# Professor at CHristian college suspended for her outspoken support of Muslims **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 17, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651 "2015-12-17T01:11:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/61 "2015-12-17T15:50:45Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Yeah, **Bricker** agrees that they worship the same God. > > But the people from Wheaton do not. Yup. More from their [Statement of Faith & Educational Purpose](http://www.wheaton.edu/About-Wheaton/Statement-of-Faith-and-Educational-Purpose): > [@](#): > > The doctrinal statement of Wheaton College, reaffirmed annually by its Board of Trustees, faculty, and staff, provides a summary of biblical doctrine that is consonant with evangelical Christianity. The statement accordingly reaffirms salient features of the historic Christian creeds, thereby identifying the College not only with the Scriptures but also with the reformers and the evangelical movement of recent years. The statement also defines the biblical perspective which informs a Wheaton education. These doctrines of the church cast light on the study of nature and man, as well as on man’s culture. While the school specializes in Liberal Arts, evolution is mentioned in the [Biology](http://www.wheaton.edu/Academics/Departments/Biology) curriculum. The school seems an odd mix of elements. It’s not a dump like Bob Jones University. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/62 "2015-12-17T16:49:16Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Nonetheless, wouldn’t you agree that Wheaton and the Pope both worship the same God? One of them is mistaken about how God acts. > > In the same way, Dr. Hawkins is correct that Islam and Christianity and Judaism all worship the same God. They disagree about some of His attributes and actions, but it’s the same God. One or more of those religions is wrong about what they teach and believe. Being mistaken about something doesn’t prove that you are talking about something else. Surely you can see why some Christians might consider the divinity of Christ to be more than an “attribute,” however. What does it mean to be Christian without Christ? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/63 "2015-12-17T17:16:20Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Surely you can see why some Christians might consider the divinity of Christ to be more than an “attribute,” however. I don’t know what you mean. Christians consider the divinity of Christ to be an attribute. A very important attribute, but an attribute nonetheless. > [@](#): > > What does it mean to be Christian without Christ? Very little. No one is arguing that Muslims are Christian. They aren’t - they worship God and consider Jesus to be a prophet. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/64 "2015-12-17T18:03:50Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > I haven’t seen anything come out yet about what Wheaton College’s specific theological policies were at the time she started working there, or what degree of variance from those policies was considered acceptable, if any (or whether her opinions may have evolved over the twelve years she has been working there). I am guessing that may come out as the story develops. > > And for that matter, I’m not seeing anything in their [Statement of Faith](http://www.wheaton.edu/About-Wheaton/Statement-of-Faith-and-Educational-Purpose) as it exists now which says anything about how Christians should treat non-Christians. I do see some bits which would potentially conflict with Dr. Hawkins’ statements about evolution, but so far that’s not what the college is complaining about. I read the Statement of Faith you’ve linked to before I made my post. And it says this is the text they have been using since 1924. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/65 "2015-12-17T18:51:13Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’ll express my distaste by forever referring to the school as “hWheaton”. That is God’s Wil. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/66 "2015-12-17T19:04:20Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > Both examples I gave are similar in the sense that it didn’t even matter whether the employee’s role was inherently religious; because the organization where they worked was religiously affiliated, it was not required to abide by employment laws that would have applied in any other organization. The nexus between the employee’s theological position and the organization’s mission was even weaker, and yet in both cases the employer was allowed to behave in a way that would not be legal in another setting. Would you say that a Catholic seminary should be required to keep teachers on staff that teach atheist belief or reject core Catholic theology? No one is required to work at a religiously affiliated organization, and they’re a small minority of employers. We as a people have decided such organizations can hold people to religious standards, within certain limitations. The Wheaton example is very dissimilar from your two anecdotes because those were essentially secular positions working for a religious organization, versus the Wheaton example was an inherently theological position working for a religious school. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/67 "2015-12-17T19:05:23Z")
Not sure about that. She’s a poli sci professor. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/68 "2015-12-17T19:06:55Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I read the Statement of Faith you’ve linked to before I made my post. And it says this is the text they have been using since 1924. Whether the text has changed is not the same issue as the extent to which they have enforced adherence to the policy to the same extent throughout that entire period. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/69 "2015-12-17T19:13:55Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I think his point is that Jews do not consider Jesus deity. The problem is that the Christians tend to view themselves as worshipping the same god as the Jews. It is then rather odd for them to object to the notion that they, that is the Christians, worship the same god as the Muslims. Or to put it this way: it makes perfect sense for someone to claim that the Christian god is different from the Jewish/Muslim god, or to claim that all three religions are different enough to in effect worship “different gods” (despite their common social-evolutionary history). However, it makes no sense to put the dividing line between the Jewish notion of god and the Christian notion on one side, and the Muslim notion on the other. If logic had anything to do with the matter (and I admit it may not 😃 ), if Christians claim they worship a different god than the Muslims, they ought at the same time claim they worship a different one than the Jews. Conversely, if Christians claim to worship the same god as the Jews (which I assume most do), they ought to also claim to worship the same one as the Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/70 "2015-12-17T19:16:16Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Not sure about that. She’s a poli sci professor. And it’s a liberal arts college, not a seminary. It’s entirely possible to teach political science without a theological viewpoint at all. Heck, it’s possible to teach about the BIble without a theological viewpoint at all. My public secular high school had a whole upper level elective on the Bible as literature, in fact. And I can’t imagine teaching European or U.S. History without including some basic information about Christianity (I remember being quite confused by the doctrine of transubstantiation in my freshman high school European history class). Much of what I do know about Christianity has been learned from such sources, and by osmosis from being a Spanish major who had to read a lot of books that touched on issues of religion but were in no way theological works. So yes, I do understand the basics of certain divisions of beliefs between Catholics and Protestants. But the degree of nitpickiness and refusal to accept opinions that diverge even slightly will never cease to amaze me. (Same goes for Judaism, which I don’t practice, but in which I have had at least some level of theological education.) ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/71 "2015-12-17T19:43:09Z")
Ah, I think there’s only ONE core belief that all the Judeo-Christian-Muslim religions/branches/sects/denominations can agree on. And that is… **"We are right and all you other guys are wrong!"** Yeah, I think the bottom line is that Wheaton screwed the pooch on this one. I also think “Evangelical” has taken on a much more aggressive attitude than they used to have. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/72 "2015-12-17T20:23:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It is indisputable that Muslims and Jews worship the same God. Both faiths attribute the same traits to the Deity, and members of both faiths acknowledge this fact. Their only point of disagreement is on the precise list of prophets of that God. > > Christians consider themselves to worship the same God as Jews do. If one accepts that premise, then, Christians also worship the same God as Muslims do. > > Now, a Christian will doubtless claim that the Muslim understanding of that God’s nature is in some sense wrong or at least incomplete. But a Christian will say the exact same thing about a Jew’s understanding. To say that the Muslim understanding of God is sufficiently different to constitute being “a different god” is equivalent to saying the same thing of the Jewish god. > > What this college is saying is that the god they worship is not the God of Abraham. No, I disagree. Well, let me clearer: I agree that the college’s view of God is NOT the God of Abraham. But if I were to drink the evangelical Kool-Aid and believe as they do, THEN I would say: no, I disagree. Kool-Aid Bricker would point out that the God of Abraham is the same God that was worshiped by the Jews in Jesus’ time. Where the Christian understanding diverges from the Jews’ understanding is in who Jesus was. Jesus was the Son of God, the Word made Flesh. Jesus WAS God, with a fully human and a fully divine nature. The Jewish understanding of God misses this point… but prior to the birth of Jesus, there was no such Trinity in human knowledge and so that means that the God worshiped by the Jews is the God worshiped today by Christians. That God did not, however speak to Mohammad or select him as a prophet. The guidance that Muslims believe arose from Mohammad’s selection as a Prophet could not have come from the same God. Therefore, based on that fundamental disconnect, not the same God. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/73 "2015-12-17T20:24:40Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I don’t know what you mean. Christians consider the divinity of Christ to be an attribute. A very important attribute, but an attribute nonetheless. Why is it an “attribute” instead of a fundamental shift in composition? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/74 "2015-12-17T20:30:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, I disagree. > > Well, let me clearer: I agree that the college’s view of God is NOT the God of Abraham. But if I were to drink the evangelical Kool-Aid and believe as they do, THEN I would say: no, I disagree. > > Kool-Aid Bricker would point out that the God of Abraham is the same God that was worshiped by the Jews in Jesus’ time. Where the Christian understanding diverges from the Jews’ understanding is in who Jesus was. Jesus was the Son of God, the Word made Flesh. Jesus WAS God, with a fully human and a fully divine nature. The Jewish understanding of God misses this point… but prior to the birth of Jesus, there was no such Trinity in human knowledge and so that means that the God worshiped by the Jews is the God worshiped today by Christians. > > That God did not, however speak to Mohammad or select him as a prophet. > > The guidance that Muslims believe arose from Mohammad’s selection as a Prophet could not have come from the same God. Therefore, based on that fundamental disconnect, not the same God. The problem with this logic is that it would make the Catholic god “not the same god” as well. The evangelicals surely do not believe that various Catholics have become “saints” who sit at the hand of god and can intercede on behalf of people, people have been spoken to by Mary, etc. The guidance so received would make their “god” fundamentally different. If the Catholics can be “wrong” (in their view) about saints, Mary, etc. and still have the same god, why can’t Muslims be “wrong” about Mohammed and still have the same god? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/75 "2015-12-17T20:32:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Why is it an “attribute” instead of a fundamental shift in composition? Well, a shift in composition would be transsubstantiation. And evangelicals don’t believe in that. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/76 "2015-12-17T20:33:58Z")
Wheaton College is a pretty fucked up place (IMO). I lived 1 and 2 towns away for 30 years. I think they just recently did away with “the Code” which all staff and students had to sign. Students wouldn’t fuck in front of open windows just in case someone saw them and thought they were dancing. Billy Graham Center and all. Just because they don’t talk with funny accents, don’t get the impression they are anywhere near enlightened. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/77 "2015-12-17T20:34:08Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The problem with this logic is that it would make the Catholic god “not the same god” as well. The evangelicals surely do not believe that various Catholics have become “saints” who sit at the hand of god and can intercede on behalf of people, people have been spoken to by Mary, etc. The guidance so received would make their “god” fundamentally different. But they get to decide what kinds of variances are minor disagreements and what kinds create fundamental differences. It’s not for you (or me) to decree that they must regard these differences as analogous – perhaps they see the Catholics as simply confused and the Muslims as fundamentally wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/78 "2015-12-17T20:35:30Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, a shift in composition would be transsubstantiation. And evangelicals don’t believe in that. 😉 Only a fundamental shift in the _substance_. A fundamental shift in the accidents wouldn’t. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/79 "2015-12-17T20:37:30Z")
> [@](#): > > But they get to decide what kinds of variances are minor disagreements and what kinds create fundamental differences. Well, it might be; Wheaton receives federal funds. In unrelated news, it just occurred to me that this is the same school that piggybacked on the Little Sisters of the Poor SCOTUS decision about the contraception mandate. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/80 "2015-12-17T21:11:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But they get to decide what kinds of variances are minor disagreements and what kinds create fundamental differences. It’s not for you (or me) to decree that they must regard these differences as analogous – perhaps they see the Catholics as simply confused and the Muslims as fundamentally wrong. Certainly. However, it is still relevant to point out that the choice lacks any internally consistent logic. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651.md?page=5)