# Professor at CHristian college suspended for her outspoken support of Muslims **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 17, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651 "2015-12-17T01:11:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/181 "2015-12-21T23:12:23Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I really can’t make heads or tails of this post. Tails, definitely. I hope it’s a joke. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/182 "2015-12-21T23:31:03Z")
> [@Torontonian](#): > > I think its good she got suspended. Enough of leaking more gasoline on bonfire. Muslims are not into the belief that Jesus was a human. Koran shares lots of similarities with Bible and Jewish stuff but Muslims really don’t like to admit to it It’s almost as if many of the stories and characters in the Hebrew and Christian bibles, including Jesus, are in the Koran, or that Jesus is revered as a prophet in Islam! ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/183 "2015-12-22T00:55:16Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > They simply don’t believe God considered the Jews to be the chosen people, that’s all. Wrong. That premise has already been established as false right here in this thread. Go back and read the whole thread. > [@Torontonian](#): > > Muslims are not into the belief that Jesus was a human. You got that completely backwards. The exact contrary of what you said is the truth. > [@](#): > > Koran shares lots of similarities with Bible and Jewish stuff but Muslims really don’t like to admit to it Wrong as can be. Have you ever listened to Muslims at all? I don’t think you have. Muslims are more than happy to volunteer that information to anyone who’ll listen. They own it gladly. The ignorance displayed in the above quotes is part of the problem. Much worse than simple ignorance is this blatant copropoesis. Expect to get called on it by people who actually know about the subject. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/184 "2015-12-22T01:27:37Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Wrong. That premise has already been established as false right here in this thread. Go back and read the whole thread. My point was that one can worship the same God but not agree with everything some other religion or sect thinks about that God. Apparently the Koran says the Jews WERE chosen but aren’t any more. Whatever, I won’t quibble. I stand corrected, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/185 "2015-12-22T03:38:31Z")
A Jew looks at the history of the Jewish people, centuries of persecution, wandering in exile, and says, “G-d, choose someone else!” The Christians and Muslims say, "Oh, he _did!"_ Then the Christians and Muslims look at each other and start fighting over who is the actual Chosen People of the new dispensation. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/186 "2015-12-22T16:49:39Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Christianity does not consider Jesus to “be God.” That’s not a true statement. The Baltimore Cathechism, question 27: **Is the Son God?** Answer: The Son is God and the second Person of the Blessed Trinity. [Cite.](http://www.catholicity.com/baltimore-catechism/lesson03.html) ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/187 "2015-12-22T16:57:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s not a true statement. > > The Baltimore Cathechism, question 27: > > **Is the Son God?** > > Answer: > > The Son is God and the second Person of the Blessed Trinity. > > [Cite.](http://www.catholicity.com/baltimore-catechism/lesson03.html) Aside from the fact that Roman Catholicism doesn’t represent all of Christianity, this Cathetchism doesn’t quite say “Jesus is God.” I’m sure you know that the above doesn’t mean that Jesus an God are exactly the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/188 "2015-12-22T17:17:29Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Aside from the fact that Roman Catholicism doesn’t represent all of Christianity, this Cathetchism doesn’t quite say “Jesus is God.” > > I’m sure you know that the above doesn’t mean that Jesus an God are exactly the same thing. Right, they’re talking about God’s _other_ son, Marvin. ETA: also see John 1:1. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/189 "2015-12-22T17:34:29Z")
The Baltimore Cathechism, question 27: Is the Son God? Answer: The Son is God and the second Person of the Blessed Trinity. > [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Aside from the fact that Roman Catholicism doesn’t represent all of Christianity, this Cathetchism doesn’t quite say “Jesus is God.” Which Son do you imagine that line is referring to, **lance**? And while it’s true that Roman Catholicism does not represent all of Christianity, you said: > [@lance strongarm](#): > > Christianity does not consider Jesus to “be God.” So did you mean, “There are some Christian faiths that do not consider Jesus to be God, while others do?” ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/190 "2015-12-22T19:40:17Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Christianity does not consider Jesus to “be God.” This is totally incorrect. I would not be surprised if 90% of all Christians belong to denominations which believe that Christ is God. Denominations believing that Christ is God include: Roman Catholic Lutheran Baptist Methodist Eastern Orthodox Presbyterian Anglican Evangelical See cites: [Christian Denominations: Beliefs and Theology: Comparison Chart](http://www.religionfacts.com/denominations-beliefs) [What Evangelical Christians Believe](http://www.evangelicalbeliefs.com/) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/191 "2015-12-22T19:49:16Z")
> [@Nelson\_Pike](#): > > This is totally incorrect. > > I would not be surprised if 90% of all Christians belong to denominations which believe that Christ is God. I’m curious to learn which flavor of Christians **lance** was picturing. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/192 "2015-12-22T19:57:11Z")
> [@Nelson\_Pike](#): > > This is totally incorrect. > > I would not be surprised if 90% of all Christians belong to denominations which believe that Christ is God. We’re off track here though. I said “Jesus,” not Christ. The historical Jesus wasn’t God, he was the “song of God” until he went off and got himself killed and ascended to heaven or whatever. Then the Christians had to figure out what he was so they came up with this Trinity thing and all that. I’m talking about Jesus, the living guy, who is a prophet according to Muslims. That doesn’t conflict (much). In any event, it still doesn’t matter - two (or three) religions can worship the same God but not have the same beliefs about that God. ---
**Author:** ![Jayhawker\_Soule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/57b2e6/32.png) [@Jayhawker\_Soule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayhawker_Soule)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/193 "2015-12-22T20:03:03Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > [Dr. Larycia Hawkins,](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/wheaton-college-suspends-dr-larycia-hawkins-professor-who-vowed-wear-n481001) an associate professor of political science at Wheaton College, a small Christian college in the Chicago suburbs, has been suspended for professing support of Muslims. > > Interestingly, the suspension is ostensibly not for wearing a hijab, but for stating that Christians and Muslims worship the same God, which is apparently [in violation of the college’s “evangelical Statement of Faith.”](http://www.wheaton.edu/Media-Center/Media-Relations/Statements/Wheaton-College-Statement-Regarding-Dr-Hawkins) > > Now I’m just a Jewish agnostic; what do I know? but it seems awfully, oh, wrong to suspend (and, I’m guessing commence termination proceedings) a political science professor who is herself a practicing Christian for supporting another People of the Book. AM I missing something? The only thing that you are missing is that Islamophobia taints interpretation, and what we are dealing with here is an interpretation, a choice, made by the specific individuals at Wheaton College. So, for example, the [**USA TODAY**](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/12/16/professor-suspended-after-saying-christians-muslims-have-same-god/77418168/) notes: > [@](#): > > John Schmalzbauer, a 1990 graduate of Wheaton College who is a religious studies professor at Missouri State University, said the school’s decision was particularly galling because Hawkins’ statements were very similar to statements made by one of the school’s most famous graduates, Rev. Billy Graham, and other influential Evangelical pastors. > > Graham in a 2007 television appearance suggested that God accepts Muslims and followers of other religions. And several high-ranking Wheaton officials were among the signatories of a 2007 Christian-Muslim statement of understanding, which notes Christianity and Islam’s “unique devotion to one God, indeed the love of God, as the primary duty of every believer.” Three of the Wheaton College officials, including the current provost, later withdrew their support after the statement of understanding was criticized by some preeminent evangelical scholars. Also of value is the Christianity Today opinion piece found [**here**](http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2011/april/muslimschristianssamegod.html?share=W4Xb+kmc37Q7YvLEh5lPD2uVBD0e2iSz) in which Miroslav Volf, professor of theology at Yale Divinity School, argues … > [@](#): > > First, all Christians don’t worship the same God, and all Muslims don’t worship the same God. > > But I think that Muslims and Christians who embrace the normative traditions of their faith refer to the same object, to the same Being, when they pray, when they worship, when they talk about God. The referent is the same. > > The description of God is partly different. There are significant differences that are the subject of strenuous debates. Some differences really are foundational to the faith, like the doctrine of the Trinity. At the same time, there’s this amazing overlap and similarity. We need to build on what is similar rather than simply bemoan what’s different. The current leadership of Wheaton College disagrees, dismissing the Pope, the Rev. Billy Graham, Professor Schmalzbauer and Professor Volf, and choosing instead the most sectarian alternative. One wonders whether those who support the suspension would speak with such self-righteous certitude were the situation a bit different, e.g., were we talking of a young professor suspended in the early 30’s for wearing the Star of David and asserting solidarity with European Jewry because ‘we all worship the same God.’ Kol HaKavod for your thread. L’Shalom JS ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/194 "2015-12-22T20:17:56Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > We’re off track here though. I said “Jesus,” not Christ. The historical Jesus wasn’t God, he was the “song of God” until he went off and got himself killed and ascended to heaven or whatever. Then the Christians had to figure out what he was so they came up with this Trinity thing and all that. > > I’m talking about Jesus, the living guy, who is a prophet according to Muslims. That doesn’t conflict (much). > > In any event, it still doesn’t matter - two (or three) religions can worship the same God but not have the same beliefs about that God. There is no distinction between “Jesus” and “Christ”. “Jesus Christ” is the traditional full name. According to the majority and mainstream Christian doctrine cited in my previous post the historical Jesus Christ was _both_ God _and_ man. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/195 "2015-12-22T20:20:37Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > We’re off track here though. I said “Jesus,” not Christ. The historical Jesus wasn’t God, he was the “song of God” until he went off and got himself killed and ascended to heaven or whatever. Then the Christians had to figure out what he was so they came up with this Trinity thing and all that. > > I’m talking about Jesus, the living guy, who is a prophet according to Muslims. That doesn’t conflict (much). > > In any event, it still doesn’t matter - two (or three) religions can worship the same God but not have the same beliefs about that God. > [@Nelson\_Pike](#): > > There is no distinction between “Jesus” and “Christ”. “Jesus Christ” is the traditional full name. > > According to the majority and mainstream Christian doctrine cited in my previous post the historical Jesus Christ was _both_ God _and_ man. What **Nelson Pike** (and others) said. If you need a [cite](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarnation_(Christianity)): [QUOTE=Wikipedia] The Incarnation in traditional Christianity is the belief that the second person of the Trinity, also known as God the Son or the Logos (Word), “became flesh” by being conceived in the womb of Mary, also known as the Theotokos (Birth-giver to God) or “Mater Dei” (mother of God). The Incarnation, then, is the belief that Jesus Christ is fully God and fully human. The Incarnation is a fundamental theological teaching of orthodox (Nicene) Christianity, based on its understanding of the New Testament. The Incarnation represents the belief that the Son of God, who is the non-created second hypostasis of the triune God, took on a human body and nature and became both man and God. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/196 "2015-12-22T20:25:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **lance strongarm** : > > We’re off track here though. I said “Jesus,” not Christ. The historical Jesus wasn’t God, he was the “song of God” until he went off and got himself killed and ascended to heaven or whatever. Then the Christians had to figure out what he was so they came up with this Trinity thing and all that. The Gospels (John in particular) are quite clear that that same entity is God, always has been God, and always will be God, both while He was incarnate, and before and after. Now, I’m sure there are some small, obscure sects somewhere which call themselves Christian but reject the Gospel of John, but for the vast majority of Christians, the distinction you’re claiming does not exist. ---
**Author:** ![Jayhawker\_Soule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/57b2e6/32.png) [@Jayhawker\_Soule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayhawker_Soule)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/197 "2015-12-22T20:49:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The Gospels (John in particular) are quite clear that that same entity is God, always has been God, and always will be God, both while He was incarnate, and before and after. Now, I’m sure there are some small, obscure sects somewhere which call themselves Christian but reject the Gospel of John, but for the vast majority of Christians, the distinction you’re claiming does not exist. Preaching aside, how is this relevant? ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/198 "2015-12-22T23:28:46Z")
This is getting off topic but it relates the same issue **Chief Pedant** talks about above (in support of Wheaton’s actions). No mainstream Christian considers God, Yaweh and Allah to be LITERALLY DIFFERENT entities, anymore than they consider the Jesus that was born to Mary to be a different entity to the Jesus who is the son of God and part of the trinity (though the[latter distinction](http://www.earlychristianhistory.info/monoph.html)has been a cause for some dispute in the church). An analogy would saying “Everyone thought Joe Bloggs was a kind family man and pillar of the community, but when police searched his basement a very different Joe Bloggs was revealed”. We don’t literally mean there are LITERALLY two different Joe Bloggs, just that his neighbours and family associate very different characteristics with Joe Bloggs than the police searching his basement. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/199 "2015-12-22T23:39:20Z")
> [@Nelson\_Pike](#): > > There is no distinction between “Jesus” and “Christ”. “Jesus Christ” is the traditional full name. Not for Muslims. > [@](#): > > According to the majority and mainstream Christian doctrine cited in my previous post the historical Jesus Christ was _both_ God _and_ man. Okay, I guess my bias against actually believing this stuff is showing. My overall point was that Muslims can worship God, and revere Jesus, just fine without having to be Christians. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/200 "2015-12-22T23:40:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The Gospels (John in particular) are quite clear that that same entity is God, always has been God, and always will be God, both while He was incarnate, and before and after. Now, I’m sure there are some small, obscure sects somewhere which call themselves Christian but reject the Gospel of John, but for the vast majority of Christians, the distinction you’re claiming does not exist. Unitarians come to mind. Small, but not obscure. In any event, I’ve already explained. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651.md?page=11)