# Professor at CHristian college suspended for her outspoken support of Muslims **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 17, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651 "2015-12-17T01:11:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/121 "2015-12-18T12:49:28Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > There is no such rule. There is also no rule that anti-Semitic should mean only anti-Jewish. But de facto it does, weak attempts to apply it to anti-Arab bigotry on linguistic grounds aside. History and perception tend to trump pure linguistics. > > Like I said it is considered archaic if you aren’t some dusty, 1950’s-vintage British academician ;). And some folks find it mildly offensive. Like _Oriental_ for East Asian folks, it has gone out of style. Historically and linguistically, “Mohammedan” is an old-fashioned word for “Muslim.” Historically and linguistically, it carries no connotation that Muslims worship Muhammad as a divine being in the same way that Christians worship Jesus. Whether it is considered offensive or out-of-style is a different issue than this reason you’ve called it “problematic.” ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/122 "2015-12-18T13:00:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It is indisputable that Muslims and Jews worship the same God. Both faiths attribute the same traits to the Deity, and members of both faiths acknowledge this fact. Their only point of disagreement is on the precise list of prophets of that God. > > Christians consider themselves to worship the same God as Jews do. If one accepts that premise, then, Christians also worship the same God as Muslims do. > > Now, a Christian will doubtless claim that the Muslim understanding of that God’s nature is in some sense wrong or at least incomplete. But a Christian will say the exact same thing about a Jew’s understanding. To say that the Muslim understanding of God is sufficiently different to constitute being “a different god” is equivalent to saying the same thing of the Jewish god. > > What this college is saying is that the god they worship is not the God of Abraham. This is incorrect. What Wheaton is saying is that the central tenet of Christianity is that Jesus is God, and Islam rejects the deity of Jesus. Christians accept the Yahweh of the OT, and also accept Jesus as a manifestation of Yahweh (simplifying Trinity theology here). As these three faiths have evolved historically, each has based its premises upon additional divine…uh…clarifications. 🙂 Christianity generally takes the Old Testament Yahweh and gives him a son who is also fully Yahweh. Thus, Christians believe in the same God that Jews do, but Jews (who do not accept the deity of Jesus) do not believe in the same God that Christians do. Muslims generally take the OT Yahweh and add his revelations about the prophet Mohammed and the clarifications contained in the Qur’an. Thus, Muslims believe in the same God that Jews do, but Jews (who do not accept Mohammed as a prophet channeling Yahweh) do not believe in the same God that Muslims do. \ The game for promoters of a new monotheistic religion is to take the other guy’s chief and tweak him into a new chief. But for the previous faithful, there’s no way that tweaking leaves their God intact. Islam rejects the deity of Jesus. Jesus is “fully God” for Christians (summarizing a lot of theology for you here, and ignoring Francis for the moment). Anyone who thinks Muslims worship Jesus does not understand Islam (Mohammend gave Jesus prophet-hood, but not deity-hood). Hope that helps. Or you can just use science as a basis for epistemology. LOL ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/123 "2015-12-18T13:10:22Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > I was also pretty puzzled by this. I cannot see any religious reason, according to christian doctrine, for saying that Muslims don’t worship the same god. Christians believe Jesus is God. Are you able to find some examples of Muslim theologians who promote the idea that Jesus is God? Look, I’m not here to defend the Trinity, or any other theology. But there is a fundamental difference between Muslims and Christians (as well as Jews and Christians) over whether or not Jesus is God. If you demote Jesus, you are not worshiping the same God. You can’t have Christianity without the Trinity. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/124 "2015-12-18T13:23:41Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Christians believe Jesus is God. > > Are you able to find some examples of Muslim theologians who promote the idea that Jesus is God? > > Look, I’m not here to defend the Trinity, or any other theology. > > But there is a fundamental difference between Muslims and Christians (as well as Jews and Christians) over whether or not Jesus is God. If you demote Jesus, you are not worshiping the same God. You can’t have Christianity without the Trinity. The LDS are not the only non-trinitarian Christians. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/125 "2015-12-18T13:32:58Z")
It seems to me BigT has this core observation, we can leave aside the typical pointless pedantry that is frequently had here over someone using a term that no one but the elderly and the prejudiced use among the westerners now in my experience, or inaccurate summaries of the islamic beliefs, this is the key > [@BigT](#): > > She didn’t say that Muslims are going to heaven. She said they worshiped the same God. As people have said upthread, this is no different than saying that those of the Jewish faith worship the same God, and that is a very common Evangelical statement. > … > > To be honest, as of right now, it appears to me that the college is lying about its motivations, and that is not good. By the logic they apply, if they have said the Jews worship the same God as them, then they are liars about their motivation, if they are consistent and deny the Jews worship the same God then they are consistent and not liars. > [@Monty](#): > > The LDS are not the only non-trinitarian Christians. The unitarians yes? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/126 "2015-12-18T14:04:39Z")
Since all of these religions are most likely made up, there isn’t actually a way to worship a “same God”. “God” is too poorly defined a concept to make many claims at all. This leaves looking at it historically, where Islam and Christianity are most certainly branches of the same tree. I think that’s good enough to count as the “same God” Wheaton College can legally do whatever they like. But this sort of thing does push them away from “credible university with a very Christian spin” into “whackadoodle” territory. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/127 "2015-12-18T14:25:13Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Wheaton College can legally do whatever they like. But this sort of thing does push them away from “credible university with a very Christian spin” into “whackadoodle” territory. They’re Literal Creationists… that already pushes them to being several light years away from “credible university”. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/128 "2015-12-18T14:36:01Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > Because the Catholics treat Jesus as God in the flesh, while the Mohammedans treat him as a man. Also, the Catholics, however wrong they may be also limit salvation as coming through Jesus (not forgetting the Mary/co-redemptrix [sp] business, but, that is just more of a perversion, rather than saying that Jesus was a swell guy who died, which violates the ENTIRE core of the Jesus theme. ) Jews think Jesus was just some fellow (assuming he existed at all), certainly not God. Yet most Christians believe they worship “the same god” as the Jews. _Assuming that is true_, it doesn’t make any logical sense for _these very same Christians_ to exclude the Muslim god as “the same”. If anything, the Muslims’ god is closer to the Christian one than the Jewish god is, on the Jesus score - at least in Islam, Jesus is a significant prophet. In summary, a three-way spilt (Jews, Christians, and Muslims all worship different gods) can be logically supported, but not a split that has Jews and Christians worshipping one god, and Muslims worshipping another. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/129 "2015-12-18T18:15:28Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > If you demote Jesus, you are not worshiping the same God. That is not true. If that was the case the Jewish god would be considered a different god, and that is clearly contrary to Christian teaching. Not believing in the divinity of Jesus makes you not a Christian, it does not mean you worship a different god. > [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > You can’t have Christianity without the Trinity. Again, just because Muslims (and Jews) are not Christian, does not mean they worship a different god. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/130 "2015-12-18T19:09:36Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > You can’t have Christianity without the Trinity. Over last 2 millennia or so there have been as many Xs in “You can’t have Christianity without X” as there have been Christian sects. But the (almost) universal common denominator in all of them is “You can’t have Christianity without believing in the divinity of Jesus” ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/131 "2015-12-18T19:26:35Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > They’re Literal Creationists… that already pushes them to being several light years away from “credible university”. Not sure about that first clause but, they’re pretty well regarded nationally. [ul] [li]Forbes magazine ranked Wheaton College 86th in its annual list of 650 top undergraduate institutions[/li][li]The 2015 U.S. News & World Report America’s Best Colleges ranks Wheaton 57 among its 174 Best National Liberal Arts Colleges.[/li][/ul] [http://www.wheaton.edu/Media-Center/Media-Relations/Resources-for-Media/Wheaton-College-in-the-Rankings](http://www.wheaton.edu/Media-Center/Media-Relations/Resources-for-Media/Wheaton-College-in-the-Rankings) ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/132 "2015-12-18T19:49:11Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Not sure about that first clause but, they’re pretty well regarded nationally. > > [ul] > [li]Forbes magazine ranked Wheaton College 86th in its annual list of 650 top undergraduate institutions[/li][li]The 2015 U.S. News & World Report America’s Best Colleges ranks Wheaton 57 among its 174 Best National Liberal Arts Colleges.[/li][/ul] > > [http://www.wheaton.edu/Media-Center/Media-Relations/Resources-for-Media/Wheaton-College-in-the-Rankings](http://www.wheaton.edu/Media-Center/Media-Relations/Resources-for-Media/Wheaton-College-in-the-Rankings) Wheaton bills itself as a Liberal Arts college but does offer Biology courses. “God’s creation” is mentioned on [the page where classes are listed](http://www.wheaton.edu/Academics/Departments/Biology/Courses)–but several include evolution. And there’s nothing at all about “Intelligent Design.” The [Community Covenant](http://www.wheaton.edu/About-Wheaton/Community-Covenant) page refers to Biblical Standards in living–but doesn’t mention Biblical Inerrancy–as the Southern Baptists do. I find this suspension troubling–[as do some of the Wheaton community](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-wheaton-college-hijab-larycia-hawkins-students-travel-20151218-story.html). As I wrote earlier, it’s not a dump like BJU. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/133 "2015-12-18T19:57:07Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > > [@Monty](#): > > > > The LDS are not the only non-trinitarian Christians. > > The unitarians yes? Also the Watchtower Society / Jehovah’s Witnesses. Probably several others. ---
**Author:** ![Annadroid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@Annadroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annadroid)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/134 "2015-12-18T20:15:57Z")
Fine trappings does not necessarily make a fine person (or college). But I am sure Wheaton is ok as far as colleges go. I think big big business, religions, and politics cause too much trouble in our species. There are almost 8 billion people on the planet and I think that at least 70% (approximate ratio of adults) should develop their own beliefs and keep them private. People should be able to do as we please as long as it does not greatly hinder someone else doing what they please. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Annadroid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@Annadroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annadroid)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/135 "2015-12-18T20:22:04Z")
Oh, yeah, and about the topic: it seems as if the college does not like debate upon its founding principles. On the other hand, the professor should be aware that as a staff member of the college, what she may do even in her personal life may have an effect on the college. She boobooed, she pays. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/136 "2015-12-18T21:06:35Z")
> [@Annadroid](#): > > the professor should be aware that as a staff member of the college, what she may do even in her personal life may have an effect on the college. She boobooed, she pays. The point of the OP is that nothing she said is remotely against orthodox Christian doctrine. She didn’t say she believed Islamic teachings are compatible with Christian teachings, she just said they “worship the same God” ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/137 "2015-12-18T21:43:08Z")
Before founding Islam Mohamad spent time with both Christian and Jewish communities and some of the teachings of both groups were incorporated in the founding of Islam, this explains why Islam kneels before a Abrahamic God ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/138 "2015-12-19T01:04:02Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > As another anahronism I remember when I was a teenager the preferred spelling was often _Moslem_ ( I still remember losing half a point for writing _Muslim_ in a HS class quiz which my history teacher insisted was a spelling only used by American black converts ). But these days that has become uncommon as well. I just probably wouldn’t bother being an annoying pedant about that one, because I don’t think it offends anybody ;). Yeah, circa 2001 one of my master’s thesis committee members made me change spelling throughout my draft from Moslem to Muslim (except for direct quotes from sources). My topic related to a primarily Muslim-inhabited area, but was not religious, _per se._ “Mohammedan” I think would have made him send me back to the drawing board. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/139 "2015-12-19T01:04:31Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Also the Watchtower Society / Jehovah’s Witnesses. Probably several others. [Oneness Pentecostals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneness_Pentecostalism) and Christian Science. You are not in the Christian _mainstream_ if you’re not Trinitarian, but you’re still a Christian, just a misguided heretic one; in the old days at least they could try and beat it out of ya… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651/140 "2015-12-19T01:11:26Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > But there is a fundamental difference between Muslims and Christians (as well as Jews and Christians) over whether or not Jesus is God. If you demote Jesus, you are not worshiping the same God. You can’t have Christianity without the Trinity. And somehow I am reminded of a visit to [the Russian Orthodox monastery at Sergiev Posad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergiyev_Posad) back in 1995. We were there on the Feast of the Trinity and had been cautioned by our group leader to dress respectfully, cover our heads and shoulders and legs, prepare for lots of incense and serious hunched-over little old Russian babushkas who remembered a more observant Orthodox time before the Russian Revolution, etc. When we arrived, we found lots of 20-something Russian chicks in spandex pants and tank tops, and a rather carnival atmosphere. I had asked our (American, Slavic linguistics professor) group leader what the Feast of the Trinity was about, and he confessed that he really didn’t know the details, and I should approach one of the little old babushkas when we got there and ask. So I did. The answer? “Oh, you know, the Trinity. Jesus, Mary, Joseph…” Even my Jewish agnostic self knew more than that. Sheesh. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/professor-at-christian-college-suspended-for-her-outspoken-support-of-muslims/740651.md?page=8)