week is going to have a disastrous effect on all American industry.” > > (FDR, 1938, Fireside Chat, the night before signing the Fair Labor Standards Act that instituted the federal minimum wage) $1,000 a day or approximately $360K a year? Who made that much in 1938 dollars? Less than 1% of 1%, I’d imagine. Not your everyday executive. The office manager, the factory manager, the sales manager, and the finance manager were all executives, and didn’t make anywhere near that. St. FDR’s statement was ridiculous. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949.md?page=5)