# Professor at CHristian college suspended for her outspoken support of Muslims **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 17, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651 "2015-12-17T01:11:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/41 "2015-12-17T09:43:54Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > Funny, apparently the Pope pretty much agrees with her. He’s not a Christian, then? Not according to the people at the school, no. From their point of view us Papists (of which the Pope is kind of first and foremost) will not be burned at the stake because it’s kind of illegal, but we’re definitely going to Hell. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/42 "2015-12-17T10:14:39Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > This appears to be one of the rare situations where holding a particular religious belief qualifies as a reasonable job requirement. Wheaton College defined what is acceptable religious belief and Dr Hawkins agreed she held those beliefs. From her public statement, she no longer holds those beliefs. So the college is justified in suspending her. I haven’t seen anything come out yet about what Wheaton College’s specific theological policies were at the time she started working there, or what degree of variance from those policies was considered acceptable, if any (or whether her opinions may have evolved over the twelve years she has been working there). I am guessing that may come out as the story develops. And for that matter, I’m not seeing anything in their [Statement of Faith](http://www.wheaton.edu/About-Wheaton/Statement-of-Faith-and-Educational-Purpose) as it exists now which says anything about how Christians should treat non-Christians. I do see some bits which would potentially conflict with Dr. Hawkins’ statements about evolution, but so far that’s not what the college is complaining about. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/43 "2015-12-17T10:26:04Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > As I so often hear from those on the left who fear freedom of expression. Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences. She got consequenced. Sure. And I think it was wrong of the college to treat her as they have. That’s my whole point. And I acknowledge that there may well not end up being anything illegal about it; it just stinks that apparently one can’t work at Wheaton College even as a person of conscience (not even a person working in an inherently theological field) with slightly different Christian beliefs. At least not if one wants to be honest about one’s opinions. I suspect that she will land on her feet working elsewhere, which is probably better for her in the long run. Whether that is by her own choice or the College’s choice remains to be seen. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/44 "2015-12-17T10:33:22Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Actually you say you are familiar with similar cases and then list two that aren’t similar at all. A refugee organization has a relatively non-religious message, and shouldn’t expect people to adhere to strict theological positions to work there. In general it’s also not expected the teachers at K-12 Catholic schools adhere to strict Catholic theology (although certain things that are gravely at odds with Catholic theology have resulted in dismissals, generally simply being Protestant or even atheist isn’t a deal breaker), but Wheaton is explicitly religious throughout–and by design. No position there is expected to be either secular or out of conformity with the established theology. Both examples I gave are similar in the sense that it didn’t even matter whether the employee’s role was inherently religious; because the organization where they worked was religiously affiliated, it was not required to abide by employment laws that would have applied in any other organization. The nexus between the employee’s theological position and the organization’s mission was even weaker, and yet in both cases the employer was allowed to behave in a way that would not be legal in another setting. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/45 "2015-12-17T11:07:02Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > That’s a pretty big difference, though. Look, if you say Jews and Muslims have the same concept of God, then sure. The Jewish and Muslim ideas of God are pretty similar, even though they differ about some of the stuff God did. But they both have the idea of a monotheistic, transcendent lawgiver who created mankind and set up a moral code for them, rewarding people who follow it and punishing those who don’t. The differences are in the particulars (Is it ok to eat shellfish? To drink wine? Is there one set of proper moral and ritual behavior for the whole world, or is God stricter with one group of people than another? Which city is holier; Mecca or Jerusalem?), but the basic idea is the same. If you had a Muslim describe his idea of God to a Jew or a Jew to a Muslim, they would be pretty similar. > > The Christian concept of God, though, isn’t like the Jewish or Muslim concept of God. Seriously, are you a Christian? If so, what denomination? Because I thought that if Christians agreed on anything, it is that the God of the New Testament is the same God as in the Hebrew Bible. Yes, they think that Jews don’t understand him as well, but it’s still the same God. Certainly Jesus thought so. ETA: Curiously, they also think that Jews, who have been studying the Hebrew Bible for thousands of years, do not interpret it correctly. But I think that even you would concede that it’s the same book (although the order of the books is typically different). ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/46 "2015-12-17T11:28:50Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’ll express my distaste by forever referring to the school as “hWheaton”. Why the extra “h”? ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/47 "2015-12-17T11:31:23Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Seriously, are you a Christian? he is **jewish.** ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/48 "2015-12-17T12:50:46Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > he is **jewish.** Well then, I can understand why he thinks that Christians have distorted the God and the message of the Hebrew Bible to an amazing extent, but he is nevertheless wrong if he thinks that a significant percentage of Christians think it is not the same God. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/49 "2015-12-17T12:57:56Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > Funny, apparently the Pope pretty much agrees with her. He’s not a Christian, then? He’s not their kind of Christian. Their “Statement of Faith,” speaks of inerrant Scripture, fully trustworthy and of supreme and final authority. The Pope’s very existence as the representative of an organization that claims both Holy Tradition and Scripture are of valid weight in discerning the will of God, and claims to be able to act in the person of Christ when hearing confessions of the faithful, for example, are at odds with their view of Christianity. This is a surprise to you? This is the first you’re hearing of a theological division in the Christian world between Protestants and Roman Catholics? > [@](#): > > I never claimed they had to. I simply claimed that in my opinion, it was wrong of Wheaton College to take adverse employment action against a tenured faculty member for expressing her own opinion about how she, as a Christian, should behave toward people who are not Christian. In fact, from what I’ve seen in similar cases (including someone who is now a co-worker of mine because she was forced out of her previous job at a religiously based nonprofit for refusing to abide by a similar statement of faith that was imposed on her agency years after she started working there, an agency that served refugees no less, many of whom were persecuted based on their religion and most of those were not Christian), Wheaton College may well get away with this. They should. Obviously as a Roman Catholic myself, I believe that Wheaton’s faith in their version of Christian truths is flawed. But I also believe it’s their absolute right to start and run a college in which the faculty presents only their version of their faith. That right is fundamentally tied to our country’s notions of freedom of association and freedom of religious practice. The professor is of course equally free to hold and speak dissenting views – but not free to do so while remain a professor at the college. > [@](#): > > I am not disputing that Wheaton College may well be within their legal rights to do what they did; I simply believe that what they are doing is morally wrong and violates academic freedom. Believe away. But I believe a greater moral wrong would ensue if you told the college that academic freedom was a legal requirement for them to observe, and observing it required them to allow faculty to contradict their version of faith. It would be equally morally wrong to require a _yeshiva_ to continue to employ a professor who began telling his students that Christ was the Messiah, or a Catholic seminary to retain an instructor who taught that Mary was as sinful as the rest of humanity, or a Mormon college instructor who repudiated the claim that Lehi and Zoram traveled to North America in ancient times and were the ancestors of the Lamanites and the Nephites. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/50 "2015-12-17T13:03:25Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Well then, I can understand why he thinks that Christians have distorted the God and the message of the Hebrew Bible to an amazing extent, but he is nevertheless wrong if he thinks that a significant percentage of Christians think it is not the same God. I think his point is that Jews do not consider Jesus deity. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/51 "2015-12-17T13:04:13Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > You are mostly mistaken. Abraham is revered at least as much by Muslims as by Christians, and the Quran (e.g. 2.47) notes that the “Children of Israel” were Allah’s most favored people. The focus of my point was not the reverence accorded to Abraham but to the creation of the covenant with the Israelites. > [@](#): > > Surely the Christian belief that the Israelites were God’s Chosen People hasn’t prevented centuries of blatant anti-Semitism. In fact, it’s only been since Zionism found its stride in the early 20th century that Muslims have been anywhere near comparable to Christians in that respect, and even then, you’d have to say Christians easily took that century, too. True, but how is that relevant to the current beliefs of Wheaton? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/52 "2015-12-17T13:07:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Their “Statement of Faith,” speaks of inerrant Scripture, fully trustworthy and of supreme and final authority. The Pope’s very existence as the representative of an organization that claims both Holy Tradition and Scripture are of valid weight in discerning the will of God, and claims to be able to act in the person of Christ when hearing confessions of the faithful, for example, are at odds with their view of Christianity. Nonetheless, wouldn’t you agree that Wheaton and the Pope both worship the same God? One of them is mistaken about how God acts. In the same way, Dr. Hawkins is correct that Islam and Christianity and Judaism all worship the same God. They disagree about some of His attributes and actions, but it’s the same God. One or more of those religions is wrong about what they teach and believe. Being mistaken about something doesn’t prove that you are talking about something else. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/53 "2015-12-17T13:11:25Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Nonetheless, wouldn’t you agree that Wheaton and the Pope both worship the same God? One of them is mistaken about how God acts. > > In the same way, Dr. Hawkins is correct that Islam and Christianity and Judaism all worship the same God. They disagree about some of His attributes and actions, but it’s the same God. One or more of those religions is wrong about what they teach and believe. Being mistaken about something doesn’t prove that you are talking about something else. > > Regards, > Shodan Yeah, **Bricker** agrees that they worship the same God. But the people from Wheaton do not. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/54 "2015-12-17T13:29:27Z")
I understand that, but I believe the position of Wheaton is logically invalid, for reasons mentioned. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/55 "2015-12-17T14:10:10Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > OK, I’m outraged but that statement since Sterkfontein does not contain the fossils of any generally accepted human ancestors. This prof needs to get her anthropology correct! 🙂 Mainly, that site is famous as the location of the famous Taung child fossil-- a member of _A. africanus_. Some other species, too, but none that are clearly our ancestors. Eh? Which non-ancestral hominins are you suggesting left Acheulean tools at Sterkfontein? There’s **definitely** _H. ergaster_\* and _H. habilis_\*\* fossils in the Sterkfontein caves (specifically [Swartkrans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swartkrans)), in addition to the Australopithecines like _A. africanus_ (which is not _that_ controversial as being in the direct human line, unless your surname is Leakey :D) And that’s _without_ touching the controversial ones like Curnoe’s catchall _H. gautengenis_ and Berger’s _H. naledi._ You may have heard of that last one, caused quite a stir fairly recently? - Or _H. erectus_, depending on where you stand in _that_ debate. \*\* See \* ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/56 "2015-12-17T14:14:43Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > You are mostly mistaken. Abraham is revered at least as much by Muslims as by Christians True. Case in point - I’ve personally known a lot more Muslim Ibrahims (at least 8) than I have Christian Abrahams (1) but the majority of my acquaintances have always been Christian, not Muslim ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/57 "2015-12-17T14:57:18Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I understand that, but I believe the position of Wheaton is logically invalid, for reasons mentioned. > > Regards, > Shodan Well, yes, but we’re talking (with all due respect to people of faith) about differing beliefs about an invisible super-man in the sky. Logic doesn’t really come into it. I think Wheaton is being silly about this; surely even the most dogmatic religious institution should be able to tolerate _some_ dissent, and it’s not as though she said this in class. Nonetheless, they are legally entitled to fire this professor and that’s an end of it. Consider it an object lesson for any student who was considering Wheaton on solely academic grounds. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/58 "2015-12-17T15:26:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I think Wheaton is being silly about this; surely even the most dogmatic religious institution should be able to tolerate _some_ dissent, and it’s not as though she said this in class. She made a public pronouncement about it, as a faculty member at Wheaton. Saying something in public that is theologically at odds with the official beliefs of the institution you represent is a lot worse than saying something in class. That said, it’s still not clear to me that anything she said _was_ actually inconsistent with evangelical Christianity, let alone “mere Christianity,” and she may not have thought so either at the time she said it. Prior to this incident, the association I had with Wheaton college was that it’s sort of a U.S. center for studies of C.S. Lewis (and other famous British Christian authors, some of whom were Catholic): the [Marion E. Wade Center](http://www.wheaton.edu/wadecenter) at Wheaton > [@](#): > > is a major research collection of materials by and about seven British authors: Owen Barfield, G.K. Chesterton, C.S. Lewis, George MacDonald, Dorothy L. Sayers, J.R.R. Tolkien, and Charles Williams. (Among other things, C.S. Lewis’s [wardrobe](http://www.wheaton.edu/wadecenter/Welcome/Museum/Museum-Artifacts) resides there.) Which made it a bit surprising to me that they would be so insular and draconian in their reaction to statements that don’t seem particularly problematic to many Christians. Although the other association I had with Wheaton college was the line “Suspension’s the buzz out at Wheaton,” from the classic Swirling Eddies song [“Hide the Beer, The Pastor’s Here.”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGonzl18fLc) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/59 "2015-12-17T15:31:02Z")
C.S. Lewis attended my boarding school. There was a library window he reputedly used to sit at and brood for hours, and I once vomited at that very window after having bad fish at lunch. True story. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/60 "2015-12-17T15:44:53Z")
It is indisputable that Muslims and Jews worship the same God. Both faiths attribute the same traits to the Deity, and members of both faiths acknowledge this fact. Their only point of disagreement is on the precise list of prophets of that God. Christians consider themselves to worship the same God as Jews do. If one accepts that premise, then, Christians also worship the same God as Muslims do. Now, a Christian will doubtless claim that the Muslim understanding of that God’s nature is in some sense wrong or at least incomplete. But a Christian will say the exact same thing about a Jew’s understanding. To say that the Muslim understanding of God is sufficiently different to constitute being “a different god” is equivalent to saying the same thing of the Jewish god. What this college is saying is that the god they worship is not the God of Abraham. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651.md?page=4)