# Progressives have NOT taken over the Democratic Party **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 13, 2019, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884 "2019-05-13T03:59:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/1 "2019-05-13T03:59:19Z")
No matter how many times they repeat the mantra that they have. And Biden’s big surge has been a wakeup call for those in the media who had been fooled (mostly by Twitter) into believing in their ascendance: > **[What Joe Biden Is Teaching Democrats About Democrats](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/what-joe-biden-is-teaching-democrats-about-democrats.html)** > > His apparent resurrection from relic to front-runner has illustrated a chasm between perception and reality about the party’s leftward shift. > [@](#): > > News accounts have emphasized the growing share of self-identified liberals in the party as well as the diminishing stigma of socialism among younger Democrats. But political parties are large groups of people, and they change very slowly. Socialism may be growing less unpopular, but it remains quite unpopular. In a recent poll, just 10 percent of Americans held a positive opinion of socialism, and 29 percent said it is compatible with American values (against 57 percent saying otherwise). While the liberal share of the Democratic electorate is rising, it’s only just caught up to the combined share of Democrats who call themselves moderate or conservative. A small majority of Democrats say they wish the party would move in a more moderate direction. > > In the New York Times, Frank Bruni suggested that Biden’s “party can’t get enough of the word progressive, but he’s regressive, symbolizing a step back to an administration past.” Yet, according to another recent poll, it seems most Democrats can get enough of the word progressive and also are quite fond of the administration in which Biden served: When Democrats were offered a choice of different ideological labels, “socialist” and “democratic socialist” each drew 1 and 6 percent, respectively, and “progressive Democrat” got 5 percent. Sixteen percent of respondents chose “moderate Democrat,” and 20 percent of them picked “Obama Democrat.” > > So why did the media spend the past few years getting the state of the Democratic Party so wrong? One reason is that a numbers of factions had an incentive to hype the rise of the left. The left itself came out of 2016 giddy with its conviction that Sanders lost to Hillary Clinton only out of inertia (or even, the more radical members of the movement claimed, party manipulation). Sanders had won the young, and therefore the future. > > In reality, Sanders received lots of votes from people who either appreciated his earnest persona or objected to Clinton for a variety of reasons, including her being too liberal. (Sanders ran up the vote in places like West Virginia and Oklahoma with many of the same conservative Democrats who had supported Clinton over Barack Obama in 2008. Both times, they were registering protest votes against the party and its presumptive nominee. The Sanders movement convinced itself that his success reflected an unsated demand for socialism. The rise of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez—young, nonwhite, native to social media—gave the movement the ideal image of its ambitions. **Their plan to take over the party involved repeating that they had already done so.** ) We have seen several iterations of this repetition right here on this board. Saying it doesn’t make it so, folks! ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/2 "2019-05-13T04:05:23Z")
> [@NYMAG](#): > > Their plan to take over the party involved repeating that they had already done so. …this was the plan? Really? Cite? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/3 "2019-05-13T04:35:24Z")
Not “that was their plan” like “in the secret progressive HQ, this set of talking points was distributed” but snarky, like “what was your plan, exactly—just tell everyone you already did it, apparently”. People have said it to me over and over: here, on Twitter, and on Facebook. “You’re stuck in the ‘90s, the party has moved on, catch up or get out of the way.” That sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/4 "2019-05-13T04:44:38Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Not “that was their plan” like “in the secret progressive HQ, this set of talking points was distributed” but snarky, like “what was your plan, exactly—just tell everyone you already did it, apparently”. People have said it to me over and over: here, on Twitter, and on Facebook. …perhaps people are “saying things to you over and over on twitter” but I would suggest the problem is that “you aren’t listening.” This isn’t the plan. It was never the plan. Not even in a “snarky-kind-of-way.” > [@](#): > > “You’re stuck in the ‘90s, the party has moved on, catch up or get out of the way.” That sort of thing. Can you provide a cite for anyone saying this to you on your twitter account? Or anything close to “that sort of thing?” Are you sure the message isn’t “You’re stuck in the ‘90s, the party **needs to move** on, catch up or get out of the way?" Because that’s a completely different message. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/5 "2019-05-13T05:56:39Z")
Yeah progressives have deluded themselves about how much support they have among among Democratic voters let alone the wider electorate. The problem is that that the leftmost 30% or so of the party has indeed moved sharply to the left over the last decade and much of the left commentariat has moved with them. This segment of the party has a disproportionate influence in setting the agenda of the party and shaping its wider public image. And on issues like reparations, immigration and abolishing private insurance it’s pushing the party in a direction increasingly at odds with the broader electorate which creates a serious danger for Democrats. Even if progressives don’t get their candidate they may push the eventual candidate into adopting unpopular positions. Alternatively, if the candidate resists them, progressives may just stay home and throw the election to the Republicans. The bottom line is that Democrats are much more ideologically divided than they were a decade ago and that is not a good thing for them. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/6 "2019-05-13T06:27:22Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > Yeah progressives have deluded themselves about how much support they have among among Democratic voters let alone the wider electorate. > > The problem is that that the leftmost 30% or so of the party has indeed moved sharply to the left over the last decade and much of the left commentariat has moved with them. Precisely. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/7 "2019-05-13T06:43:54Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Precisely. …which progressives have “have deluded themselves about how much support they have among among Democratic voters?” Can you give some examples of this delusion? If 30% of the party have “shifted to the left” what is it you are expecting them to do? You want them to not advocate for positions they believe in? The New York Mag article talks about “ideological labels”. But “labels” are different from “positions.” This poll suggests 70% of people are in favour of [“Medicare for all”.](https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/412545-70-percent-of-americans-support-medicare-for-all-health-care) Polls suggest that many parts of the New Green Deal are very [popular](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/27/opinion/sunday/green-new-deal-mcconnell.html). So is the message behind your OP is that we should reject “labels” and focus on policy? Because I’d be good with that. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/8 "2019-05-13T06:48:43Z")
[off-topic?] Contrary to the line most of the elite has pushed, globalization leads to a downward pressure on U.S. wages — this is a major reason that American workers haven’t benefited from the booms as much as the rich have. Americans sense that and vote for a Perot or Trump who “gets it.” I don’t think protectionism is the answer, but the Ds have to develop some message to attract the economic populists who support Trump. _Jobs, jobs, jobs!_ is the important “progressive” message voters want to hear. Trump is winning that issue (though by lying) and this is where the D’s, both moderate and progressive, need to focus. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/9 "2019-05-13T15:10:38Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > _Jobs, jobs, jobs!_ is the important “progressive” message voters want to hear. Trump is winning that issue (though by lying) and this is where the D’s, both moderate and progressive, need to focus. With unemployment at a low, I don’t think the focus is still on jobs. I think the focus should be on growth in real wages, an area in which Trump’s performance has been at best lackluster. A political ad I’d like to see (but I’m sure I won’t): A date 25 years or so in the future flashes on the screen. Begin with a montage of all the horror that climate change has caused. A little girl, who would be adorable if she wasn’t painfully skinny, says: “Grandpa, how come everything got to be so bad?” Grandfather replies, “Well, honey, your grandma and I got better jobs. For some reason, that’s all we cared about.” ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/10 "2019-05-13T15:54:17Z")
> [@Anny\_Middon](#): > > With unemployment at a low, I don’t think the focus is still on jobs. I think the focus should be on growth in real wages, an area in which Trump’s performance has been at best lackluster. > > A political ad I’d like to see (but I’m sure I won’t): > > A date 25 years or so in the future flashes on the screen. Begin with a montage of all the horror that climate change has caused. A little girl, who would be adorable if she wasn’t painfully skinny, says: “Grandpa, how come everything got to be so bad?” > > Grandfather replies, “Well, honey, your grandma and I got better jobs. For some reason, that’s all we cared about.” Unemployment is low but the jobs are not better. There is worse wealth inequality and those not on the very top side of that have good reason to feel insecure. I think certain groups tend to over-estimate their numbers because the view they see (active in the social media they frequent) are people who share their perspectives. That said many of the mainstream ideas promoted by Democrats were considered “progressive” not too many years ago and the most mainstream Democrats and the most progressive both are wanting to pull in the same (progressive) direction, one opposite than the one Trump and the GOP is pushing. Pragmatic or revolutionary is an issue of tactics and well marketing more than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/11 "2019-05-13T20:53:10Z")
There’s always been a lot of hope that progressives could leverage a major party into getting their agenda passed, but libertarians have also lived under that delusion. Progressives have their party: it’s called the Green Party, or another, the DSA. The Democratic Party is a center-left party and that’s not likely to change anytime soon. Why the media focuses on the few progressives that just got elected rather than the 50 moderates is hopefulness triumphing over reality. AOC doesn’t matter. Seth Moulton matters. Stephanie Murphy matters. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/12 "2019-05-13T21:50:08Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There’s always been a lot of hope that progressives could leverage a major party into getting their agenda passed, but libertarians have also lived under that delusion. Progressives have their party: it’s called the Green Party, or another, the DSA. The Democratic Party is a center-left party and that’s not likely to change anytime soon. Why the media focuses on the few progressives that just got elected rather than the 50 moderates is hopefulness triumphing over reality. AOC doesn’t matter. Seth Moulton matters. Stephanie Murphy matters. …who the fuck is Seth Moulton? Who on earth is Stephanie Murphy? If they “matter” so much how come I haven’t heard of them? This graph says it [all](https://www.axios.com/ocasio-cortez-dominates-twitter-6a997938-b8a5-4a8b-a895-0a1bcd073fea.html). AOC has more interactions on twitter than anyone else in the Democratic party. More than Obama. More than CNN. She is the only person who comes close to Donald Trump in reach. They focus on people like AOC because people are interested in what she has to say. Welcome to the 21st Century. Like it or not this matters. And like it or not America is effectively a “two party system” and if you want to have a hope-in-hell of getting your agenda passed you need to do that under the banner of either the Dems or the Republicans. I don’t hear you complaining that the “Freedom Caucus” have a voice in the Republican Party and that they have power. That’s just how the system works. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/13 "2019-05-13T21:58:18Z")
trumpists are a majority within a party that manages, sometimes even without a plurality of votes, to win elections. But they themselves are only, maybe, 35 to 40 percent of the total population. As a democrat, I’m not sure I’d want us to mirror that scenario. (Except for the winning elections part.) ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/14 "2019-05-13T22:02:52Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I don’t think protectionism is the answer, but the Ds have to develop some message to attract the economic populists who support Trump. No, they don’t. I’m not saying economic populism is bad. A lot of the appeal of AOC & Bernie Sanders is their strong populism. But ‘the economic populists who support Trump’ are not on the table, because they _already have a man in the White House._ You can’t offer to give them power they already have. You\* can\* appeal to the economic populists who support Bernie Sanders; you know, young millennial social democrats, or ‘progressives.’ ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/15 "2019-05-13T22:11:55Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > But they themselves are only, maybe, 35 to 40 percent of the total population. …if we accept the statistics in the article in the OP that “29 percent said socialism is compatible with American values” and if you also accept my cite that said “70% of Americans want medicare for all” I think it would be fair to say that many Americans reject the **label** of “socialism” but would actually embrace “socialism” as long as you don’t call it that. Like how they hated Obamacare but loved the ACA. So I don’t see it as “mirroring the Trumpism scenario” at all. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/16 "2019-05-13T22:53:37Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …who the fuck is Seth Moulton? Who on earth is Stephanie Murphy? If they “matter” so much how come I haven’t heard of them? This graph says it [all](https://www.axios.com/ocasio-cortez-dominates-twitter-6a997938-b8a5-4a8b-a895-0a1bcd073fea.html). AOC has more interactions on twitter than anyone else in the Democratic party. More than Obama. More than CNN. She is the only person who comes close to Donald Trump in reach. They focus on people like AOC because people are interested in what she has to say. Welcome to the 21st Century. Like it or not this matters. Moulton and Murphy have more power within the caucus and will get much more legislation passed. > [@](#): > > And like it or not America is effectively a “two party system” and if you want to have a hope-in-hell of getting your agenda passed you need to do that under the banner of either the Dems or the Republicans. I don’t hear you complaining that the “Freedom Caucus” have a voice in the Republican Party and that they have power. That’s just how the system works. The Freedom Caucus has about as much power as their numbers justify. As does the Progressive Caucus. And the DSAers haven’t even come close to even the Tea Party’s success. All they did was primary some fellow Democrats in blue states and districts. The Tea Party actually won Senate seats in purple states, defeating incumbent Democrats. AOC, Omar, Tlaib, and Pressley haven’t defeated a single Republican incumbent and never will. Meanwhile, Tea Partiers knocked off Russ Feingold. When a progressive candidate takes out Ted Cruz or Tom Cotton I’ll start to be impressed. Heck, beat Cory Gardner without having to use a moderate. I dare you. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/17 "2019-05-13T23:03:51Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Moulton and Murphy have more power within the caucus and will get much more legislation passed. …still haven’t heard of them. Who the fuck are they again? > [@](#): > > The Freedom Caucus has about as much power as their numbers justify. The Freedom Caucus have power disproportionate to their numbers. > [@](#): > > As does the Progressive Caucus. And the DSAers haven’t even come close to even the Tea Party’s success. All they did was primary some fellow Democrats in blue states and districts. The Tea Party actually won Senate seats in purple states, defeating incumbent Democrats. AOC, Omar, Tlaib, and Pressley haven’t defeated a single Republican incumbent and never will. Meanwhile, Tea Partiers knocked off Russ Feingold. So you agree the Progressive Caucus can happily coexist within the Dems and don’t need to quit and join the Greens? Okay then. > [@](#): > > When a progressive candidate takes out Ted Cruz or Tom Cotton I’ll start to be impressed. Heck, beat Cory Gardner without having to use a moderate. I dare you. You dare me? What the fuck are you daring me to do? I’m not an American citizen. I can’t run against Ted Cruz. The center can’t beat Ted Cruz. I’m not sure what your point is. And you’ve shifted the goalposts. We’ve gone from “the Progressives should leave” to “they can’t beat Ted Cruz I dare you” what-ever-the-fuck you mean by that. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/18 "2019-05-13T23:05:50Z")
No, I’ve just noted that progressives are a minority within the Democratic Party and do not get to call the shots. Nor are they being allowed to. You haven’t heard of Moulton and Murphy because they write legislation rather than appear on the cover of Rolling Stone. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/19 "2019-05-13T23:13:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > No, I’ve just noted that progressives are a minority within the Democratic Party and do not get to call the shots. > [@adaher](#): > > There’s always been a lot of hope that progressives could leverage a major party into getting their agenda passed, but libertarians have also lived under that delusion. Progressives have their party: it’s called the Green Party, or another, the DSA. The Democratic Party is a center-left party and that’s not likely to change anytime soon. Why the media focuses on the few progressives that just got elected rather than the 50 moderates is hopefulness triumphing over reality. AOC doesn’t matter. Seth Moulton matters. Stephanie Murphy matters. …you did a bit more than just note that “progressives are a minority within the Democratic Party and do not get to call the shots.” > [@](#): > > Nor are they being allowed to. When some polls suggest that 70% of the American people support Medicare for all then perhaps the Dems should “allow them” to do a bit more than they are. > [@](#): > > You haven’t heard of Moulton and Murphy because they write legislation rather than appear on the cover of Rolling Stone. I haven’t heard of them because they have insignificant social media reach in comparison to someone like AOC. AOC didn’t appear on the cover of Rolling Stone by accident. She knows how to leverage social media to forward her agenda. That’s how things work now. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/20 "2019-05-13T23:19:26Z")
She knows how to leverage social media to forward her brand. On policy, her accomplishments are zilch and that’s not likely to change. As for Medicare For All, Americans love it on two conditions: 1) they get to keep their current insurance, and 2) they don’t have to pay for it. Polling on its actual cost and impact on current health insurance arrangements drops support to much lower levels: > **[Poll: Support for 'Medicare-for-all' fluctuates with details](https://apnews.com/4516833e7fb644c9aa8bcc11048b2169)** > > WASHINGTON (AP) — Americans like the idea of "Medicare-for-all," but support flips to disapproval if it would result in higher taxes or longer waits for care... Almost all of the support for health care reform involves some additions to ACA, not scrapping it in favor of something else entirely. Along with scrapping Medicare as well. You all may call it Medicare, but M4A is MEDICAID, not Medicare. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884.md?page=2)