# Progressives have NOT taken over the Democratic Party **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 13, 2019, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884 "2019-05-13T03:59:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/41 "2019-05-14T03:29:07Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Do you know what Jonathan Chait, Josh Marshall, Bill Moyers, Hendrik Hertberg and Henry Luce have in common? (Besides the fact that I don’t know who the fuck any of them are) There you go again. :smack: Do you think it adds to your credibility to express ignorance about such luminaries? (It does not.) And you seem to have ignored my very first response to you in this thread, in which I tried to explain that “plan” is used in an idiomatic way that you seem determined to misunderstand. I expect most people reading this do understand the idiom, and are annoyed that we are wasting their time even discussing it. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > We are in Great Debates Your perspicacity is truly astounding. 😉 (No, we are in fact not in GD.) ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/42 "2019-05-14T03:48:53Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > There you go again. :smack: Do you think it adds to your credibility to express ignorance about such luminaries? (It does not.) …I’ll let people judge my credibility based on my posts, and I’ll let people judge your credibility on the basis of your posts. I’m sure from the lens of privileged white American men these are important voices in 2019. But there are plenty of other voices that you can listen to now if you choose too. The world isn’t the same as it was 20 years ago. The gatekeepers to opinions have gone. > [@](#): > > And you seem to have ignored my very first response to you in this thread, in which I tried to explain that “plan” is used in an idiomatic way that you seem determined to misunderstand. I expect most people reading this do understand the idiom, and are annoyed that we are wasting their time even discussing it. I didn’t ignore it. I addressed it. People said stuff to you on Facebook and Twitter. Got it. You won’t tell us exactly what they said. Got it. We are not wasting our time “discussing it.” It is what this thread is all about. Its the words in the quote that you highlighted in your OP. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/43 "2019-05-14T03:59:02Z")
I started the thread, and IMO it is not “all about” a tendentious insistence on an overly literal parsing of the meaning of the word “plan”. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/44 "2019-05-14T04:41:51Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I started the thread, and IMO it is not “all about” a tendentious insistence on an overly literal parsing of the meaning of the word “plan”. :rolleyes: …you do realize that if we stop being literal about the OP there is actually nothing left to debate? What do you think the OP is all about? What have I gotten wrong? What is it you would like do discuss? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/45 "2019-05-14T04:56:07Z")
Here’s another example of progressives combining the stubborn insistence that their wing is more popular than it is, with a conspiratorial mindset about the MSM: [https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/05/05/tyts\_john\_iadarola\_cnn\_poll\_showing\_biden\_in\_the\_lead\_sample\_statistically\_insignificant\_number\_of\_voters\_under\_50.html](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/05/05/tyts_john_iadarola_cnn_poll_showing_biden_in_the_lead_sample_statistically_insignificant_number_of_voters_under_50.html) In the opening segment of the latest 538 podcast, they discussed this poll, TYT’s spin on its findings, and Sanders fans’ conspiratorial tendencies going back to 2016: [Politics Podcast: Should Democrats Worry About The Downsides Of Impeaching Trump? | FiveThirtyEight](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/politics-podcast-should-democrats-worry-about-the-downsides-of-impeaching-trump/) I know many of you hate podcasts, so here’s a pull quote from Nate Silver: “First of all, the Young Turks are full of shit about this, and I hope people see that and are curious about why.” (The “why” is motivated reasoning.) ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/46 "2019-05-14T06:07:19Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Here’s another example of progressives combining the stubborn insistence that their wing is more popular than it is, with a conspiratorial mindset about the MSM: > > [TYT's John Iadarola: CNN Poll Showing Biden In The Lead Sampled Statistically Insignificant Number Of Voters Under 50 | Video | RealClearPolitics](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/05/05/tyts_john_iadarola_cnn_poll_showing_biden_in_the_lead_sample_statistically_insignificant_number_of_voters_under_50.html) > > In the opening segment of the latest 538 podcast, they discussed this poll, TYT’s spin on its findings, and Sanders fans’ conspiratorial tendencies going back to 2016: [Politics Podcast: Should Democrats Worry About The Downsides Of Impeaching Trump? | FiveThirtyEight](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/politics-podcast-should-democrats-worry-about-the-downsides-of-impeaching-trump/) > > I know many of you hate podcasts, so here’s a pull quote from Nate Silver: “First of all, the Young Turks are full of shit about this, and I hope people see that and are curious about why.” (The “why” is motivated reasoning.) I started clicking your links, and after a few seconds was disappoined in TYT and the realclear link — I’d almost prefer podcasts over shows like TYT. TYT present a chart provided by the CNN poll, brag about how it’s illegible when TYT’s camera presents it, but tell us Biden’s alleged spurt among the general populace is just because CNN sampled old people. True? Who knows! Who cares!! _Everyone is entitled to their own facts today._ I suppose I could have down a screen-grab on the illegible CNN chart, tried image enhancement software, to see if TYT was misleading me, but Nate Silver had done the work for me… _ **Forty-five minutes!** _ Forty-five with an F. That’s how long the Nate Silver podcast is. And it isn’t even about the CNN poll or debunking TYT — that’s presumably just a minute or three buried somewhere in the podcast. Is the TYT debunking at the 10-minute mark? The 22-minute mark? The 37-minute mark?? Nate Silver’s profits aren’t enough to prepare transcripts of his podcasts??? _ **Who knows! Who cares!** _ I’ll score this as TYT - Zero. Nate Silver - Zero. I’m even tempted to deduct five brownie points from **Slacks** who subjected me to this. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/47 "2019-05-14T06:25:11Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Here’s another example of progressives combining the stubborn insistence that their wing is more popular than it is, with a conspiratorial mindset about the MSM: > > [TYT's John Iadarola: CNN Poll Showing Biden In The Lead Sampled Statistically Insignificant Number Of Voters Under 50 | Video | RealClearPolitics](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/05/05/tyts_john_iadarola_cnn_poll_showing_biden_in_the_lead_sample_statistically_insignificant_number_of_voters_under_50.html) > > In the opening segment of the latest 538 podcast, they discussed this poll, TYT’s spin on its findings, and Sanders fans’ conspiratorial tendencies going back to 2016: [Politics Podcast: Should Democrats Worry About The Downsides Of Impeaching Trump? | FiveThirtyEight](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/politics-podcast-should-democrats-worry-about-the-downsides-of-impeaching-trump/) > > I know many of you hate podcasts, so here’s a pull quote from Nate Silver: “First of all, the Young Turks are full of shit about this, and I hope people see that and are curious about why.” (The “why” is motivated reasoning.) …who is it, do you think, the Young Turks speak for? I’m progressive but I can’t stand Bernie. I’m progressive but I’ve watched the Young Turks exactly once and I’ll never watch them again. You can be progressive and actively oppose Bernie. You can be progressive and support AOC but not support Bernie. The real progressive candidate is Elizabeth Warren. Bernie doesn’t listen to black people. Warren does. And her policies reflect that. So I’m looking at your cite and thinking how does that relate to your OP? I’ve read your (first) cite and I think they are wrong: but so what? If Nate Silver says their analysis is full of shit then I’ll accept its full of shit. Somebody said something wrong on the internet. Whats that got to do with the Democratic Party and your contention that “Progressives have NOT taken over the Democratic Party?” What is it you are trying to say? Can you tie this into what you said in the OP? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/48 "2019-05-15T00:32:48Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > That said, the OP is correct in his title. The progressives have not taken over. That creates an image of some sort of coup. It misses the leftist ideal of being able to convince people rather than having to conquer them. > > What has happened is that more progressive causes have become mainstream–including those that actually deal with the economic hardships people face. The Democratic Party realizes they dropped the ball on those issues last time. > > The main thing is making sure the message does not forget about the working class. And I say just “the working class,” because there is no reason they should be separated by race. Despite Trump’s bluster, only the Dems have actually done anything to help the working (hu)man. The overton window seems to have moved to the left a bit. At least regarding things like health care (the public option is now the conservative option, while it was the liberal option a decade ago and single payer wasn’t even discussed in public back then). The issue with race and the working class is that sadly race is a factor. Whites w/o a college degree have been abandoning the democrats and becoming republican. However the issue isn’t income, its education (538 controlled for income and found there was still a 30-40 point gap between high school vs college educated whites). > **[Even Among The Wealthy, Education Predicts Trump Support](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/even-among-the-wealthy-education-predicts-trump-support/)** > > Last week, my colleague Nate Silver used census data to show that education, not income, determined the shift from Republican to Democratic votes in the 2016 el… But its not even education. Education is a proxy for authoritarianism and bigotry. Supposedly when you control for various forms of prejudice (nativism, racism, sexism, rejection of islam, etc) and also control for authoritarianism, the education gap pretty much disappears. Obama did a lot for the white working class. The stimulus bill saved the economy. He saved the automotive industry, the ACA gave some of them health insurance. But it didn’t seem to help him or the democrats. Democrats need to find a way to appeal to whites w/o a college education, but I don’t know how. Warren talking about a ‘right to repair’ law might be a good first step, but I really don’t know. If the reason rural whites and whites w/o college have been abandoning the democrats is because they reject multiculturalism and the see the democrats as pro-multiculturalism and the GOP as anti-multiculturalism, I don’t know if the democrats can win them back. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/49 "2019-05-15T06:32:39Z")
Septimus, I don’t see how I could have been clearer than “opening segment”. If it had been “buried” for a “minute or two” later in the episode, I would have provided a time to skip to. But in this case, you could have just clicked the link and it would have started playing, maybe after an ad reading or two. ---
**Author:** ![UnwittingAmericans](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d9b06d/32.png) [@UnwittingAmericans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwittingAmericans)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/50 "2019-05-15T11:25:45Z")
Progressives need to differentiate themselves from internet SJWs. That is, if there’s a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/51 "2019-05-15T22:10:18Z")
Yet another example of liberal policy being highly popular. > **[The vast majority of Republicans support Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Bernie...](https://www.businessinsider.com/republicans-love-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-plan-cap-interest-rates-2019-5)** > > Overall, about 68% of respondents said they either support or strongly support the plan, the Loan Shark Prevention Act. > [@](#): > > The vast majority of Republicans support Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Bernie Sanders’ plan to cap credit-card interest rates at 15% Tell me again how liberals are radical because Gingrich made fun of them and now a lot of older people are terrified of the label God forbid a man who abandoned his wife in the hospital as she was dying of cancer calls you names. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/52 "2019-05-15T22:24:58Z")
Sure it’s popular to cap credit card rates. This is one of those low-hanging fruit items, like guaranteeing young adults can be on their parents’ health insurance until age 26. So why’s your screen name “Wesley Clark”, same as the NATO general? ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/53 "2019-05-15T22:27:54Z")
There is a strong progressive wing, there is a strong “traditional liberal” wing. Big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/54 "2019-05-15T23:15:46Z")
> [@UnwittingAmericans](#): > > Progressives need to differentiate themselves from internet SJWs. That is, if there’s a difference. …I’m both a proud progressive and an internet SJW. So in my case no difference at all. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/55 "2019-05-15T23:25:39Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Why do you go by “Wesley Clark”, anyway? 😕 He was like the iconic avatar for the hopes and dreams of moderate/pragmatic Dems. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > So why’s your screen name “Wesley Clark”, same as the NATO general? Not quite sure what this has to do with the thread, but please drop this tangent in this one. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/56 "2019-05-15T23:43:30Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Democrats need to find a way to appeal to whites w/o a college education, but I don’t know how. Warren talking about a ‘right to repair’ law might be a good first step, but I really don’t know. If the reason rural whites and whites w/o college have been abandoning the democrats is because they reject multiculturalism and the see the democrats as pro-multiculturalism and the GOP as anti-multiculturalism, I don’t know if the democrats can win them back. When I was watching a lot of MSM, I used to think it was anti-multiculturalism, but it didn’t make a lot of sense to me. Why should people care about that? If you believe Andrew Yang, the answer is that 4 million jobs were automated away in the swing states, and there’s a direct line between the areas these jobs left and the areas where Trump won. That theory dovetails with Nate Silver’s analysis that I got when I clicked a link in the article you linked. > [@](#): > > Educational attainment may be a better indicator of long-term economic well-being than household incomes. Unionized jobs in the auto industry often pay reasonably well even if they don’t require college degrees, for instance, but they’re also potentially at risk of being shipped overseas or automated. Half of the people who lost their jobs that got automated away didn’t get back into the job market. Of them, half are on disability. [from Yang’s stump speech] The reason they can’t get back into the market is that although there are a surplus of job openings, those jobs generally require a college degree. That’s why so many of the people in those areas have been left behind. Many of the people Yang talks to say that the Democrats have left them behind. Then there are the millions who can see that their jobs are about to be automated away. They will also have a hard time replacing their current jobs at their current salary. That explanation, more than any other I’ve heard, makes more sense to me as to why many white people without a college education voted for Trump. I’m not understanding how the right to repair helps anyone in that demographic, so maybe I’m missing something in that paragraph. Link to article quoted above: [Education, Not Income, Predicted Who Would Vote For Trump | FiveThirtyEight](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/education-not-income-predicted-who-would-vote-for-trump/) ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/57 "2019-05-15T23:54:28Z")
How about we don’t believe Yang and get a cite for 4M jobs being automated away in the swing states? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/58 "2019-05-15T23:59:56Z")
Thats a fair argument and one I’ve heard before. But again various factors come into play: Why are only white people susceptible to this argument? Blacks and latinos lost their jobs due to automation, they aren’t voting for Trump. Black women are one of the most economically insecure demographics out there, but only about 4% of them voted for Trump. Some studies have found it was fear of cultural change, not economic anxiety that predicted Trump support. > **[Fear of losing status, not economic hardship, drove voters in 2016 | Penn Today](https://penntoday.upenn.edu/news/fear-losing-status-not-economic-hardship-drove-voters-2016)** > > Research from Annenberg's Diana Mutz challenges the discourse surrounding voter motivation in the 2016 election: Fears of economic insecurity did not drive voters to the voting booth in support of Donald Trump, as public sentiment has believed. > [@](#): > > The results of the study found that fears of economic insecurity or class underrepresentation did not drive voters to support Donald Trump, as public sentiment has believed. Rather, Mutz’s research concluded that a vote for Trump was a vote to re-establish a status hierarchy that existed before the population grew more diverse. In other words, white voters voted to retain a sense of social dominance, and saw the Republican candidate as a force for U.S. dominance in the global political landscape. > **[A massive new study debunks a widespread theory for Donald Trump’s success](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/08/12/a-massive-new-study-debunks-a-widespread-theory-for-donald-trumps-success/?utm_term=.475accf930d1)** > > We just took a big step toward understanding the Donald Trump phenomenon. 538 does say economic anxiety played a role though. > **[Stop Saying Trump’s Win Had Nothing To Do With Economics](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/stop-saying-trumps-win-had-nothing-to-do-with-economics/)** > > This is In Real Terms, a regular column analyzing the latest economic news. Comments? Criticisms? Ideas for future columns? Email me, or drop a note in the comm… However I think as a society we just aren’t willing to face facts about who we are as Americans. Trump and the GOP are a political movement that reject multiculturalism, support white supremacy and dislike democracy. These aren’t bugs, they are features and are a big factor in their support. The south under Jim Crow was a dictatorship to enforce a white ethnostate, and sadly a lot of Americans want a less intense version of that now to maintain social status. Trump and the GOP reject democracy and support social heirarchies. Right to repair is about farmers. A farmer may buy a tractor but they aren’t allowed to repair it, they have to go to a very expensive dealer to fix it even though they could fix it themselves for much cheaper. The law would save farmers money and let them be more independent. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/59 "2019-05-16T00:06:01Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > I’m not understanding how the right to repair helps anyone in that demographic, so maybe I’m missing something in that paragraph. The place where “right to repair” is a really big issue is with farm equipment. Not being able to fix your own iPhone is a pain in the ass. Being forced by law to take your tractor to a certified John Deere repair shop instead of fixing it yourself (or taking it to a repair shop with competitive prices) can make the difference between your farm turning a profit or not. Not sure if it’s a big enough issue to swing a whole demographic, but it’s a start. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884/60 "2019-05-16T00:36:38Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Why are only white people susceptible to this argument? Blacks and latinos lost their jobs due to automation, they aren’t voting for Trump. Black women are one of the most economically insecure demographics out there, but only about 4% of them voted for Trump. I’m not sure that’s entirely true. From that same Nate Silver article I linked, he notes that Trump also gained with Latinos and African Americans without a college education in some areas. > [@](#): > > By contrast, Clinton struggled (relatively speaking) in majority-minority communities with lower education levels. Among the 19 majority-minority countries where 15 percent or less of the population has a bachelor’s degree, she won by an average of only 7 percentage points, less than Obama’s 10-point average margin of victory in 2012. We need to be slightly careful here because of the potential ecological fallacy — it’s not clear if minority voters shifted away from Clinton in these counties or if the white voters who live there did. Still, Trump probably gained overall among Latino and black voters compared to Romney, and it’s worth investigating divisions within those communities instead of treating their votes as monolithic. The automation argument doesn’t apply to all people who are minorities. It only applies to people in those areas affected who don’t have a college education. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Some studies have found it was fear of cultural change, not economic anxiety that predicted Trump support. > > [Fear of losing status, not economic hardship, drove voters in 2016 | Penn Today](https://penntoday.upenn.edu/news/fear-losing-status-not-economic-hardship-drove-voters-2016) I’ve read a lot of articles about the fear of cultural change also. Some of them weren’t even about whites. Some of them were saying that it was about what it means to be American. Fareed Zacharias was claiming that America may have been changing too fast for the comfort of some. There were even some studies that showed that Republicans were just anxious people and were more averse to change than others. Maybe. But as I watch the Yang campaign, I see in rallies and online, people claiming to change from Trump supporters to Yang supporters. I realize this is just anecdotal and a really too small sample, but I’m less convinced about the fear of cultural change argument as an overarching reason, as I read their stories. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > However I think as a society we just aren’t willing to face facts about who we are as Americans. Trump and the GOP are a political movement that reject multiculturalism, support white supremacy and dislike democracy. These aren’t bugs, they are features and are a big factor in their support. The south under Jim Crow was a dictatorship to enforce a white ethnostate, and sadly a lot of Americans want a less intense version of that now to maintain social status. Trump and the GOP reject democracy and support social heirarchies. The other reason I’m less willing to accept this theory wholesale is that there’s no way to bridge the divide from that angle. And there are people who profit from dividing people. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Right to repair is about farmers. A farmer may buy a tractor but they aren’t allowed to repair it, they have to go to a very expensive dealer to fix it even though they could fix it themselves for much cheaper. The law would save farmers money and let them be more independent. Thanks. I’m not sure that will do much to change the plight of enough people without college educations, but I think I understand where you were going with it. Hopefully, that proposed legislation will help everyone who can’t afford to buy new things or pay someone to repair the old. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/progressives-have-not-taken-over-the-democratic-party/833884.md?page=4)