# Progressive Apologism for Islam: why? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2016, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028 "2016-07-16T05:49:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/101 "2016-07-16T20:26:24Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Whatever else this guy was, it’s becoming pretty clear that he was a major asshole. Do assholes here feel obligated to apologize for him? Perhaps they should [The AP gives in English the profile emerging:](https://ca.news.yahoo.com/france-attacker-called-volatile-showed-no-jihadist-links-111905500.html) > [@](#): > > At an apartment bloc in the Quartier des Abattoirs, on the outskirts of Nice, neighbours described the father of three as a volatile man, prone to drinking and womanizing, and in the process of divorcing his wife. > > His father said Bouhlel had violent episodes during which “he broke everything he found around him.” > > “Each time he had a crisis, we took him to the doctor who gave him medication,” Mohamed Mondher Lahouaiej Bouhlel told BFM television. > > His son hadn’t visited Tunisia in four years and hadn’t stayed in contact with his family, he said. > > “What I know is that he didn’t pray, he didn’t go to the mosque, he had no ties to religion,” said the father, noting that Bouhlel didn’t respect the Islamic fasting rituals during the month of Ramadan. > > In a news conference Friday, hours after the attack in which 84 people were killed and 202 were wounded, prosecutors said they had found no links to the Islamic State extremist group. > > Bouhlel had had a series of run-ins with the law for threatening behaviour, violence and theft over the past six years. In March, he was given a six-month suspended sentence by a Nice court for a road-rage incident. If this person were a Christian the excuses would be limitless from these same bigotted characters about how this could not be connected with his religion. But since he is of the immigrant Muslim background, it is Oh No Sharia Jihad Doom hook to justify their desire for the cleansing… ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/102 "2016-07-16T22:10:49Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Extremist Muslims suck, and the extreme versions of the religion suck. The version of the religion that most American Muslims practice, and many Muslims in various other countries, is as peaceful as any other religion, and perfectly compatible with being American. What you call “extreme versions of the religion” are actually the mainstream. Most Muslim countries have some level of oppression of women, apostates, gays and other groups. American Muslims are a small minority of Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/103 "2016-07-16T22:21:05Z")
Oh the Wiki scholars who tell us about how Saudi Arabia = the Islamic world… in their deep knowlege from the hate site readings. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/104 "2016-07-17T00:35:10Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Why are so many progressives apologists for Islam and obfuscate when people mention the problems that arise in the present day because of Islam and the radicalism which emanates from it as a motivation? > > Is it because they think doing so will make Americans less likely to go to war, even if it means letting terrorists attack? > > Is it because its easy to buy into the idea that the history of the world is the white north oppressing the “brown” south? > > Is it because they think Islamic radicalism wouldn’t exist but for the Jewish State of Israel? > > Is it because since GWB launched a war on terror, the want to see the world opposite him? > > I ask because Islamic societies on the whole are far more draconian and socially conservative than the most RW nutties here in the US. > > This stuff really makes “progressives” look like a joke; I used to be one back in the 2000s, but can’t call myself one anymore, largely over this, and their hatred of Israel, which I suspect colours their views on Islamic radicalism. Because you say that the problem arises because of Islam. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/105 "2016-07-17T01:00:45Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Oh the Wiki scholars who tell us about how Saudi Arabia = the Islamic world… in their deep knowlege from the hate site readings. 60% of Egyptians support the death penalty for being an ex-Muslim. 60% of Palestinians support the death penalty for being an ex-Muslim. 80% of Afghans support the death penalty for being an ex-Muslim. ([Pages 15 and 55](http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf)) These are not just a few bad apples, or just the kingdom that controls the cultural heart of their religion. These are entire countries where you have a better than even chance that anyone you speak to is in favour of a new Holocaust. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/106 "2016-07-17T01:32:45Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > 60% of Egyptians support the death penalty for being an ex-Muslim. 60% of Palestinians support the death penalty for being an ex-Muslim. 80% of Afghans support the death penalty for being an ex-Muslim. ([Pages 15 and 55](http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf)) > > These are not just a few bad apples, or just the kingdom that controls the cultural heart of their religion. These are entire countries where you have a better than even chance that anyone you speak to is in favour of a new Holocaust. just imagine if that were a data figure any non-Muslim group, what the left would say… ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/107 "2016-07-17T01:40:17Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > 60% of Egyptians support the death penalty for being an ex-Muslim. . . . Okay, yes, that’s bad. We need to work to change this, to show them that this is a bad social policy. Meanwhile, how many of those Egyptians (and so on) have actually killed anyone? How many have planted a bomb, or fired a weapon, or swung a cleaver, in order to kill an ex-believer? How many are just flapping their gums – like the Americans who want the death penalty for providing abortions but who haven’t actually set fire to a medical clinic? I’m far less concerned for their bad opinions than for their bad actions, and only a small minority of Egyptians (and others) have committed violent crimes. (And if you introduce the word “correlated,” I think I’ll need an antacid.) ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/108 "2016-07-17T01:44:39Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Okay, yes, that’s bad. We need to work to change this, to show them that this is a bad social policy. > > Meanwhile, how many of those Egyptians (and so on) have actually killed anyone? How many have planted a bomb, or fired a weapon, or swung a cleaver, in order to kill an ex-believer? How many are just flapping their gums – like the Americans who want the death penalty for providing abortions but who haven’t actually set fire to a medical clinic? > > I’m far less concerned for their bad opinions than for their bad actions, and only a small minority of Egyptians (and others) have committed violent crimes. > > (And if you introduce the word “correlated,” I think I’ll need an antacid.) The problem is that that makes many of that majority them easily radicalizable. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/109 "2016-07-17T02:05:09Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > The problem is that that makes many of that majority them easily radicalizable. Got any proof that the majority are easily radicalized? ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/110 "2016-07-17T02:41:59Z")
I’ll just say what my conservative friends say so often: “I don’t believe the polls.” ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/111 "2016-07-17T10:16:29Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Sorry, I have no idea what point you are trying to get across here. Try again. Certainly. I said: > [@](#): > > The evils that have grown out of Islam aren’t limited to terrorism and would have most of this board’s members in a state of apoplexy were anyone even to suggest we adopt the same practices here. Why they’ve chosen to defend it is anyone’s guess. From this you somehow managed to extrapolate that I was saying “most of the board’s posters” are okay with the aforementioned evils and are defending them. What they’re defending is the religion that’s given rise to these sexist, homophobic and punitive attitudes which have wide support among the Muslim populace in the majority of the world’s Islamic countries. You guys are always trotting out that Muslim extremists are ‘extreme’ and constantly reminding us that Islamic terrorists are outliers, but the truth is that most of the Islamic populations of most Muslim countries support the very evils I outlined above, evils which, like I said, would have all of this country’s liberals in a state of apoplexy were anyone to suggest their adoption here. For your edification (and that of **Ramira** , who inexplicably has chosen to isolate Saudi Arabia as the presumptive target of my remarks), I present the following comprehensive assessment of widespread Muslim attitudes and support for many practices we find abhorrent but which have widespread support in most of the world’s Islamic countries. You’ll note that Saudi Arabia among a few other brutal countries have been left out of the study because asking its citizens for their opinion on these matters was deemed to sensitive (:rolleyes:) or (most probably) too dangerous. So you can add even more Islamic support to the numbers in Pew’s study because Saudi Arabia and few other Islamic countries have been deliberately left out of the study. > **[Preface](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-preface/)** > > This report examines the social and political views of Muslims around the world. It is based on public opinion surveys conducted by the Pew Research And to be fair, there is considerable information included that reflects favorably on many of the world’s Muslims. But still, you’ll learn from this study that: - The Muslim populations in most of the world’s Islamic countries overwhelmingly believe Sharia law should be the law of the land. - That significant numbers (generally from 29% to 50%) believe Sharia law should apply to all of their country’s citizens, not just Muslims. - That among those believing Sharia law should be the law of the land, support for whipping and lopping off hands ranges from 28% to 88%, with 9 of the 20 countries listed coming in at 50% or more in support of these practices. - That support for stoning as the punishment for adultery garners between 21% to 89% support among those favoring Sharia law in the twenty countries surveyed. 11 of the 20 listed show support for these practices in the 40% to 89% range. - That in 9 of the 20 countries surveyed, support for the death penalty for apostasy ranges from 42% to 89%. And in the remaining 11 countries it garners from 4% to 29% support. - That the belief that suicide bombings can be often or sometimes justified, 11 of the 20 countries listed come in at 10% to 40% who hold this belief. - That of the 36 countries surveyed, disapproval of homosexual behavior in 29 of them are in the high 80% to almost 100% range, with the remaining disapproval rates being in the 60% - 79% range. I won’t go through the entire survey but you get the idea. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/112 "2016-07-17T10:51:23Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Certainly. I said: From this you somehow managed to extrapolate that I was saying “most of the board’s posters” are okay with the aforementioned evils and are defending them. What they’re defending is the religion that’s given rise to these sexist, homophobic and punitive attitudes which have wide support among the Muslim populace in the majority of the world’s Islamic countries. You guys are always trotting out that Muslim extremists are ‘extreme’ and constantly reminding us that Islamic terrorists are outliers, but the truth is that most of the Islamic populations of most Muslim countries support the very evils I outlined above, evils which, like I said, would have all of this country’s liberals in a state of apoplexy were anyone to suggest their adoption here. > > For your edification (and that of **Ramira** , who inexplicably has chosen to isolate Saudi Arabia as the presumptive target of my remarks), I present the following comprehensive assessment of widespread Muslim attitudes and support for many practices we find abhorrent but which have widespread support in most of the world’s Islamic countries. You’ll note that Saudi Arabia among a few other brutal countries have been left out of the study because asking its citizens for their opinion on these matters was deemed to sensitive (:rolleyes:) or (most probably) too dangerous. So you can add even more Islamic support to the numbers in Pew’s study because Saudi Arabia and few other Islamic countries have been deliberately left out of the study. > > [Preface | Pew Research Center](http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-preface/) > > And to be fair, there is considerable information included that reflects favorably on many of the world’s Muslims. But still, you’ll learn from this study that: > > - The Muslim populations in most of the world’s Islamic countries overwhelmingly believe Sharia law should be the law of the land. > > - That significant numbers (generally from 29% to 50%) believe Sharia law should apply to all of their country’s citizens, not just Muslims. > > - That among those believing Sharia law should be the law of the land, support for whipping and lopping off hands ranges from 28% to 88%, with 9 of the 20 countries listed coming in at 50% or more in support of these practices. > > - That support for stoning as the punishment for adultery garners between 21% to 89% support among those favoring Sharia law in the twenty countries surveyed. 11 of the 20 listed show support for these practices in the 40% to 89% range. > > - That in 9 of the 20 countries surveyed, support for the death penalty for apostasy ranges from 42% to 89%. And in the remaining 11 countries it garners from 4% to 29% support. > > - That the belief that suicide bombings can be often or sometimes justified, 11 of the 20 countries listed come in at 10% to 40% who hold this belief. > > - That of the 36 countries surveyed, disapproval of homosexual behavior in 29 of them are in the high 80% to almost 100% range, with the remaining disapproval rates being in the 60% - 79% range. > > I won’t go through the entire survey but you get the idea. thanks for that great summary. Islam is communist savagery, and the apologists for it today are no different than the Bolshevik lovers of the Cold War; no moral compass, everyone is equal regardless of merit (Jews vs Palestinian Islam terrorists is a good example), America/Israel are all that is wrong with the world, capitalism is evil, etc. etc. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/113 "2016-07-17T11:11:42Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Certainly. I said: From this you somehow managed to extrapolate that I was saying “most of the board’s posters” are okay with the aforementioned evils and are defending them. What they’re defending is the religion that’s given rise to these sexist, homophobic and punitive attitudes which have wide support among the Muslim populace in the majority of the world’s Islamic countries. You guys are always trotting out that Muslim extremists are ‘extreme’ and constantly reminding us that Islamic terrorists are outliers, but the truth is that most of the Islamic populations of most Muslim countries support the very evils I outlined above, evils which, like I said, would have all of this country’s liberals in a state of apoplexy were anyone to suggest their adoption here. > > For your edification (and that of **Ramira** , who inexplicably has chosen to isolate Saudi Arabia as the presumptive target of my remarks), I present the following comprehensive assessment of widespread Muslim attitudes and support for many practices we find abhorrent but which have widespread support in most of the world’s Islamic countries. You’ll note that Saudi Arabia among a few other brutal countries have been left out of the study because asking its citizens for their opinion on these matters was deemed to sensitive (:rolleyes:) or (most probably) too dangerous. So you can add even more Islamic support to the numbers in Pew’s study because Saudi Arabia and few other Islamic countries have been deliberately left out of the study. > > [Preface | Pew Research Center](http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-preface/) > > And to be fair, there is considerable information included that reflects favorably on many of the world’s Muslims. But still, you’ll learn from this study that: > > - The Muslim populations in most of the world’s Islamic countries overwhelmingly believe Sharia law should be the law of the land. > > - That significant numbers (generally from 29% to 50%) believe Sharia law should apply to all of their country’s citizens, not just Muslims. > > - That among those believing Sharia law should be the law of the land, support for whipping and lopping off hands ranges from 28% to 88%, with 9 of the 20 countries listed coming in at 50% or more in support of these practices. > > - That support for stoning as the punishment for adultery garners between 21% to 89% support among those favoring Sharia law in the twenty countries surveyed. 11 of the 20 listed show support for these practices in the 40% to 89% range. > > - That in 9 of the 20 countries surveyed, support for the death penalty for apostasy ranges from 42% to 89%. And in the remaining 11 countries it garners from 4% to 29% support. > > - That the belief that suicide bombings can be often or sometimes justified, 11 of the 20 countries listed come in at 10% to 40% who hold this belief. > > - That of the 36 countries surveyed, disapproval of homosexual behavior in 29 of them are in the high 80% to almost 100% range, with the remaining disapproval rates being in the 60% - 79% range. > > I won’t go through the entire survey but you get the idea. Couldn’t all this be said of Christian countries a hundred, hell, even fifty years ago? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/114 "2016-07-17T11:13:00Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > thanks for that great summary. Islam is communist savagery, and the apologists for it today are no different than the Bolshevik lovers of the Cold War; no moral compass, everyone is equal regardless of merit (Jews vs Palestinian Islam terrorists is a good example), America/Israel are all that is wrong with the world, capitalism is evil, etc. etc. More bullshit fiction from an ignorant bigot. Stop helping ISIS, bigot. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/115 "2016-07-17T11:52:27Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > thanks for that great summary. Islam is communist savagery Out of curiosity, just how old are you ? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/116 "2016-07-17T11:54:39Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > Couldn’t all this be said of Christian countries a hundred, hell, even fifty years ago? Christianity of two hundred years ago would be a more accurate comparison. That would put you around the end of the Inquisition and the end of witch hunts. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/117 "2016-07-17T12:56:46Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Certainly. I said: From this you somehow managed to extrapolate that I was saying “most of the board’s posters” are okay with the aforementioned evils and are defending them. What they’re defending is the religion that’s given rise to these sexist, homophobic and punitive attitudes which have wide support among the Muslim populace in the majority of the world’s Islamic countries. You guys are always trotting out that Muslim extremists are ‘extreme’ and constantly reminding us that Islamic terrorists are outliers, but the truth is that most of the Islamic populations of most Muslim countries support the very evils I outlined above, evils which, like I said, would have all of this country’s liberals in a state of apoplexy were anyone to suggest their adoption here. > > For your edification (and that of **Ramira** , who inexplicably has chosen to isolate Saudi Arabia as the presumptive target of my remarks), I present the following comprehensive assessment of widespread Muslim attitudes and support for many practices we find abhorrent but which have widespread support in most of the world’s Islamic countries. You’ll note that Saudi Arabia among a few other brutal countries have been left out of the study because asking its citizens for their opinion on these matters was deemed to sensitive (:rolleyes:) or (most probably) too dangerous. So you can add even more Islamic support to the numbers in Pew’s study because Saudi Arabia and few other Islamic countries have been deliberately left out of the study. > > [Preface | Pew Research Center](http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-preface/) > > And to be fair, there is considerable information included that reflects favorably on many of the world’s Muslims. But still, you’ll learn from this study that: > > - The Muslim populations in most of the world’s Islamic countries overwhelmingly believe Sharia law should be the law of the land. > > - That significant numbers (generally from 29% to 50%) believe Sharia law should apply to all of their country’s citizens, not just Muslims. > > - That among those believing Sharia law should be the law of the land, support for whipping and lopping off hands ranges from 28% to 88%, with 9 of the 20 countries listed coming in at 50% or more in support of these practices. > > - That support for stoning as the punishment for adultery garners between 21% to 89% support among those favoring Sharia law in the twenty countries surveyed. 11 of the 20 listed show support for these practices in the 40% to 89% range. > > - That in 9 of the 20 countries surveyed, support for the death penalty for apostasy ranges from 42% to 89%. And in the remaining 11 countries it garners from 4% to 29% support. > > - That the belief that suicide bombings can be often or sometimes justified, 11 of the 20 countries listed come in at 10% to 40% who hold this belief. > > - That of the 36 countries surveyed, disapproval of homosexual behavior in 29 of them are in the high 80% to almost 100% range, with the remaining disapproval rates being in the 60% - 79% range. > > I won’t go through the entire survey but you get the idea. The world population of Muslims is approx. 1.6B, approx 23% of the world population. This map shows where the [majority of Muslims live around the world.](http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/gsi2-exec-map.png) The Pew numbers certainly show that there is not an abundance of good news to recommend Muslim sentiments towards western societies and cultures. That said, Muslim attitudes change dramatically when they are welcomed successfully into western societies, [like the United States](http://www.pewresearch.org/2007/05/22/muslim-americans-middle-class-and-mostly-mainstream/), where they become much more mainstream. But immigration of Muslims to western societies is trivial compared to those that are born, raised and live their entire lives in their own native countries. Typically, those countries suffer from poverty, oppressive regimes, marginal education and economic opportunities for most. To change hearts and minds of these populations is exceedingly difficult and there are no easy solutions. It’s going to take time, generations in many cases. In the meantime, the world will have to deal with the most radical terrorists on a case by case basis; proactively when possible and reactively when it isn’t. That’s the reality of the world and time in which we all live. Anyone advocating draconian measures such as isolationism and genocide is simply advocating for the same types of reprehensible policies as Islamic extremists and terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/118 "2016-07-17T14:22:16Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Christianity of two hundred years ago would be a more accurate comparison. That would put you around the end of the Inquisition and the end of witch hunts. Not necessarily, I’m sure that you can find places in the most well-developed Christina countries right this moment where things like “Should biblical law be reflected in current law?” or “Are you opposed to homosexuality?” Would give you a very similar percentage of positives. Anything, the point is, things change. It may take a long time and a lot of stable democracy to make them change, but things do change. ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/119 "2016-07-17T14:32:37Z")
Start posts like this: > [@wolfpup](#): > > How about "you’re an Islamophobic asshole who never … So I can stop reading right there and proceed to wasting my time on the next post! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Natural](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@Mr.Natural](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Natural)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028/120 "2016-07-17T14:43:51Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > The Pew numbers certainly show that there is not an abundance of good news to recommend Muslim sentiments towards western societies and cultures. That said, Muslim attitudes change dramatically when they are welcomed successfully into western societies, [like the United States](http://www.pewresearch.org/2007/05/22/muslim-americans-middle-class-and-mostly-mainstream/), where they become much more mainstream. > > . 51% of American Muslims want Sharia law. 25% ok with violence against Americans. > **[Shock Poll: 51% of U.S. Muslims Want Sharia; 25% Okay with Violence Against...](https://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/06/24/shock-poll-51-of-american-muslims-want-sharia-25-okay-with-violence-against-americans/)** > > The Center for Security Policy released a poll Tuesday that should give all Americans pause. The results show that a startling number of American Muslims, | [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressive-apologism-for-islam-why/760028.md?page=7)