# Progressive Apologism for Islam: why? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2016, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028 "2016-07-16T05:49:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/41 "2016-07-16T10:49:57Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > How do you plan on proving all of that, you lying sack of dung? On the backwards/repressive part, you can go to Freedom House, ILGA, see for yourself. On the terrorism/extremism, all you have to do is pay attention to current events. Sorry for being truthful to myself, not being guilty about being American, and honouring liberty and hating evil. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/42 "2016-07-16T10:52:09Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > On the backwards/repressive part, you can go to Freedom House, ILGA, see for yourself. On the terrorism/extremism, all you have to do is pay attention to current events. So you got nothing. > [@](#): > > Sorry for being truthful to myself, not being guilty about being American, and honouring liberty and hating evil. I’d venture to say that I’ve personally done a lot more to honor liberty as an American than you pretend to have done. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/43 "2016-07-16T10:53:40Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > … > Typical communist America-hating tripe. America has liberated more people than any country in history. Who raped German Nazism and Soviet Communism again? Actually, our Comrades were indispensable in vanquishing Nazi Germany. (And your use of “raped” would make me think less of you. If my opinion could get any worse.) ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/44 "2016-07-16T10:56:48Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Actually, our Comrades were indispensable in vanquishing Nazi Germany. > > (And your use of “raped” would make me think less of you. If my opinion could get any worse.) while this thread is about the constant denial/obfuscation about Islam-inspired extremism and progressives convincing themselves Islam is some bastion of progressivism, you do know that the US supplied weapons to the USSR in the years before we entered the war while the Bolsheviks were bogged down, and the main reason the Soviets suffered so bad was because Stalin purged the army and the early warners (see [“In the Court of the Red Czar” by Simon Montefiore](https://www.amazon.com/Stalin-Court-Simon-Sebag-Montefiore/dp/1400076781)), right? ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/45 "2016-07-16T10:58:23Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > [Oh really?](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/dfbc18732f4f4e8797009fbae5b8f934/french-security-chiefs-meet-paris-nice-boulevard-reopens) Yes really. As both Kobal and I are francophones, we can follow very easily the actual information from the French inquiry and there is no clear evidence of this person having any connection with the DAESH. It may emerge but there is nothing so far to say that he was anything beyond the mentally ill who latched on to some internet propaganda by himself. The DAESH claiming post-facto (and not even being able to cite the name they do not know) is only the opportunism on their part to try to boost up their apparent size and reach and draw in more recruits as they slowly fail in reality… Funny, you do their water-carrying for them… but the hateful extremist bigots do tend to feed off of each other, as the Director of the DGSI has warned. > [@](#): > > I never said all Muslims are terrorists, Indeed in fact you imply the collective guilt and you engage in the typical language of the bigotry, with the sliding half claims and lying and the half truths to smear, lacking any courage to say the real thinking. > [@](#): > > Typical communist America-hating tripe. America has liberated more people than any country in history. Who raped German Nazism and Soviet Communism again? Funny it is like a self-parody. but what do we expect from the person who claims transgenderism is a communist plot and excuses the civilian deaths in the Atomic bombings with the claim of saving the Japanese from the Soviets… ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/46 "2016-07-16T11:06:59Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > [Oh really?](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/dfbc18732f4f4e8797009fbae5b8f934/french-security-chiefs-meet-paris-nice-boulevard-reopens) Yes really. You can trust me, I invented the lightbulb. Well, I say so, so clearly you must believe I did. > [@](#): > > Typical communist America-hating tripe. America has liberated more people than any country in history. Who raped German Nazism and Soviet Communism again? Sure liberated the \*shit \*out of Iraq, didn’t y’all ? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/47 "2016-07-16T11:08:38Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Actually, our Comrades were indispensable in vanquishing Nazi Germany. In his Circus Mirror view of the world such things disappear, the USA is the Action Movie hero. he even uses saving the Japanese from Communism as a praise to the USA, and hides in silence from the reality it was the Americans who pushed the Soviets into the Asian side of the Second World War - the bootstrapped excuse this person is literally perfectly contemptible. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/48 "2016-07-16T11:10:49Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Sure liberated the \*shit \*out of Iraq, didn’t y’all ? :rolleyes: That is 100% the fault of the muslim sand negroes who were not up to task of accepting the good christian american enlightenment. like the viet-namese and the cambodians. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/49 "2016-07-16T11:15:16Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Why are so many progressives apologists for Islam and obfuscate when people mention the problems that arise in the present day because of Islam and the radicalism which emanates from it as a motivation? Religion is a reflection of the culture. The religion of Islam is as different as the cultures that it is apart of. Religion is only relevant in that it’s used as a tool to organize and manipulate people into committing political acts of violence. By understanding the religion to be a symptom and not much of a cause, I can focus my efforts on identifying the key characteristics of people who are likely to terrorize and likely not to. For example, you will never catch me warning a flight attendant about a fellow passenger because they used “God willing” in a sentence or is swarthy and doing calculus. Also I don’t shit my pants when I see a Muslim pray. But let’s say I am completely wrong, what will be accomplished once we adopt whatever point of view you have? Inform me of the practical benefits of suppressing my beliefs and adopting your way of thinking. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/50 "2016-07-16T11:57:27Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > You wanna hurl insults? Fine, I can do the same; unlike you, I don’t apologize for evil, like Radical Islam, and I don’t put my head in the sand as thousands of people are brutally murdered, tortured, maimed, honor killed, stoned, beheaded, etc. nor do I condone the America-hating terrorist Palestinian shit of the Earth, [who cheered on 9/11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMOZvbYJMvU), who blow themselves up, hijack planes, manipulate the world, aligned themselves with evil communism during the Cold War, and I don’t join in the other Islamists, communists, and both who love the Terrorstinian anti-Israel cause too. Oh, what a brave keyboard warrior you are. And what exactly are _you_ doing about any of this, aside from bitching about it on an Internet message board? I don’t hate Israel, and I think that Islam, like all religions, is a bunch of hooey. What I don’t believe is a) oppressing vast numbers of people based on the actions of a few; b) that ‘radical Islam’ presents a greater threat to western civilization than people like you, who seem all too willing embrace said oppression for the sake of some vanishingly small increment of ‘safety’. Not agreeing to express exactly the same bigoted opinions as you seem to have is not ‘apologizing’ for Islam. Twit. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/51 "2016-07-16T12:06:06Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Progressives “paint with a broad brush” all the time about Christians; yet when its done against Muslims, they get all pissy. > > Also, in reply to your second quote, while yes, other religions have brutal texts, the incidence of terror attacks in the name/cause of Christianity and Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism are far less than the incidents of terror attacks in the name of Islam. Governments around the globe spend billions to fight the latter, not the former. Jews don’t have enough population. If a similar percentage of Jews decided to become terrorists it would be a terror group of 6 people. Buddhists and Hindus have both done terrible things over the years, but honestly it’s the Christians that have been the worst. The thing is they are, by and large, the ruling class so their actions aren’t seen as terrorism. But… Christian’s tried to ethnically cleanse Europe in the 1940s. There was that whole Bosnia thing more recently. The KKK is an active Christian terrorist organization which kills people every year right here in the United States. Of course there is that whole issue with Northern Ireland. In fact in the British Isles there has been ongoing Christian terrorism for about 600 years. It’s been pretty terrible. It was worse a while ago, but it was very real until very recently. Then if you want to go back into history the examples become more obvious with Christians actively trying to conquer the globe via colonization. Also Virginia Tech, Arora Colorado, Newtown CT, Charles Manson, Jonestown. All examples of Christian extremists. Lunatics, sure, but Christian lunatics. If you are counting Orlando and San Bernardino, you have to count them too. Now before you go and start taking this apart point by point, I am going to tell you that I don’t particularly care if you feel like you can refute any of this because I don’t believe Christians are evil only that evil things… Terrorist acts (Timothy McVeigh) have been committed by Christians. That doesn’t make Christianity a violent or dangerous religion (though talk to some aethists about that some time) it just means some Christians are dangerous. Like, because humans are occasionally dangerous. If you get them into groups they will start joining together to create an “us” that will be pitted against a “them”. The problem is you are deciding that the group that has decided you are “them” and needs to be fought is much larger than it really is. Like an order of magnitude larger. If you want to fight “them” (a debatable idea, but probably an inevitable one) you need to understand who “they” actually are. Deciding that all of Islam is them then only… Maybe 5% actually is, is inherently dangerous. Not just for the rest of Islam but for you also. Before long if you decide that all 100% are them the other 95% will decide you are right. They also might be joined by the rest of the non Christian world in deciding you are actually the problem and, frankly, you are vastly outnumbered. Ethnic cleansing rarely ends well for anyone. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/52 "2016-07-16T12:26:38Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Why are so many progressives apologists for Islam and obfuscate when people mention the problems that arise in the present day because of Islam and the radicalism which emanates from it as a motivation? > > Is it because they think doing so will make Americans less likely to go to war, even if it means letting terrorists attack? > > Is it because its easy to buy into the idea that the history of the world is the white north oppressing the “brown” south? > > Is it because they think Islamic radicalism wouldn’t exist but for the Jewish State of Israel? > > Is it because since GWB launched a war on terror, the want to see the world opposite him? > > I ask because Islamic societies on the whole are far more draconian and socially conservative than the most RW nutties here in the US. > > This stuff really makes “progressives” look like a joke; I used to be one back in the 2000s, but can’t call myself one anymore, largely over this, and their hatred of Israel, which I suspect colours their views on Islamic radicalism. Your analysis of progressives continues to be mostly false and idiotic, probably because you’re an ignorant, bigoted piece of shit. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/53 "2016-07-16T12:48:54Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Also Virginia Tech, Arora Colorado, Newtown CT, Charles Manson, Jonestown. All examples of Christian extremists. Lunatics, sure, but Christian lunatics. If you are counting Orlando and San Bernardino, you have to count them too. There you go again comparing apples to oranges; those attacks you cite were not expressly done in the name and cause of Christianity. 9/11, 7/7, 3/11, Fort Hood, San Bernadino, Paris, Brussels, Nice ([and ISIS has now claimed responsibility](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-attacks-nice-raid-idUSKCN0ZW0DT)), and a huge amount of others elsewhere were all done in the name and cause of Islam. It’s not about what religion terrorists happen to have been raised, or practice at the moment; its about what the motivation and impetus for the terror is. ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/54 "2016-07-16T12:50:01Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > If you want to fight “them” (a debatable idea, but probably an inevitable one) you need to understand who “they” actually are. Deciding that all of Islam is them then only… Maybe 5% actually is, is inherently dangerous. Not just for the rest of Islam but for you also. Before long if you decide that all 100% are them the other 95% will decide you are right. They also might be joined by the rest of the non Christian world in deciding you are actually the problem and, frankly, you are vastly outnumbered. > > Ethnic cleansing rarely ends well for anyone. He isn’t just criticizing Islam for terrorism. What percentage of the world’s Muslims support equal rights for women, gays and apostates? (Or just minimal rights such as the right to not be killed in the latter two cases.) I’ll bet it’s significantly less than the 95% you’re implying. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/55 "2016-07-16T12:50:41Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > He isn’t just criticizing Islam for terrorism. > > What percentage of the world’s Muslims support equal rights for women, gays and apostates? (Or just minimal rights such as the right to not be killed in the latter two cases.) I’ll bet it’s significantly less than the 95% you’re implying. American Muslims are more supportive of gay rights than American evangelical Christians and Mormons. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/56 "2016-07-16T12:56:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > American Muslims are more supportive of gay rights than American evangelical Christians and Mormons. Muslims are a religious group, while Mormons and evangelicals sects of a religious group. It’s pretty sad you can only compare Muslims to sects, because if you compared all Americans who practice any sort of Christianity to all Muslims who practice any sort of Islam, Islam wouldn’t look as good. The comparison fails too since the Muslim population isn’t anywhere close to the evangelical/Mormon populations here, thankfully. Also, we’re not facing a potentially large influx of new evangelicals or Mormons from abroad, whereas we are with Islam. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/57 "2016-07-16T13:04:03Z")
My special pleading-meter just blasted across the room and punched a hole through the wall. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/58 "2016-07-16T13:04:27Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Muslims are a religious group, while Mormons and evangelicals sects of a religious group. It’s pretty sad you can only compare Muslims to sects, because if you compared all Americans who practice any sort of Christianity to all Muslims who practice any sort of Islam, Islam wouldn’t look as good. The comparison fails too since the Muslim population isn’t anywhere close to the evangelical/Mormon populations here, thankfully. > > Also, we’re not facing a potentially large influx of new evangelicals or Mormons from abroad, whereas we are with Islam. If you prove that you know anything at all about sects of Islam maybe we can get more detailed. This point you think you are making is a knock against your argument not for it. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/59 "2016-07-16T13:07:27Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > He isn’t just criticizing Islam for terrorism. > > What percentage of the world’s Muslims support equal rights for women, gays and apostates? (Or just minimal rights such as the right to not be killed in the latter two cases.) I’ll bet it’s significantly less than the 95% you’re implying. NM. When come back bring cite. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/60 "2016-07-16T13:10:04Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > There you go again comparing apples to oranges; those attacks you cite were not expressly done in the name and cause of Christianity. Sure they were. Well, Ok no all of them, but most. Jonestown, Hitler, Bosnia, Cossacks cleansing Jews, The troubles, the crusades, planned parenthood bombing, the kkk, etc etc. But like I said in my post, not the point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028.md?page=4)