# Prohibition (Ken Burns) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** documentary-bio\ **Created:** [May 28, 2022, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prohibition-ken-burns/965275 "2022-05-28T23:47:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prohibition-ken-burns/965275/21 "2022-05-29T23:07:46Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The suppliers of alcohol didn’t run background checks on their customers. If you said you were a rabbi, and you were legally allowed to sell wine to rabbis, then they took you at your word. 😉 The ingenuity of people in obtaining alcohol is hard to over estimate. A legend here in Arizona relates that right around 1900 selling alcohol to native Americans was prohibited. A shopkeeper started selling potatoes for $1 each, and you were given a free pint of whiskey with each purchase. Everything went fine for a couple days until he ran out of potatoes. The natives brought their potatoes back and gave them to him. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prohibition-ken-burns/965275/22 "2022-05-29T23:28:50Z")
Some bars sold saltines at fancy prices that included free drinks. If there is demand for alcohol, someone will find a way to supply it. Although cider can only be made when there is available fruit, it can be made to keep a long time, no? If so, demand for other drinks was probably greater. Price for grapes went up something like twenty times in value. A radio comedy show said there is a current TV show supposedly about backwoods moonshiners pretending to evade the law recently. The show claimed the premise made no sense as their activities were basically legal and it was the usual reality show fakery. Haven’t seen the show. Maybe it isn’t on anymore. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prohibition-ken-burns/965275/23 "2022-05-29T23:33:00Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > A radio comedy show said there is a current TV show supposedly about backwoods moonshiners pretending to evade the law recently. The show claimed the premise made no sense as their activities were basically legal and it was the usual reality show fakery. Haven’t seen the show. Maybe it isn’t on anymore. It’s called (unimaginatively, but descriptively) “Moonshiners.” It’s had 11 seasons on Discovery Channel here in the U.S., and has had new episodes air as recently as this past March, so it may well still be “in production.” The Wikipedia article also notes the alleged lack of actual illegal activity depicted in the show. > **[Moonshiners (TV series)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonshiners_(TV_series))** > > Moonshiners is an American docudrama television series on the Discovery Channel produced by Magilla Entertainment that dramatizes the life of people who produce (illegal) moonshine in the Appalachian Mountains of Kentucky, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Virginia. The series dramatizes their liquor production efforts, law-evading techniques and life. > There have been claims by local officials that the show is not what it portrays itself to be. Virginia authorities have stated tha ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prohibition-ken-burns/965275/24 "2022-05-29T23:37:57Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > The ingenuity of people in obtaining alcohol is hard to over estimate. [https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/raines-sandwich#:~:text=Generally%20speaking%2C%20the%20sandwich%20was,it%20was%20made%20of%20rubber](https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/raines-sandwich#:~:text=Generally%20speaking%2C%20the%20sandwich%20was,it%20was%20made%20of%20rubber). ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prohibition-ken-burns/965275/25 "2022-05-29T23:47:42Z")
A while back, I read a commentary about divorce that was written in the 1920s, and it said that (as is true now) most divorces are initiated by the wife, but unlike now, the most common grounds was desertion. It also added that in many, if not most, of those cases, she wasn’t sorry he left, because he was abusive and this was usually catalyzed by alcoholism. IIRC, quite a few of them had no idea where he was, and really didn’t want to know, but they had met another man in the meantime and wanted to be free to marry him. At some time in the 00s, I was sitting with a group of elderly women at my church, and they were talking about how it used to be such a disgrace to be a divorced woman, and nowadays, when a woman announces she’s leaving a marriage, people basically throw confetti at her and they even have “Divorce parties” in some cases. I asked them what their observations were about divorced men, and they all stared at each other and one of them finally said, “I don’t remember that society had an opinion about them, or that it was supposed to.” Hmmmmm… I do think it was here that I told the above story, and someone replied that had Adlai Stevenson not been divorced, he would probably have been elected president in 1952. I have also referred people who thought there was no drug or addiction problem “back then” to the “Prohibition” mini-series. If anything, it was probably worse than it is now, just in different ways. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prohibition-ken-burns/965275/26 "2022-05-29T23:53:17Z")
Okrent’s book is very good and expands on everything in the series, since he was basically the writer of the series as well. It’s been over a decade but I’ll bet all of the OP’s questions are answered in it. As a reader, I remember thinking that it’s main limitation was that Okrent tried to stuff huge amounts of history that he knew his audience wasn’t going to be as interested in, so it’s not as deep as some of the issues. That got me going on to other books on the subject. In particular, Okrent takes a whole lot of information from [Dry Manhattan: Prohibition in New York City by Michael A. Lerner](https://www.amazon.com/Dry-Manhattan-Prohibition-York-City/dp/067402432X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=7210O0QG4LJX&keywords=Dry+Manhattan%3A+Prohibition+in+New+York+City+by+Michael+A.+Lerner&qid=1653867661&sprefix=dry+manhattan+prohibition+in+new+york+city+by+michael+a.+lerner%2Caps%2C821&sr=8-1). ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prohibition-ken-burns/965275/27 "2022-05-30T00:06:43Z")
Yeah, it’s a very light and accessible history. I thought he did a good job describing the rural/urban divide at the heart of prohibition and how anti-immigrant sentiment and their drinking (Catholics and Jewish mostly) led to an alliance between women’s Terrance movements and the Klan to enforce the alcohol ban. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prohibition-ken-burns/965275/28 "2022-05-30T00:12:59Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > women’s Terrance movements Yes, [Terrance](https://hotblackmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/terrance-wright.html) is extremely handsome. Sorry. I know that was just a typo, but it was too good to pass up. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prohibition-ken-burns/965275/29 "2022-05-30T00:15:48Z")
D’oh! ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prohibition-ken-burns/965275/30 "2022-05-30T00:23:20Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > OT: but have you read Nine Innings by him? If you’re a baseball nerd, it’s required reading. While I know that Okrent has written extensively on other topics, I always associate him with baseball; he invented “Rotisserie League Baseball,” which was likely the originator of modern fantasy baseball. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prohibition-ken-burns/965275/31 "2022-05-30T00:26:39Z")
Nine Innings is the story of a single baseball game, written as a novel. Each inning is a chapter. The game was a forgettable mid summer game between, I think the Orioles and Brewers, it’s fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prohibition-ken-burns/965275/32 "2022-05-30T00:57:01Z")
Another trivia tidbit offered was bars used to give away “free lunches” of salty salami, sardines and other salty snacks to encourage drinking. A few places have peanuts or chips. But even before Covid, I don’t remember seeing them since I was a student in Quebec, where supposedly some type of food HAD to be offered with drinks under certain circumstances. That is, when was the last time you saw a “free lunch” offered? Is it legal? Why did the infamous Peel Pub have to offer food - was this just before a certain time of day? ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prohibition-ken-burns/965275/33 "2022-05-30T01:50:54Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I have also referred people who thought there was no drug or addiction problem “back then” to the “Prohibition” mini-series. If anything, it was probably worse than it is now, just in different ways. To build on this point– My family has lots of old books. One of them is a novel published in (I think) the 1880’s. The protagonist got trampled by a horse, or some such thing (it’s been a long time since I’ve read it). While in the hospital, he got addicted to morphine. Most of the novel is about his struggles with his addition, and how it affected his family. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prohibition-ken-burns/965275/34 "2022-05-30T01:56:55Z")
Your story doesn’t add up. Addiction is better recognized today. But even in the 50s three hour business lunches were said to be commonplace, and people ignored but did not make a big deal about the executive everyone knew to avoid on Friday afternoons (according to an older business book, _Managing_, I enjoyed). ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prohibition-ken-burns/965275/35 "2022-05-30T02:08:46Z")
_Long Day’s Journey into Night_ isn’t as familiar to modern mass audiences as, say, _Game of Thrones,_ but it had a realistic depiction of drug addiction in 1912. Readily available opiates, poisonous medicines, dangerous alcoholic beverages, tertiary syphilis, grief from multiple forms of everyday lethality, stress from boom and bust economics. Life was awful. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prohibition-ken-burns/965275/36 "2022-05-30T02:35:48Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > That is, when was the last time you saw a “free lunch” offered? The Depression killed it. The lunch was worth much more than the price of a drink; it was offered solely because of the presumption - probably a good one - that people would buy many drinks. It was an early version of what today is called a “loss leader”. Get customers in and keep them there. A marketing axiom is that the longer people stay in a store the more money they spend. Today’s world has happy hours instead. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prohibition-ken-burns/965275/37 "2022-05-30T02:47:10Z")
One of the peripheral characters in “To Kill A Mockingbird” is a morphine addict. When I was at community college in the late 1980s, we had to write an opinion paper about a social issue (abortion excluded for obvious reasons) and one of my classmates chose drug addiction. Just the nominal research she needed to do for that paper taught her that it was not a new problem, which was surprising to her. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prohibition-ken-burns/965275/38 "2022-05-30T06:21:57Z")
Well one thing prohibition did was change the social drinking scene from saloon and "dancehall"s types of places to nightclubs and the modern dance clubs molded after the speakeasies and made “going out for a drink” more acceptable And no prohibition and the jazz age didn’t decrease the divorce rates in fact many magazines and journals complained it actually increased them ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prohibition-ken-burns/965275/39 "2022-05-30T08:12:15Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > 1. Has anything similar happened in other countries than the US? Where booze was available, outlawed and restored? … Australian states enforced 6 pm closing of pubs and bars during the First World War, as a war workforce measure. This was only reversed after the Second World War. Early closing led to the phenomenon of the six o’clock swill, where men knocking off work at 5 had an hour to ingest as much beer as possible [wine and spirits were not common boozing drinks here in the 20th century]. Bars were extended to deal with the crush, and the walls of pubs were tiled to deal with the vomitory consequences. We’ve never had Prohibition in the US sense. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prohibition-ken-burns/965275/40 "2022-05-30T11:35:16Z")
Beat me to this observation. I suspect that Okrent was the primary author of the league’s annual preview/player rankings book, which was always very funny. Also, ditto on his prohibition book; it was a great read. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prohibition-ken-burns/965275.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prohibition-ken-burns/965275.md?page=3)