# Professional opponents of raising the minimum wage **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 21, 2016, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949 "2016-06-21T09:28:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/101 "2016-06-21T21:05:30Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I knew you wouldn’t actually answer my questions because your answers would reveal the real purpose behind the proposal. Basic income is not meant to be just a handout for people to be bums is it? Is that the purpose of welfare and minimum wage? Allow people to do nothing and all wants are provided for? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/102 "2016-06-21T21:07:11Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Basic income is not meant to be just a handout for people to be bums is it? Is that the purpose of welfare and minimum wage? Allow people to do nothing and all wants are provided for? More bullshit handwaving. I asked some questions that you seem to be afraid to answer. Why is that? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/103 "2016-06-21T21:08:21Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > You’re making the false assumption that Money = Intelligence. > > Like most of your base assumptions, they’re based on bullshit. My wife and I have a family income of just under $300k. No one gave that to us. We borrowed money, went to college for _ **useful** _ degrees. Worked hard. Saved, sacrificed, lived a responsible life, etc. and now we are being rewarded for it. Sorry you chose, with your superior intellect, to live differently. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/104 "2016-06-21T21:10:00Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > What city and state do they live in? That shining example of Randian righteousness, Topeka Kansas. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/105 "2016-06-21T21:11:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > More bullshit handwaving. I asked some questions that you seem to be afraid to answer. Why is that? Your questions were irrelevant. But yes it would be income and taxed. Other programs that are currently means tested would either be eliminated or continue to be means tested. Social security and Medicare would be left unchanged for those who paid into it. With regards to price for labor and benefits who knows? That’s for the market to decide. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/106 "2016-06-21T21:11:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Hey, fuckwad-_you_ wanted to know why the homeless aren’t getting those minimum wage jobs, and I told you. _The jobs aren’t theirs to be had._ Yay! Name calling! Classy! ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/107 "2016-06-21T21:11:27Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > My wife and I have a family income of just under $300k. No one gave that to us. We borrowed money, went to college for _ **useful** _ degrees. Worked hard. Saved, sacrificed, lived a responsible life, etc. and now we are being rewarded for it. Sorry you chose, with your superior intellect, to live differently. I make high 5 figures and live a quite comfortable life. Sorry your money has made you heartless. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/108 "2016-06-21T21:14:46Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I make high 5 figures and live a quite comfortable life. Sorry your money has made you heartless. Heartless is advocating stupid and counterproductive economic policy such as minimum wage while discounting what could potentially do a much better job.[Minimum Wages vs. Universal Basic Income | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-santens/minimum-wages-vs-universal-basic-income_b_7957850.html) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/109 "2016-06-21T21:15:02Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Yay! Name calling! Classy! Ask an extremely stupid question in the Pit(“Why can’t homeless people without transportation get jobs that require them to have homes and jobs?”), and expect no less. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/110 "2016-06-21T21:16:13Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > That shining example of Randian righteousness, Topeka Kansas. Cant do a detailed analysis right now but some easy things: why aren’t each of them working two jobs? Why aren’t any of them going to night school? Do they have budgets and stick to them? Can the single guy find roommates and move to a cheaper place? Are they looking for better work? How does the couple get a raise at work? Are they working towards that? Are they all constantly online bitching on a message board about how bad they have it? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/111 "2016-06-21T21:17:15Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Heartless is advocating stupid and counterproductive economic policy such as minimum wage while discounting what could potentially do a much better job.[Minimum Wages vs. Universal Basic Income | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-santens/minimum-wages-vs-universal-basic-income_b_7957850.html) You keep repeating that claim while being consistently unable to actually prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/112 "2016-06-21T21:18:09Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Yeah, the intellectually dishonest that support minimum wage will always point at every factor but minimum wage as the culprit. It’s the same tactic Islamic terrorist apologists practice. Is this a part of your new “Connect All The Dots To All The Dots” debate strategy? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/113 "2016-06-21T21:18:13Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > You need reliable transportation to hold a job? No way! Seems weird that people would need a way to get to their job :rolleyes: I know, right? Employees can’t be expected to show up on time, every day. That’s asking too much. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/114 "2016-06-21T21:18:34Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > You keep repeating that claim while being consistently unable to actually prove it. Use that superior intellect and read some of the arguments for basic income vs minimum wage. It shouldn’t be hard. My guess is that the so-called morons and idiots might have a few more IQ points. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/115 "2016-06-21T21:20:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Ask an extremely stupid question in the Pit(“Why can’t homeless people without transportation get jobs that require them to have homes and jobs?”), and expect no less. I asked no such thing. Maybe your zest to blame all and others for your own unfortunate conditions has made you incapable of not being a fucktarded keyboard crying baby? Hey, calling names IS fun! ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/116 "2016-06-21T21:24:25Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Use that superior intellect and read some of the arguments for basic income vs minimum wage. It shouldn’t be hard. My guess is that the so-called morons and idiots might have a few more IQ points. Which is more likely to be passed, and therefore the one to be worked on? I’m not going to waste time on Basic Income under the present political climate. Pretty delusional to say it’s better and fight rabidly against minimum wage when there’s zero chance that Basic Income will become the law of the land anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/117 "2016-06-21T21:24:31Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Large companies that pay minimum wage are subsidizing their labor costs with government programs. Why shouldn’t the government get a say? Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/118 "2016-06-21T21:27:57Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Well no. We should not be allowing businesses to pay wages that require the rest of us to subsidize those people with tax credits, food and other basic support. THIS IS CORPORATE WELFARE disguised and slandered as individual welfare and individual weakness. > > The labor market is not a free market. People are never as free to negotiate their wages or move to better jobs as people with your philosophy like to presume. This isn’t just an error or an incorrect assumption on your part, it is either a complete disconnect from reality, or a blatant lie. Your response is either a total disconnect from reality or a blatant lie. Given that people ARE free to negotiate wages or change jobs, I’ll vote for disconnect. Which is it? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/119 "2016-06-21T21:29:45Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Which is more likely to be passed, and therefore the one to be worked on? > > I’m not going to waste time on Basic Income under the present political climate. Pretty delusional to say it’s better and fight rabidly against minimum wage when there’s zero chance that Basic Income will become the law of the land anytime soon. Well keep fighting for counterproductive policy then. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![TipTapTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/34f0e0/32.png) [@TipTapTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TipTapTwo)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949/120 "2016-06-21T21:30:23Z")
I really enjoyed reading your thoughtful and well written post Askthepizzaguy. I refuse to believe that you are still some lowly pizza guy, or otherwise trapped in mediocrity; because your way of presenting such well reasoned arguments interwoven with relevant research, should make you an engaging professor to learn from. Or at least a high level HR or upper manager that actually cares for his workers and can compassionately motivate others to do their best. That said, from your own cite of the history of minimum wage, we see such variety in how well off a nation and its people are vis-a-vis how those nations have dealt with the minimum wage problem throughout history. From Germany, the industrial powerhouse, not even having a minimum wage until 2015 (have German unions really been so strong and fair throughout their history that the people never needed a minimum wage? What changed in 2015?); to other well off peoples/nations also not having a min-wage, such as: Hong Kong, Singapore, and Denmark. (With no minimum floor set by their governments, how come the businesses in these nations have not exploited their workers to the degree that we feel we will be if our min-wage lags behind or is removed?) To Brazil which, unlike most other nations with a min-wage, has it adjusted automatically every year by a federal law which takes into account GDP fluctuations and inflation. Most other Min-wage nations only have it raised whenever their leaders feel like voting or passing laws specifically raising the minimum wage. Shouldn’t such pegging to GDP/inflation raise the people’s wages in a much truer fashion in relation to their productivity and worth to the global economy? > **[Minimum Wage in Brazil](https://thebrazilbusiness.com/article/minimum-wage-in-brazil)** > > The minimum wage is of extreme importance in Brazil, as over 48 million people have their wage calculated on the value of the minimum wage. In this... To New Zealand already having a $15 minimum wage. Will this be enough, along with other incentives, to reverse its brain drain? Does a next door nation with a higher minimum wage of just $2 more (Australia’s min-wage is $17) really poach that much extra talent? Or are there other factors at play? [http://employment.govt.nz/er/pay/minimumwage/](http://employment.govt.nz/er/pay/minimumwage/) [https://www.fairwork.gov.au/how-we-will-help/templates-and-guides/fact-sheets/minimum-workplace-entitlements/minimum-wages](https://www.fairwork.gov.au/how-we-will-help/templates-and-guides/fact-sheets/minimum-workplace-entitlements/minimum-wages) To the guaranteed basic income of Saudi Arabia (at least for the 19 million Saudis, they cost their nation $120 billion US dollars per year) and, to a much lesser extent, Alaska and its $1884 yearly check per person. Are Saudis, with their generous guaranteed shares of the oil wealth and their pay from their jobs, living rich lives? Or did their local markets take advantage of their automatic wealth and just up the prices on everything to siphon it all back into the pockets of their “captains of industry?” Does trying to live in Saudi Arabia just on the subsidies of the guaranteed min-come make you as poor as any other homeless in other nations? > **[Is Saudi Arabia an implementation of basic income?](https://www.quora.com/Is-Saudi-Arabia-an-implementation-of-basic-income)** > > Answer: Thanks Jack for the A2A.. > > That was partially true before 30 years or so. When the government had the wrong mindset that it is responsible for the prosperity of every Saudi. Nowadays, everyone must work to live. The government, however,... [http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-dividend-alaska-idUSKBN0HC2E320140917](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-dividend-alaska-idUSKBN0HC2E320140917) [http://pushprofile.com/history/history-of-minimum-wage/](http://pushprofile.com/history/history-of-minimum-wage/) [QUOTE=] Other countries – like Germany – just recently passed minimum wage laws early in 2015 […] Brazil’s national minimum wage is adjusted every year by federal law. In 2012, minimum wage was R$ 622 (173.57 USD) per month, which works out to R 20.7 (5.78 USD) per day and R 2.59 ($0.72 USD) per hour. […] Five southern states have no minimum wage laws, including Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, and South Carolina. Four states have a state minimum wage lower than the federal minimum wage, so the federal minimum wage automatically applies (Wyoming, Minnesota, Arkansas, and Georgia) […] Today, New Zealand has a countrywide minimum wage of $14.75 per hour. However, there is no minimum wage for employees under 16 years of age, and the minimum wage for employees between 16 and 17 is $11 per hour.[…] A rare few developed countries also have no minimum wage laws, including Hong Kong, Saudi Arabia, Chile, Denmark, Singapore, and United Arab Emirates. [/QUOTE] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professional-opponents-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/757949.md?page=7)