# Professor at CHristian college suspended for her outspoken support of Muslims **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 17, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651 "2015-12-17T01:11:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2016, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/281 "2016-01-05T03:24:22Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > And whether you believe “New Testaments are verbally inspired by God and inerrant in the original writing”. If you do (and Wheaton claims to) you cannot deny they are the same God. Large parts of the New Testament are spent clearly and unambiguously saying that the (non-triune) God worshiped by the Jews IS the same God worshiped by Christians. > > Muslims clearly worship the same God as the Jews (their statement of beleid begins with the “God of Isaac and the God Abraham”), so if Jews worship the same God as the Christians, so do Muslims. If you pick up the thread earlier, you will see that there is a difference between affirming the God the Father, and denying the Trinity. In the bizarre sequence of added revelations, each subsequent guy can lay claim to the prior believer’s God, with modifications. But the inverse does not work. You may take my God, add some stuff, and claim you are worshiping the same guy. I may refuse to accept your God because he’s not the one I had and I don’t want mine changed. So Christians can lay claim to worshiping Yahweh while Jews say the triune Christian God is not Yahweh. And Muslims can lay claim to worshiping the Abrahamic God the Father while Christians say Allah is not their triune God. And so it goes, until we learn that theological debate and a plea for consistency are hopeless tasks for made-up stuff. That’s why the ONLY thing at issue here is whether the Wheaton statement of faith specifying a triune God is at odds with the Qur’an denying a triune God. It is. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2016, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/282 "2016-01-05T04:11:30Z")
Again, you keep claiming she was fired for denying the Trinity. But that isn’t (likely) what she is saying. So it doesn’t make sense to fire her for denying the Trinity, does it? Maybe there is some other theological justification, but “she’s denying the Trinity” isn’t a good one unless that’s actually what she is doing. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2016, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/283 "2016-01-05T07:39:08Z")
> [@](#): > > I believe that at least one distinction evangelicals make is that Judaism does not specifically renounce the Trinity… This is news to the Jewish people. it must explain the strange american evangelical christian movement of ‘the jews for jesus’ and much of the gross hypocrisy. > [@even\_sven](#): > > Again, you keep claiming she was fired for denying the Trinity. … > Maybe there is some other theological justification, but “she’s denying the Trinity” isn’t a good one unless that’s actually what she is doing. Standard operating procedure for this person, the strawman arguments advanced, elaborated, asserted and built into towers ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2016, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/284 "2016-01-05T07:59:34Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > This is news to the Jewish people. it must explain the strange american evangelical christian movement of ‘the jews for jesus’ and much of the gross hypocrisy. Hell yes it is. The most fundamental Jewish prayer, the Sh’ma, is “Hear O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one.” The single and undivided nature of God is one of the basic tenets of Judaism. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2016, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/285 "2016-01-05T08:03:44Z")
Ah but you did not write it down in their Bible!!! So… ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2016, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/286 "2016-01-05T14:02:52Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > I totally get the complaint that Wheaton is logically inconsistent, and disingenuous. > > Dr Hawkins signed off on the statement of faith. You can read the essay on why Wheaton-type evangelicals want to accept the Jewish Yahweh but not the Islamic Allah. If it doesn’t convince you, by all means send them a scathing rebuke. > > I believe that at least one distinction evangelicals make is that Judaism does not specifically renounce the Trinity, while Islam does. In Wheaton’s view, the triune God is revealed as having existed within the God of Israel, and referenced in the OT, even though Jews themselves may not realize that. Islam however, specifically denies the Evangelicals’ triune God. > > But feel free to argue with the people making all this up. > > As I said earlier, I don’t think Dr Hawkins will argue her point. I predict she takes the money, shuts up, and bails. Everyone has a price, and to date I have not seen anything suggesting she thought through much of this wrt Wheaton’s statement of faith. That she would quote what Francis said as backup suggests to me she doesn’t really understand the Wheaton theological positions. We’ll see. As others have pointed out, the “undivided and singular” nature of the Jewish god is sorta central to Judaism. As far as trinity-renouncers go, Jews are champs. 😉 The god worshipped by Muslims is pretty explicitly the Jewish god, so if the god of the Jews exists within the trinity, so does the god of the Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2016, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/287 "2016-01-05T14:29:30Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > As others have pointed out, the “undivided and singular” nature of the Jewish god is sorta central to Judaism. As far as trinity-renouncers go, Jews are champs. 😉 > > The god worshipped by Muslims is pretty explicitly the Jewish god, so if the god of the Jews exists within the trinity, so does the god of the Muslims. And that’s when the [moon god theory](http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/08/the-allah-is-the-moon-god-nonsense-could-be-the-stupidest-anti-muslim-conspiracy-theory-yet-page-iii/) comes to the rescue! (The guy described in this link is not the inventor of this theory, just one of its proponents. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are dolts in the theology department at Wheaton College who ascribe to it.) Sorry if this has already been mentioned in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2016, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/288 "2016-01-05T19:30:09Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > If you pick up the thread earlier, you will see that there is a difference between affirming the God the Father, and denying the Trinity. > > In the bizarre sequence of added revelations, each subsequent guy can lay claim to the prior believer’s God, with modifications. But the inverse does not work. You may take my God, add some stuff, and claim you are worshiping the same guy. I may refuse to accept your God because he’s not the one I had and I don’t want mine changed. Where in Wheaton’s statement of beliefs, or anywhere in mainstream Christian belief canons is this idea laid out? Sure there have been countless offshoots and sects, that have modified the faith in ways “mainstream” Christianity are errant to some degree, many to the point of considering them inspired by satan (starting from the very beginning of “mainstream” Christianity). But it was always accepted that the members of those sects are actually attempting to worship the same god as mainstream Christianity, no matter how bizarre and errant their beliefs (and likewise for what the members of those sects think about mainstream Christians). > [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > So Christians can lay claim to worshiping Yahweh while Jews say the triune Christian God is not Yahweh. And Muslims can lay claim to worshiping the Abrahamic God the Father while Christians say Allah is not their triune God. > . > That’s why the ONLY thing at issue here is whether the Wheaton statement of faith specifying a triune God is at odds with the Qur’an denying a triune God. It is But the point of the contention (lack of triune nature) is not something Muslims modified, its something that they share with Jews. So if you claim a lack of triune nature makes the Muslim a different God, it must follow that the Jewish God is a different God, and that goes against most of the New Testament. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/289 "2016-01-05T19:54:33Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > And that’s when the [moon god theory](http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/08/the-allah-is-the-moon-god-nonsense-could-be-the-stupidest-anti-muslim-conspiracy-theory-yet-page-iii/) comes to the rescue! > > (The guy described in this link is not the inventor of this theory, just one of its proponents. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are dolts in the theology department at Wheaton College who ascribe to it.) > > Sorry if this has already been mentioned in this thread. Of course exactly the same thing is said by protestants about the Catholic cult of the Virgin Mary and the pre-Christian cult of Diana. Seeing as Muslims literally begin their prayers with “the God of Issac and the God of Abraham” it would take a serious modification of Christian teachings to claim they are not worshipping the same God as Christians. That claim seems like it would enough be departure from the Christian mainstream to warrant being thrown out of Wheaton (FTR I _don’t_ think any public supported school school should be able to sack people because of their religious beliefs but that’s a whole different thread) ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2016, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/290 "2016-01-05T20:08:11Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Seeing as Muslims literally begin their prayers with “the God of Issac and the God of Abraham” ?? The Basmallah is In the Name of God the Merciful and the Compassionate. in any case it remains very simple, if the evangelicals of the USA think that the JEwish God is the same as theirs, there is no logical exclusion of the Islamic conception, for while we and the Jews can disagree on many of the details (and there are stupid disputes and even stupider and wronger violence over any disagreements), we have agreed for 1400 years that we share the common and profound idea of the Unicity of God. It is just bizarre to see the assertion that Jews do not “specifically” reject the trinity idea… (or maybe the weaseling word is “renouncing”? which would be even more hyporcrital usage, is it not the false witnessing?) (in any case the real answer I am sure is in the reality it is for the americans evengalicals politically incorrect to be anti-jewish now, but they can transfer the same old prejudices to another minority) ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2016, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/291 "2016-01-05T20:42:32Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > ?? > The Basmallah is In the Name of God the Merciful and the Compassionate. I may have got confused with the six articles of faith. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2016, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/292 "2016-01-05T23:25:58Z")
After careful deliberation and prayer, Wheaton is going to fire her ass. > **[Google News](https://news.google.com/home?sr=1&ct2=us%2F2_0_s_1_1_a&sa=t&usg=AFQjCNEg313ugZ8f7PMXKuQ21y-qw1tDCg&cid=52779023107395&url=https:%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fnews%2Facts-of-faith%2Fwp%2F2016%2F01%2F05%2Fwheaton-is-planning-to-fire-professor-who-said-muslims-and-christians-worship-the-same-god%2F&ei=t0mMVtDlDcafhAHh4rLICg&rt=HOMEPAGE&vm=STANDARD&bvm=section&did=2588037965557652301&sid=en_us-n&ssid=n&st=1&at=dt0&hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en)** > > Comprehensive up-to-date news coverage, aggregated from sources all over the world by Google News. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/293 "2016-01-06T03:22:49Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Again, you keep claiming she was fired for denying the Trinity. > > But that isn’t (likely) what she is saying. So it doesn’t make sense to fire her for denying the Trinity, does it? > > Maybe there is some other theological justification, but “she’s denying the Trinity” isn’t a good one unless that’s actually what she is doing. She hasn’t been fired, but is on administrative leave. A process to fire her will begin during which she has a chance to clarify her positions. I think–based on news reports–that what she is doing is refusing to defend her position, period. I would suspect that she has made statements which Wheaton considers contrary to their statement of faith, and has probably (if she’s a typical professor there) at other times made statements affirming the Trinity and the general statement of faith. It would be silly to go to work for Wheaton and not generally accept it. So I think what Wheaton is asking for is a formal defense outside of tweets and Facebook of just exactly what she meant by any “same God” comments, or any other comments made which Wheaton thinks is at odds with their statement of faith. I think I posted earlier that I have no idea what she thinks, and you or someone else said I was being disingenuous. But I’m not. I don’t pretend to be privy to her particulars (although I know the evangelical world well). What I keep saying is not her position. I just keep saying that Wheaton considers Islam’s tenets to be in opposition to the Wheaton tenet that Jesus is fully God. I believe the current impasse is that Wheaton wants her to answer specifically and clearly the concerns her comments have raised, and she is apparently refusing to do that. One suspects there may be a little disinclination due to past simmering contentions not as publicly heralded? Who knows… Per the [Chicago Tribune today](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-wheaton-college-professor-fired-20160105-story.html): _"On the part of the College, further theological clarification is necessary before such reconciliation can take place, and unfortunately Dr. Hawkins has stated clearly her unwillingness to participate in such further clarifying conversations,” the college said in a statement. “This represents an impasse on our efforts toward reconciliation.”_ [Wheaton’s FAQs here](http://www.wheaton.edu/Media-Center/Media-Relations/Statements/Frequently-Asked-Questions-Regarding-Dr-Larycia-Hawkins-Administrative-Leave-from-Wheaton-College). ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/294 "2016-01-06T03:28:53Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > I believe the current impasse is that Wheaton wants her to answer specifically and clearly the concerns her comments have raised, and she is apparently refusing to do that. One suspects there may be a little disinclination due to past simmering contentions not as publicly heralded? Who knows… I certainly don’t claim any inside knowledge either, but perhaps if she stated her actual beliefs, she would be in some smallish degree of conflict with Wheaton’s Statement of Faith, and so she’s basically been given a choice between lying about her beliefs and being dismissed. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/295 "2016-01-06T03:39:35Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > ?? > The Basmallah is In the Name of God the Merciful and the Compassionate. > > in any case it remains very simple, if the evangelicals of the USA think that the JEwish God is the same as theirs, there is no logical exclusion of the Islamic conception, for while we and the Jews can disagree on many of the details (and there are stupid disputes and even stupider and wronger violence over any disagreements), we have agreed for 1400 years that we share the common and profound idea of the Unicity of God. > > It is just bizarre to see the assertion that Jews do not “specifically” reject the trinity idea… (or maybe the weaseling word is “renouncing”? which would be even more hyporcrital usage, is it not the false witnessing?) > > (in any case the real answer I am sure is in the reality it is for the americans evengalicals politically incorrect to be anti-jewish now, but they can transfer the same old prejudices to another minority) Of course it’s bizarre. The biggest mistake you can make here is to try to make sense of theology. I think the Jews reject the deity of Christ, and the Trinity. They don’t worship Jesus as God any more than do the Muslims. So we can say that Jews do not worship the same God as Evangelicals. But we can’t say the reverse, because Evangelicals take that starting point (Yahweh), add some revelations, claim it’s the same God the Father, with additional revelations that there is a triune God (buried in OT texts, btw, by their thinking). Therefore Evangelicals claim the same God as Jews even though Jews do not claim the same God as Evangelicals. OK, Mohammed comes along with yet additional revelations, this time specifically denounce the Trinity but affirming Yahweh. So Muslims get to say their God is the same Yahweh guy. They can’t and don’t say their God is the same Jesus guy. LOL. I’m not making this up, but this is what happens when you just make religious beliefs de novo. Nothing is consistent and whatcha got is a bunch of nutcases all arguing their theology as if they own the Truth. It’s risible. But there is no sense in which Evangelicals deny the deity of Christ, nor the separation of Christ from being truly God. And there is no sense in which Muslims accept the deity of Christ. Nor are Evangelicals inclined to extend the same ecumenism toward Islamic beliefs, which were made up after Christianity made up the trinity, as they are to extend some ecumenism toward Jews, who made up everything first. Nobody minds making up their own shit based on the last guy, but nobody likes the new guy on the block messing with their beliefs. Next thing you know some guy named Smith is gonna get a brand new revelation in these Latter Days and try to trump everyone who went before… Clear as mud? My pleasure. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/296 "2016-01-06T14:12:08Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Of course exactly the same thing is said by protestants about the Catholic cult of the Virgin Mary and the pre-Christian cult of Diana. > > Seeing as Muslims literally begin their prayers with “the God of Issac and the God of Abraham” it would take a serious modification of Christian teachings to claim they are not worshipping the same God as Christians. That claim seems like it would enough be departure from the Christian mainstream to warrant being thrown out of Wheaton (FTR I _don’t_ think any public supported school school should be able to sack people because of their religious beliefs but that’s a whole different thread) But they’re faking it! Or they don’t know their own religion! Or, or…they’ll come up with something. It’s religion, after all - there is no requirement that any of it make any sense. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/297 "2016-01-06T14:13:32Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Of course it’s bizarre. The biggest mistake you can make here is to try to make sense of theology. Exactly. All you can do is not allow someone to claim that their particular theological beliefs make sense when they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/298 "2016-01-06T15:00:28Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > She hasn’t been fired, but is on administrative leave. A process to fire her will begin during which she has a chance to clarify her positions. > > I think–based on news reports–that what she is doing is refusing to defend her position, period. I would suspect that she has made statements which Wheaton considers contrary to their statement of faith, and has probably (if she’s a typical professor there) at other times made statements affirming the Trinity and the general statement of faith. It would be silly to go to work for Wheaton and not generally accept it. > > So I think what Wheaton is asking for is a formal defense outside of tweets and Facebook of just exactly what she meant by any “same God” comments, or any other comments made which Wheaton thinks is at odds with their statement of faith. > > I think I posted earlier that I have no idea what she thinks, and you or someone else said I was being disingenuous. But I’m not. I don’t pretend to be privy to her particulars (although I know the evangelical world well). > > What I keep saying is not her position. I just keep saying that Wheaton considers Islam’s tenets to be in opposition to the Wheaton tenet that Jesus is fully God. > > I believe the current impasse is that Wheaton wants her to answer specifically and clearly the concerns her comments have raised, and she is apparently refusing to do that. One suspects there may be a little disinclination due to past simmering contentions not as publicly heralded? Who knows… > > Per the [Chicago Tribune today](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-wheaton-college-professor-fired-20160105-story.html): > _"On the part of the College, further theological clarification is necessary before such reconciliation can take place, and unfortunately Dr. Hawkins has stated clearly her unwillingness to participate in such further clarifying conversations,” the college said in a statement. “This represents an impasse on our efforts toward reconciliation.”_ > > [Wheaton’s FAQs here](http://www.wheaton.edu/Media-Center/Media-Relations/Statements/Frequently-Asked-Questions-Regarding-Dr-Larycia-Hawkins-Administrative-Leave-from-Wheaton-College). In Wheaton’s own FAQ, they can’t bring themselves to actually state outright that Muslims and Christians worship different gods! To quote: > [@](#): > > 1. Is it true that Christians and Muslims worship the same God? > > While Islam and Christianity are both monotheistic, we believe there are fundamental differences between the two faiths, including what they teach about God’s revelation to humanity, the nature of God, the path to salvation, and the life of prayer. > > As an institution of distinctively evangelical Christian identity, the core of our faith, as expressed in our Statement of Faith, is our belief that “the Lord Jesus Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures, as a representative and substitutionary sacrifice, triumphing over all evil; and that all who believe in Him are justified by His shed blood and forgiven of all their sins.” We affirm that salvation is through Christ alone. Note: all of what Wheaton states in its FAQ is about the nature of Wheaton’s Christian faith vs. Islam. All of it can be 100% true and yet 100% compatible with the conclusion: ‘yet, despite the acknowledged fundamental differences between the two faiths, we acknowledge that Muslims worship the god of the Jews as revealed in the Torah, and we do as well - although, as we have said, we understand the nature of that god differently from both Jews and Muslims’. In fact, Wheaton never outright concludes differently. It never takes the next step and says something like ‘in light of our belief in salvation through Christ alone, our god is in effect a different god from that of the Muslims (or Jews, for that matter)’. You have to read that between the lines. It is a perfect example of a ‘yes or no’ question that goes basically unanswered, indicating uncertainty and discomfort: all the more remarkable in that they wrote it voluntarily. If this issue were ever to go before a court, a cross-examiner would have a field day with them. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/299 "2016-01-06T15:06:24Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > As others have pointed out, the “undivided and singular” nature of the Jewish god is sorta central to Judaism. As far as trinity-renouncers go, Jews are champs. 😉 > > The god worshipped by Muslims is pretty explicitly the Jewish god, so if the god of the Jews exists within the trinity, so does the god of the Muslims. The God of the Jews is the God of the Muslims (with their added revelations), but the added revelations of the Muslims means the God of the Muslims is not the God of the Jews. Once you change the previous guy’s God, the “same” argument only works one way. I think Wheaton would say that eEvangelicals also believe in an undivided and singular nature of God in three expressions:Father, Son and Spirit. 3 in 1, like the lubricant. (No; it doesn’t make sense, and Yes; it’s doublespeak–but hey–it’s theology, remember). The Qur’an calls out a specific denial of the Trinity (since Mo invented Islam after the Christians invented the Trinity). The Torah calls out a singular God, which the Evangelicals buy into it. It does not deny the Trinity by name since the Trinity was not even invented yet to deny. Yada yada blah blah blah But as for Dr Hawkins, what she’ll have to do when the firing process begins is defend her position on all this, or risk getting fired for not clarifying it. There are plenty of arguments for both sides but Wheaton is not going to extend Evangelical ecumenism to Islamic tenets about God. Period. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/300 "2016-01-06T15:59:04Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > The God of the Jews is the God of the Muslims (with their added revelations), but the added revelations of the Muslims means the God of the Muslims is not the God of the Jews. Once you change the previous guy’s God, the “same” argument only works one way. Neither Jews nor Muslims see it that way. Nor, may I add, does that make much in the way of sense. Rather, as far as I know, Jews and Muslims acknowledge that the same god is in issue, but disagree on the nature of his prophets - Muslims adding Mohammed (and, for that matter, Jesus) to ‘the list’. > [@](#): > > I think Wheaton would say that eEvangelicals also believe in an undivided and singular nature of God in three expressions:Father, Son and Spirit. 3 in 1, like the lubricant. (No; it doesn’t make sense, and Yes; it’s doublespeak–but hey–it’s theology, remember). > > The Qur’an calls out a specific denial of the Trinity (since Mo invented Islam after the Christians invented the Trinity). > > The Torah calls out a singular God, which the Evangelicals buy into it. It does not deny the Trinity by name since the Trinity was not even invented yet to deny. The Torah isn’t, of course, Judaism. Judaism is the modern religion of the Jews, that includes the Torah of course, but also the traditions and interpretations found in the ‘oral Torah’ - most notably, the Talmud - which certainly post-date, in parts, the founding of Christianity: in some cases (the “commentaries”) explicitly so. In all cases, once Jews became aware of Christianity, they needless to say denied the notion of a “son” or the trinity. > **[Historic Jewish Views on Christianity | My Jewish Learning](https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/jewish-views-on-christianity/)** > > Jewish Views on Christianity. Attitudes Towards Non Jews. Jews and Non Jews. Judaism and Other Faiths. Jewish Ideas and Beliefs > [@](#): > > In the Talmud and midrash, the comparatively few references to Christianity (these only appear in uncensored versions) are to this religion as a heretical sect believing in a form of dualism, God the Father and God the Son. > > Typical is the comment of the late third‑century Palestinian teacher, Rabbi Abbahu, on the verse (Isaiah 44:6): “I am the first, and I am the last, and beside Me there is no God.” As Rabbi Abbahu spells it out: “‘I am the first,’ for I have no father; ‘and I am the last,’ for I have no son, ‘and beside Me there is no God,’ for I have no brother.” Since the doctrine of the Trinity did not emerge fully until a later period, there are no references to this doctrine in the Talmud or midrash, despite far‑fetched attempts to find hints of it in these sources. Under your theory, the Torah may get off the hook, but Judaism would not. Interestingly, Judaism has a “built-in” approach to other religions that are not Jewish: the Noahide laws. In Judaism, only Jews need to be Jewish. Non-Jews can be whatever they want, as long as they follow the 'laws of Noah". The reasoning: Noah was universally considered a righteous man, but of course, he was not Jewish - he predates Judaism. Noah was also, naturally, the ancestor of everyone on Earth. Therefore, anyone can be “righteous”, as long as they follow the laws Noah followed (no murdering, no stealing, etc.). The question of whether they are worshipping ‘the same god’ if they follow a different religion isn’t important. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651.md?page=16)